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2017 Navigator

20K views 84 replies 15 participants last post by  germeezy1 
#1 ·
Since I only had the Navigator for a few days this will be a very short review. It was a black on black SWB Navigator base model with RWD. Only option as far as I could tell was the sunroof. Even then it was still loaded. Heated/Cooled front seats, memory seats, Navigation, power tilt and telescope steering wheel, remote start, Lincoln welcome mat, power folding mirrors, tri zone climate, power folding 3rd row, power running boards, rain sensing wipers, HID headlamps with adaptive turning etc. I cannot stress enough how much fun the EB V6 motor was. Sure it’s no V8 but the power was almost instant and it was almost scary how fast it accelerated. I have never driving a large vehicle that could accelerate as quickly as this Navigator could. But then again I have never driven an Escalade either only rode in several.
There was definitely this fun factor with it though steering that was very lose and had almost no feedback, lots of power, and a long hood. This is probably Lincoln’s only model in the lineup that represents the old land yachts that they made their name on. Of course I had to take some co-workers out for lunch with it and they all loved it especially the Lincoln welcome mat and power running boards. They loved how the 3rd row even had room and it was still the SWB model. Backing into my spot wasn’t too bad but it certainly took a lot of wheel spinning to center on the parking spot, thank God for power steering! Before taking this vehicle as my loaner I would say I could never own a vehicle like a Navigator or Escalade but after just one day I am starting to get it. The high seating position, gobs of power, people moving out of the way for you, celebrity like appearance when arriving anywhere.
Likes:
EB Motor has lots of power and delivers almost instantly
6 speed auto had very quick shifts and was always in the right gear
Lots of room overall and 3rd row was still usable even in SWB model
Lots of standard features on base model
THX sound system is simply amazing

Neutral:
Styling is pretty ‘meh’ on the front end I don’t think the split grill works on such a large vehicle
LED tail lamps are nice but would like a smoother look like the MKX instead of the little ‘beads’
Interior materials were great in some spots like the arm rest and window sill but meh in other areas like around the glove box. Wood trim was very nice and is real but also looks real.

Dislikes:
Shifter is large and heavy, fine for a mainstream pickup or SUV but for a luxury one it needs the push buttons
No footrest left of the pedals, felt weird that I had nowhere to rest my foot even our old Ford E150 conversion van had one.
Door locks were from the 90s and looked out of place

Other thoughts:
The radio station was preset to old school rap I never touched it, seemed fitting
Totally shocked I managed to fit it in my garage overnight with absolutely 0 room for error!











Also I apologize I didn’t get more and better pictures I sadly didn’t have time
 
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#3 ·
Extremely smooth I was able to 'glide' over the speed bumps at my office parking lot.
 
#4 ·
Thanks for the review! Good to hear that such an old vehicle still is nice and still has redeeming qualities.....the refresh certainly helped in that regard.

I'm definitely excited to see the production 2018 model to see how much of a leap it will be.
 
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#5 ·
The refresh did help a lot and now I see why the price was bumped up so much because a ton is standard now. That being said a lot of work still needs to be done like the interior materials and a lot of lacking features like 360 cam, 2nd row cooled seats, 2nd row fridge, self parking, radar cruise, pano roof, all things that are on the MKT. I think the new Navi will address these things personally and I am curious how GM will counter it.
 
#7 ·
I've often wondered how many people buy SUVs without checking to see if it will fit in their garage ... LOL!

Nice write-up review, Andrew. I'm glad to see that you seemed to enjoy this overall, even if it isn't what you'd actually buy. I, too, don't think I'd ever be able to buy such a huge SUV, but I'm glad to know the option is there, should my beloved sedans need a replacement. ;)

I don't think I've ever liked the Navigator grill, this edition especially. I agree it doesn't work. Tho, I'm not really sure what WOULD....

My initial reaction when I read your note about the lack of foot rest: how could it NOT have that? Not like it doesn't have the space for it! I always thought that was "standard"......lol.


Cort, www.oldcarsstronghearts.com
pig&cowValves.paceMaker * 1979 CC to 2003 MGM + 81mc
"A concrete fascination scraping the edge of nothing" | White Zombie | 'Black Sunshine'
 
#8 ·
I've often wondered how many people buy SUVs without checking to see if it will fit in their garage ... LOL!

Nice write-up review, Andrew. I'm glad to see that you seemed to enjoy this overall, even if it isn't what you'd actually buy. I, too, don't think I'd ever be able to buy such a huge SUV, but I'm glad to know the option is there, should my beloved sedans need a replacement. ;)

I don't think I've ever liked the Navigator grill, this edition especially. I agree it doesn't work. Tho, I'm not really sure what WOULD....

