Mercury and future RWD in FoMoCo portfolio [Archive] - Ford Inside News Community

: Mercury and future RWD in FoMoCo portfolio



escapen
11-15-2007, 11:35 AM
A few quotes on product specifics from Mr. Mulally and Mr. Fields from the Detroit News Article:



Originally Posted by Detroit News
Mulally said Ford plans to bring a new rear-wheel-drive platform to market in the United States "soon".

Originally Posted by Detroit News
Mulally said Ford's turnaround plan is working, but acknowledged that the entire industry now faces some serious economic headwinds that could force the company to make more cuts.

"The contingency planning and the business environment have clearly gotten tougher," he said, adding that Ford will react quickly to any major drop in demand for its products. "This company is dealing with the business realities we are facing."


Originally Posted by Detroit News
Fields challenged rumors that Mercury has no future by announcing that a refreshed version of the Milan sedan is in the works, as well as a hybrid version. While Ford plans to invest much more heavily in Lincoln and make it the volume-leader of the franchise, he said Mercury is bringing a different demographic into the company's showrooms.

"We've been very clear on what Mercury stands for," he said.

Mbukukanyau
11-15-2007, 05:12 PM
I hope this means we are getting new Falcon

http://www.motivemagazine.com/emAlbum/albums/Manufacturers/Ford/Asia%20and%20Africa/BA%20Fairmont/Exterior/ford-fairmont-002.jpg

wingsnut
11-15-2007, 06:21 PM
I hope this means we are getting new Falcon

http://www.motivemagazine.com/emAlbum/albums/Manufacturers/Ford/Asia%20and%20Africa/BA%20Fairmont/Exterior/ford-fairmont-002.jpg

I personally think that is the ugliest Ford I have ever seen.

Why are people so impressed with Aussie Ford cars? Aside from the gawdy, boy-racer versions with spoilers with dams and racing stripes, I can't think of one vehicle down there that would even get my attention.

emdee
11-16-2007, 01:43 AM
I've got to agree with Wingnut on this one. This Aussie Falcon looks like the lost love child of a last generation Mondeo/Contour and a Volvo S40. Truly nothing special, just different.

igor
11-17-2007, 08:04 PM
MkR announcement is coming soon (this autoshow season) and a trule flaship Lincoln is not far behind.

Igor

emdee
11-17-2007, 11:54 PM
MkR announcement is coming soon (this autoshow season) and a trule flaship Lincoln is not far behind.

Igor
I don't know the source of this belief but another well known Lincoln source (who is always accurate) is saying that the earliest rear drive car from Lincoln will not arrive until 2012. That's a long way off and implies that they haven't even made the decision yet on what to build, let alone started on it. I wish it were otherwise. I just don't understand why Ford takes so long build a new car.

Mbukukanyau
11-18-2007, 07:45 AM
I don't know the source of this belief but another well known Lincoln source (who is always accurate) is saying that the earliest rear drive car from Lincoln will not arrive until 2012. That's a long way off and implies that they haven't even made the decision yet on what to build, let alone started on it. I wish it were otherwise. I just don't understand why Ford takes so long build a new car.I have learnt to rely on Igors word over the years.
So will Orion be getting a Mercury grill?

2b2
11-18-2007, 12:58 PM
...So will Orion be getting a Mercury grill?


very interesting question - in a number of ways (apologies if not the way you were thinking, Mbukukanyau)

tho the topic du jour is Lincoln & web-wisdom says preHuntsman-Orion is AU only,
what if Ford-ROTW started using a kind of waterfall grille on some of its top-of-the-line models (Ghia substitute?)
could sorta lay the groundwork for making the loaded models a mini-sub-brand???
...yeah, I probably just need more coffee (or less)

as for GlobalRwdPlatform Mercs, think Jsaylor is leaning Yes, while I doubt it (http://www.fomoconews.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8633#post8633).

megeebee
11-18-2007, 02:43 PM
MkR announcement is coming soon (this autoshow season) and a trule flaship Lincoln is not far behind.

Igor


I'm curious. Your post seems to imply there will be yet another Lincoln "above" MKR. Am I reading you right?

