1 thing about ford which pisses me off! [Archive] - Ford Inside News Community

: 1 thing about ford which pisses me off!


FordRules
12-16-2007, 05:14 PM
Is that they dont redesign cars, they give them a Large re-fresh, but the last time Ford had a total Redesign was with the F150 and Mustang.

Some of Fords cars are still based on 10+ years old platforms.

Like The Escape, its just a big refresh, sure they changed a lot, but it still is based of the old Mazda Protege. And the Focus, its not completely new either. The Super Duty came out in 1999, and it still is almost the same truck. The Chevy trucks came out in 1999, and they had a 100% new design for 07.


It seems that ford just never really redesigns stuff, like other companies. Look at the fusion, its getting a refresh too in 2009 ish. It will probably sell like that until like 2013. Unlike the Accord, which came out in 2003, and 5 years later they give it a total redesign.

If Ford needs to sell more cars, they seriously need to start redesigning, and not making a half-assed effort and refreshing stuff.

wingsnut
12-16-2007, 09:00 PM
2008 will bring brand new products, new powertrains and many freshenings.
Do you really think that Fusion should be all new already? Geez.

MERCURYSABLE08
12-17-2007, 01:27 PM
1 thing about Ford which pisses me off is

That Ford is doing nothing to help the Mercury Brand become the thriving Automotive Division that it once was. They are just letting it wither away.

igor
12-17-2007, 01:47 PM
1) The Gm trucks have new CABIN - but unlike Ford, the frame is NOT all new - Ford's is.

20 look at Toyota - the Camry is going on 15 years, and Corolla on 17 IIRC. Honda regularly uses platform for 12-14 (2 model cycles) years before replacing them completely. Do not even get me started on Nissan or Subaru (do you think the Altima and Murano really are all new? BS Or the Imprezza and Forester? again BS - new re-skinned, new interior and done. )

Technology changes, but not that much - 4 years for a good platform is a WASTE so is 7 years ... well designed platform needs minor tweaks after 7 years and can go on for another 7.

Ford was in the middle of product plan shuffle .. stuff like Escape and Focus were the victim ... that was not Ford operating systematically. Fusin is 4 years young and getting extensive refresh. new all new one (on EUCD) will debut 6-7 years after original introduction.

Escape will be all new in about 1.5 years .. yes, late, but Ford is finally re-starting its system.

Igor

SobeSVT
12-17-2007, 02:17 PM
1) The Gm trucks have new CABIN - but unlike Ford, the frame is NOT all new - Ford's is.

20 look at Toyota - the Camry is going on 15 years, and Corolla on 17 IIRC. Honda regularly uses platform for 12-14 (2 model cycles) years before replacing them completely. Do not even get me started on Nissan or Subaru (do you think the Altima and Murano really are all new? BS Or the Imprezza and Forester? again BS - new re-skinned, new interior and done. )

Technology changes, but not that much - 4 years for a good platform is a WASTE so is 7 years ... well designed platform needs minor tweaks after 7 years and can go on for another 7.

Ford was in the middle of product plan shuffle .. stuff like Escape and Focus were the victim ... that was not Ford operating systematically. Fusin is 4 years young and getting extensive refresh. new all new one (on EUCD) will debut 6-7 years after original introduction.

Escape will be all new in about 1.5 years .. yes, late, but Ford is finally re-starting its system.

Igor
You took the words right of my mouth.

1 thing about Ford which pisses me off though, is that they haven't been able to convey their so called "fans" all of what you said above.

FordRules
12-18-2007, 01:17 AM
1) The Gm trucks have new CABIN - but unlike Ford, the frame is NOT all new - Ford's is.


No, it got an all new platform. Everything on it is new

SobeSVT
12-18-2007, 02:29 PM
No, it got an all new platform. Everything on it is new
Nope. Wrongy, wrongy. the GMT-900 are based on the GMT-800s.

Mbukukanyau
12-18-2007, 03:24 PM
GMT 900's are all new, the Heavy Duty wll be on a new GMT 900 Chassis in 2009,
In Fords defence, the F150, is still pretty new. Newer than the GMT 800, so it has another three years. If GM upgrades the GT900 in another 4 years, ford will be completely outclassed

wingsnut
12-18-2007, 04:07 PM
GMT 900's are all new, the Heavy Duty wll be on a new GMT 900 Chassis in 2009,
In Fords defence, the F150, is still pretty new. Newer than the GMT 800, so it has another three years. If GM upgrades the GT900 in another 4 years, ford will be completely outclassed


"If" GM upgrades in another 4 years Ford will be completely outclassed you say?

What about the fact that Ford is HEAVILY upgrading it's fram, suspension, powertrain, interior, etc, in about 10 months. Who will be outclassed then?

Mbukukanyau
12-18-2007, 04:27 PM
Wings, the GMT900's are new, Ford's is an old frame!! with upgrades.
Powertrains I would say, GM is still as good if not better than Ford. Until the F150 is on an all new Frame, GM is ahead.
I know you have passion for F150, but what ford is doing amounts to what GM did with the GMT800's when the current F150 came to market. the problem is GM did it the same year, and Ford is doing it a few years late.
Meanwhile the sales gap btw F150 and GM continues to narrow.
Also do not be fooled. GM will probably have new powertrains for its range when the F150 comes to market. They already testing the diesels and ramping up the 6 speed production, and have the hybrid option that Ford does not have, YET

wingsnut
12-18-2007, 05:17 PM
The current Ford F-150 chassis is heavier than the competition for a reason. It is stronger than the competion, which allows it to tow more than anyone and haul more than anyone.