My initial reaction when I read your note about the lack of foot rest: how could it NOT have that? Not like it doesn't have the space for it! I always thought that was "standard"......lol.


Cort, www.oldcarsstronghearts.com
pig&cowValves.paceMaker * 1979 CC to 2003 MGM + 81mc
"A concrete fascination scraping the edge of nothing" | White Zombie | 'Black Sunshine'
Yea every vehicle I have driven has had a foot rest on the left side which really threw me off. I guess if you want to stretch your legs there's plenty of room! lol
 
#12 ·
I guess it's worth noting that higher trim models get a leather stitched dash while the base model what I had, has a vinyl dash which is totally insane to me. They ALL should have the leather dash.

 
#13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by
2b2
a $urprise while swiping info from VolvoCars.com
XC90 Excellence ... starting at $104,900 MSRP

OUR IDEA OF LUXURY Second row, first class
The XC90 Excellence introduces two lavishly-appointed individual seats in the rear, as well as the front. Rewarding you with a first class environment for both you and your fellow passengers enjoyment.

the $urprise being
this version of the SMALLER XC90 >>> STARTS at OVER $100k

 
#14 ·
its crazy how theres a good amount of european mid sized trucks that can be optioned up past 100k, like wat makes them 100k when they start at 50k. I noticed that one day when i took my truck to the shop that the current navis have different dashboards as materials go. i guess its to justify payin 77k over 67k
 
#15 · (Edited)
The next Navigator will almost certainly break $100K. The Continental is already near $80K.

The current Navigator is surprisingly attractive on the road, I think it's those sharply creases lines and smooth seamless finishes that help to keep it modern. The interior is pretty awful, nothing dates it more than what's went on in there 10+ years ago and even then it looked terrible. But despite the neglect and terrible design choices, it has some substantive advantages over the much better looking Escalade.
 
#17 ·
Before I said no way so I was curious and I stick to that

LX 89,380-93,720
QX80 63,850-92,258
Navigator 63,515-83,074
Escalade 73,395-102,925

Escalade is the only one to demand over 100k maxed out. Navigator has a ways to go before it can demand that.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew L
Before I said no way so I was curious and I stick to that...

think I'll wait/withhold judgements for 2 weeks :joyous:...
otoh
I hope the Navi's base/bait'n'switch price does NOT go up much
:angel

furthermore...
I compared GM's big suvs to an Expedition at our last dealer-run autoshowlet
the GM's are GARBAGE except for the front seats
and imho that ^^^ is being polite
>:)
 
#25 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew L
Before I said no way so I was curious and I stick to that...


otoh
I hope the Navi's base/bait'n'switch price does NOT go up much
:angel

furthermore...
I compared GM's big suvs to an Expedition at our last dealer-run autoshowlet
the GM's are GARBAGE except for the front seats
and imho that ^^^ is being polite
>:)
I think we'll see Navigator get closer to a $70K base price. It's currently at $63, while Escalade is at $73. We could perhaps see it settle around $67 or so....that'd be my guess.

I got to see the 2018 Expedition at the auto show last weekend (it was a pleasant surprise to see it there, as it's a smaller show). It looked great! And that bodes well for the Navigator.

The Navigator unfortunately is seen as a distant 3rd or 4th in its class. It simply does not have the nameplate or brand image that even the late bloomer Infiniti has. So Lincoln truly needs to pull out all the stops in order to regain parity in the class it created. Also all players in this class will move upmarket as the Bentayga, Urus, Levante, and Cullinan begin to gain traction in the rarified air SUV classes.


Given excellence in this generation there is no reason that an individual airplane rear seat LWB Cartier edition Navigator won't be able to move significantly upmarket yet still undercut tangential competitors like the current $200k Range Rover Autobiography LWB.
I get that Navigator has been neglected, but to say it doesn't have the nameplate or brand image of the Infiniti? Come on. If there's been one vehicle in Lincoln's lineup that has had some credibility/image, it's been the Navigator. Sales are so low obviously because it's been neglected for so long. That's obviously being fixed by the end of the year (when it goes on sale).
 
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#20 ·
The Navigator unfortunately is seen as a distant 3rd or 4th in its class. It simply does not have the nameplate or brand image that even the late bloomer Infiniti has. So Lincoln truly needs to pull out all the stops in order to regain parity in the class it created. Also all players in this class will move upmarket as the Bentayga, Urus, Levante, and Cullinan begin to gain traction in the rarified air SUV classes.