SobeSVT
11-18-2007, 02:45 PM
I'm curious. Your post seems to imply there will be yet another Lincoln "above" MKR. Am I reading you right?
I think you are.

Would that be a real Town Car replacement? Or some HiTech über Lincoln?

2b2
11-18-2007, 03:11 PM
^^

new motto?

Lincoln = Über

emdee
11-18-2007, 11:31 PM
I think you are.

Would that be a real Town Car replacement? Or some HiTech über Lincoln?

Indeed, let's get specific about any coming rear drive Lincoln. I don't hear Igor saying that the car itself is imminent, only a decision to build one. The guy on another site who's telling us that the first rear drive model year will be 2012 works there, develops and tests these cars. I could be more specific about his job but I don't want to get him in trouble for talking to us. But he is clearly in a position to know. He hasn't mislead us once in several years.

So, if someone else knows, then what, specifically, is coming, and when? Given Ford's pace in new car development, the only way they could deliver something sooner than 2012 would be to import a slightly modified model from Europe or Australia, but there seem to be plenty of reasons why that can't happen. We'll surely get platform sharing from other countries, but not facelifted quickies. That has failed everytime anyone has tried it (Ford: Merkur and Capri; GM: Catera).

escapen
11-20-2007, 11:51 AM
I believe that Lincoln is shaping its product lineup to be very similar to Cadillacs. The DTS and STS are being consolidated to one model in 2 or 3 years and that will leave a BLS to take on MKZ, CTS for MKS, and the New flagship model to hopefully be joined by the MKR as their flagships. Both makers will have 3 sedans that discourage overlap in the lineup.

The MKR will be RWD if it come to fruititon, it has to be. I dont really know how will this will be a TownCar replacement, the concept was so sleek and the TC needs to ba hearty large car with a,ot of rear head room, (also needs to be able to be strechehed as a limo). Although, Lincoln maybe wants to get rid of the persona of the TC being a fleet-like "black sedan-Limo" type car only. The Chrysler 300 could fill this void.

Overall, the MKR needs to be a full benchmark ahead of MKS and offer RWD, at least 2 or 3 engine choices all V8's, and offer what a lincoln needs to be flagship. Lincoln cant rely on body-on-frame SUVS and crossovers forever.

MKZ-BLS
MKS-CTS
MKR-STS/DTS replacement
MKX- BRX
MK*- People mover with no real competitor
Navigator- Escalade

2b2
11-20-2007, 12:27 PM
wait wait wait

_wlb___ovl_
123.7 - 221.4 - TownCar-L
117.7 - 215.4 - TownCar
115.6 - 207.6 - DTS
112.9 - 204.1 - MKS production iirc
121.0 - 204.0 - Audi A8 L (long wlb)
121.7 - 202.8 2007-8 Lexoid LS-L
115.9 - 198.9 - A8 (reg wlb)
110.5 - 198.1 - LaCrosse
117.7 - 198.0 - BMW 7 (reg wlb)
116.9 - 198.0 - Lexoid LS
120.0 - 196.8 - 300
116.4 - 196.3 - STS
114.5 - 194.3 - Lincoln LS
113.4 - 191.5 - CTS-V
107.1 - 191.1 - ES
111.6 - 191.0 - Volvo S80 (EUCD)
113.4 - 190.1 - CTS
107.4 - 190.5 - MKZ (awd2007 191.3)

I've seen a 300-limo - it's a joke, looks like a Fusion limo (narrow)

possibly the best comparison for the MKS is the DTS/STS combo-replacement... whenever they get around to it
probably the best comparison for the MKR will be the CTS... tho a touch bigger than the CTS BUT that's guessing (ps see Lincoln LS)
lord knows WHAT the BLS will be - if/when - but it'll be Compared with the 3er(which is Jetta/Cobalt-sized)

(sorry if I got carried away with the numbers)

edit: back on topic
114.7 - 212.0 - Mercury Grand Marquis
112.9 - 200.4 - Mercury Sable
107.4 - 191.4 - Mercury Milan