Now, if you think Ford can't introduce a much better chassis through extensive engineering improvements - without the label "all new" then you are fooling nobody but yourself. The new F-150 will dominate, you can count on that.

igor
12-18-2007, 05:19 PM
GMT 900's are all new, the Heavy Duty wll be on a new GMT 900 Chassis in 2009,
In Fords defence, the F150, is still pretty new. Newer than the GMT 800, so it has another three years. If GM upgrades the GT900 in another 4 years, ford will be completely outclassedHUH - the 09 has an all new frame - just like the GMT 900's - or at least as much -

truth is very few vahicles are "all new" nowadays - pieces carry over ..

Ford is not standing still - the 09 F150 might carry over some cab style (again), but the frame is all new.. and knowing all the infor I know now ( working on an article about the truck using Ford's embargoed information) - Ford will have no trouble outclassing the GMT900's again .. think SuperDuty in the level of innovation.

Igor

igor
12-18-2007, 05:23 PM
Wings, the GMT900's are new, Ford's is an old frame!! with upgrades.
Powertrains I would say, GM is still as good if not better than Ford. Until the F150 is on an all new Frame, GM is ahead.
I know you have passion for F150, but what ford is doing amounts to what GM did with the GMT800's when the current F150 came to market. the problem is GM did it the same year, and Ford is doing it a few years late.
Meanwhile the sales gap btw F150 and GM continues to narrow.
Also do not be fooled. GM will probably have new powertrains for its range when the F150 comes to market. They already testing the diesels and ramping up the 6 speed production, and have the hybrid option that Ford does not have, YET

you make no sense ...

the F150 frame was all new in 2004 and will be again for 2009.
Gm power trains and 6speed - we have been hearing of those since the 900';s debuted ... where are they?
You seem to give Gm the benefit of the doubt but not Ford ... looking at what will come out Dearborn in august - GM will lose some ground. we shall see where they go from there ... one thing is certain - Ford have the most luxurious truck on the market possibly even counting the Escalade EXT.

Igor

Mbukukanyau
12-18-2007, 05:31 PM
The current Ford F-150 chassis is heavier than the competition for a reason. It is stronger than the competion, which allows it to tow more than anyone and haul more than anyone.

Now, if you think Ford can't introduce a much better chassis through extensive engineering improvements - without the label "all new" then you are fooling nobody but yourself. The new F-150 will dominate, you can count on that.
This is conflicting information. Is it all new or improved over the old.
HUH - the 09 has an all new frame - just like the GMT 900's - or at least as much -

truth is very few vahicles are "all new" nowadays - pieces carry over ..

Ford is not standing still - the 09 F150 might carry over some cab style (again), but the frame is all new.. and knowing all the infor I know now ( working on an article about the truck using Ford's embargoed information) - Ford will have no trouble outclassing the GMT900's again .. think SuperDuty in the level of innovation.

Igor
I think Igor is consistently right. It must be all new, then it will be up to snuff
you make no sense ...

the F150 frame was all new in 2004 and will be again for 2009.
Gm power trains and 6speed - we have been hearing of those since the 900';s debuted ... where are they?
You seem to give Gm the benefit of the doubt but not Ford ... looking at what will come out Dearborn in august - GM will lose some ground. we shall see where they go from there ... one thing is certain - Ford have the most luxurious truck on the market possibly even counting the Escalade EXT.

Igor
My point was, if its not all new, its not as good. GM enginneers are as good as Fords. And I am glad Ford will put something to compete with the Escalade, up to this time, Escalade has been killing them.

Chevy needs six speeds badly. They have not delivered on that promise.

wingsnut
12-18-2007, 08:55 PM
Listen to Igor, not me. I have to tip toe around everything I say. Rather frustrating:(

Mbukukanyau
12-19-2007, 02:31 AM
Listen to Igor, not me. I have to tip toe around everything I say. Rather frustrating:(
I hear you sir. I think Igor is a think tank when it comes to insider news. Nothing comes close, he is always right on the money

igor
12-19-2007, 09:42 AM
I hear you sir. I think Igor is a think tank when it comes to insider news. Nothing comes close, he is always right on the money

unfortunately, for the next 3 weeks, I have to tip toe around F150 myself - I have about 90% of the info that will be presented at NAIAS, but 90% of that is from Ford and is embargoed .. :( a weird position for me - I always had insider info that I would just break out in full ;) )

the biggest thing I am missing about F150 is numbers - HP/TQ of the new engines, capabilities, and FE - and then pictures.

But the rest of the truck is quite awesome - they managed to make the truck span price range from $17k to about $60k without either end being weak, and I think that is amazing. The lack of the 6.2l at launch will hurt the top end a little, but the rest of the ruck will make up for it.

Igor

wingsnut
12-19-2007, 09:53 AM
igor,
how you feel regarding the inability to divulge cool info about the F-150 is how I feel often about lots of coming Ford products.

The lack of a premium V8 might hurt a little right away, but that will easily be offset with a much more FE option.