Given excellence in this generation there is no reason that an individual airplane rear seat LWB Cartier edition Navigator won't be able to move significantly upmarket yet still undercut tangential competitors like the current $200k Range Rover Autobiography LWB.
 
#21 ·
I don't think the customers for Navigator and Escalade are similar to those shopping for Land Rovers or other exotic global luxury SUVs which are seen as more fashionable or exclusive. The Navigator and Escalade are essentially land yachts built around pickup trucks. The next Navigator certainly sounds substantially more sophisticated than the ridiculously primitive and overpriced Escalade, but it's still conspicuously enormous compared to everything else. So it's really best to see these two as a subset of luxury SUVs which is good because they have their own customers. The only problem with these vehicles is that the customers seem to be finite and cyclical, the growth potential is limited and once pent-up demand is met for their small customer base, sales tend to drop. It'll be interesting to see if Navigator can grab a more significant portion of that market sustainably.
 
#23 ·
The Navigator/Escalade are definitely cross shopped with the Land Rover. The only SUV I'd say is out of range is the Bentley Bentayga even then, a customer thinking about purchasing that luxury sport utility vehicle probably will look at other options too. The new Black Label Navigators have a real opportunity to push ahead of the competition and once again lead the segment.
 
#22 ·
Assimilator,


I personally owned a Range Rover, and an Escalade so they are definitely cross shopped. The two are definitely crossed shop, and keep in mind that the Autobiography editions are at the top of the range pun intended. Truth be told it is the Navigator which is the bargain buy of the segment, and quite frankly the price delta in most markets including what I was offered was nearing $20,000 yet I as well as many others chose the Escalade.


Knowing where the Navigator is today is very important for the future of the Navigator, and I believe the show car reflects the fact that Lincoln fully understands the current SUVs precarious position in this class.
 
#24 ·
The Navigator and Escalade both lack on some major feature that their smaller siblings offer. This is a real opportunity to push the Navigator on features to set it apart and market as a "step up".
 
#26 ·
rmc523 said:
2b2 said:
otoh
I hope the Navi's base/bait'n'switch price does NOT go up much

furthermore...
I compared GM's big suvs to an (2017) Expedition at our last dealer-run autoshowlet
the GM's are GARBAGE except for the front seats
and imho that ^^^ is being polite
I think we'll see Navigator get closer to a $70K base price. It's currently at $63, while Escalade is at $73. We could perhaps see it settle around $67 or so....that'd be my guess.

I got to see the 2018 Expedition at the auto show last weekend (it was a pleasant surprise to see it there, as it's a smaller show). It looked great! And that bodes well for the Navigator...
wanted to pointout the Expy I saw (so much better than the Escalade) was NOT the new one
&
ASK: if we know the new'luminum 2018 Expy's price (increase) yet?
< not fully awake
 
#27 ·
wanted to pointout the Expy I saw (so much better than the Escalade) was NOT the new one
&
ASK: if we know the new'luminum 2018 Expy's price (increase) yet?
< not fully awake
No, Ford hasn't announced that yet. We'll probably get that in a few months closer to launch in the fall.
 
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#28 ·
I would like to see them reestablish the Navigator in the market , and then slowly push upmarket with Black Label designer editions culminating with a LWB Cartier edition with the full Raptor Spec Gen 2 3.5 EB. It could feature a rear compartment unrivaled by anything shy of the $200,000 Range Rover Autobiography LWB , and still be amazingly profitable at $120,000.
 
#29 ·
My guess is that Lincoln took the lead on the design of the body since the Expedition has some obvious Lincoln Continental design traits, including the flanged wheel arches. Not to mention the very smooth body lines, no aggressive or two-toned body cladding and bulging wheel arches that Ford favors. The fascia cutouts in the fenders also prioritize the Navigator design which is why you get some strange shapes out of the Expedition's taillights and other details that don't really match Ford's SUV/Truck motif until you you get to to the fascias themselves. I think the Expedition looks great but I'm just not a fan of the parts-binning going on with the interior, the aging and utilitarian F-150 dashboard really clashes with the high-end design surrounding it.
 
#32 ·
Oh definitely Navigator took the design lead, while Expy followed, much like how the Escalade led design on the current crop of GM SUVs.

I do agree to an extent with the Expedition's interior, however, I fully understand why, and they did make efforts to spruce it up. At the volumes they're selling, it's far more cost effective for them to share dashboards. Frankly, if the F-150 hadn't become so boxy/truck oriented, we likely would've seen them go back to the '97-'02 tactic of sharing front ends. But they obviously realized that wasn't going to succeed in the market.

Also I can assure you that the Escalade is literally worth every last dime of the $20,000 delta between it, and the current Navigator. Yes some of the advantages are intangible but the difference in road presence alone is staggering. If Lincoln can convey the visual drama of the show Navigator into production it will go a long way towards bringing back to parity the road presence in comparison to the Escalade.


When the 1998 Navigator debuted it offered road presence that even the Range Rover ( P38A ) of the time struggled to match, and offered a gravitas that was sorely missing in many luxury products of the time.
Yeah, we all know Navigator is severely limited by its' 2003 roots.

Maybe I'm jaded by current levels of differentiation, but I don't see how/why Navigator was so special when it debuted. They added a new front clip, a different rear hatch, and a couple of wood strips and a clock on the Expedition's interior and that was it. Certainly a better effort than the first Escalade, though.
 
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#31 ·
Also I can assure you that the Escalade is literally worth every last dime of the $20,000 delta between it, and the current Navigator. Yes some of the advantages are intangible but the difference in road presence alone is staggering. If Lincoln can convey the visual drama of the show Navigator into production it will go a long way towards bringing back to parity the road presence in comparison to the Escalade.


When the 1998 Navigator debuted it offered road presence that even the Range Rover ( P38A ) of the time struggled to match, and offered a gravitas that was sorely missing in many luxury products of the time.
 
#35 ·
I lived in Detroit during the time of the Navigator reveal, and I can assure you it was a monumental debut. Lincoln was already battling with Cadillac for number one, and the Navigator became the poster child of 90s wretched excess. At that time there was literally no such thing as a full size luxury SUV, and the Navigator was not only first but also very desirable. It felt far more upscale, and had far more gravitas than the Expedition.
 
#38 · (Edited)
I beg to differ a little on the current cross shopping of Navigator and other large Utilities.

From what I see, the Navigator has become the default "Town Car" for airport taxis,
something that was brought about by the miserable failure of MKT. While some
of Lincoln's retail customers are sticking with the weary warrior, it's pretty obvious
that the livery patronage has given the refresh a big thumbs up.

With the resurgence of the NG Navigator in Q4 later this year, I think it's vital that
'Ford do something about MKT to make it more attractive (Aviator where are you?)
to take over some of the load from those Liveries and allow retail buyers to see this
new Navigator as more like the Escalade or even the Range Rover.

Cohesion with the showroom means a certain push - pull and its time for Ford to
make good on both Navigator and the Aviator if indeed Lincoln wants to transition
away from just doing what's easy and really reach upwards....if Ford wants to elevate
navigator to higher ground then it has to build a bridge with a vehicle in between the
MKX and the new larger Navigator....does this mean an MKX -L, add 5" for LWB?

The change from this so out of date Navigator is going to be a massive contrast and
like some here, I wonder what Ford pricing will be. We know that the Expedition
has grown in size and length, it follows that the Navigator and navigator L will
also become much larger - that is a great way to play to the luxury buyer and
offer them a different, unique experience compared to say, Escalade
 
#39 ·
The Expedition is the new Navigator, we already have the answer on the vehicle size.

Lincoln is really made up of sub-brands, Navigator is one of them. People who buy Navigators probably don't buy any other Lincoln and I don't think that's going to change. That might be true of Continental as well although I think the primary buyer of Continental is traditional Lincoln customers while the Navigator attracts more non-Lincoln customers. Lincoln might want to start with Navigator, and work their way down. They could certainly use a larger crossover/SUV between MKX and Navigator and the MKT certainly missed the mark there both in design and packaging.

Part of Lincoln's livery market will most likely move to the Continental, although I hope their fleet market isn't driving their product decisions.
 
#40 ·
^^ & ^
I've made many rants and quite a few chops about an IMMEDIATE mk replacement using several diff partsbin solutions...

...now I'm wondering if they need to do that^ beyond the AllNew Aviator?

keeping the hodgepodge version around as livery after the higher-priced, retail-only Aviator FINALLY gets here?
aswellas to preserve the prestige of the aluNavi?
:toetap:
...actually thinking they could eventually be on the same architecture just the livery would look 'institutionalized'
:angel
 
#41 ·
Maybe the need for a Flex/MKT has more to do with the big 7-passenger wagons they are. Many elderly/overweight people have a hard time climbing into and falling out of taller SUVs like Explorer, Expedition, Navigator. And a new Flex/MKT, like the new 7-passenger Audi Q7 Wagon would also do well in China.
 
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