MKII
11-20-2007, 01:18 PM
," he said (Mulally), adding that Ford will react quickly to any major drop in demand for its products. "

When the big guy makes statements like this, whatever is not selling and making money won't last, and plans could change yesterday. Pretty difficult to predict anything solid from Ford N.A.

emdee
11-21-2007, 01:48 AM
wait wait wait

_wlb___ovl_
123.7 - 221.4 - TownCar-L
117.7 - 215.4 - TownCar
115.6 - 207.6 - DTS
112.9 - 204.1 - MKS production iirc
121.0 - 204.0 - Audi A8 L (long wlb)
121.7 - 202.8 2007-8 Lexoid LS-L
115.9 - 198.9 - A8 (reg wlb)
110.5 - 198.1 - LaCrosse
117.7 - 198.0 - BMW 7 (reg wlb)
116.9 - 198.0 - Lexoid LS
120.0 - 196.8 - 300
116.4 - 196.3 - STS
114.5 - 194.3 - Lincoln LS
113.4 - 191.5 - CTS-V
107.1 - 191.1 - ES
111.6 - 191.0 - Volvo S80 (EUCD)
113.4 - 190.1 - CTS
107.4 - 190.5 - MKZ (awd2007 191.3)

I've seen a 300-limo - it's a joke, looks like a Fusion limo (narrow)

possibly the best comparison for the MKS is the DTS/STS combo-replacement... whenever they get around to it
probably the best comparison for the MKR will be the CTS... tho a touch bigger than the CTS BUT that's guessing (ps see Lincoln LS)
lord knows WHAT the BLS will be - if/when - but it'll be Compared with the 3er(which is Jetta/Cobalt-sized)

(sorry if I got carried away with the numbers)

edit: back on topic
114.7 - 212.0 - Mercury Grand Marquis
112.9 - 200.4 - Mercury Sable
107.4 - 191.4 - Mercury Milan

I don't think Lincoln has any intention of abandoning the high end livery market. It's good advertising for them in our largest cities. Having a driver in a Town Car still has an upscale, classy image. It also testifies to Lincoln's durability since so many of the TCs that work for a living have anywhere from 100 to 500,000 miles on them. The drivers will tell you that no other car holds up this well. They've tried the Cadillacs and Mercedes and even 7 series Bimmers in New York but all but the Lincolns become a maintenance nightmare after the first 100K miles.

Your listing of the wheelbases and overall lengths is very interesting. It says to me that Lincoln still have a problem making its cars longer than they need to be. It makes no sense, for example, that the MKS has a shorter wheelbase than the LS did, but is substantially longer. That's all overhang, which isn't good for anything except crumple room. It also creates a problem of proportion in the design. The should be concerned that a car like the 7 series BMW has 5 inch longer wheelbase and rear drive, yet is 6 inches shorter, and has very similar interior room. That just ain't right! A lot of us don't want that extra length every time we try to park the car.

megeebee
11-21-2007, 10:34 AM
I don't think Lincoln has any intention of abandoning the high end livery market. It's good advertising for them in our largest cities.


You do?

http://www.cusoon.at/photos/1183369725/limousine-mieten-wien1.jpg

"Town Car" is synonymous with "Un-marked-Taxi-Cab".

It is not a bad business to be in. But it doesn't do the Lincoln brand any good when the average person sees lines of beaten-up black Town Cars waiting at airports and hotels. We certainly know it hasn't done retail sales of the Town Car itself any good, either. The TC itself is a comaparatively simply device to assemble and most all its parts are old and their tooling costs long-since paid for. This makes an attractive proposition for Ford that needs all the money it can get. But if it cares for the Lincoln name, the practice will have to cease some day and probably soon.

2b2
11-21-2007, 12:29 PM
...Your listing of the wheelbases and overall lengths is very interesting. It says to me that Lincoln still have a problem making its cars longer than they need to be. It makes no sense, for example, that the MKS has a shorter wheelbase than the LS did, but is substantially longer. That's all overhang, which isn't good for anything except crumple room. It also creates a problem of proportion in the design. The should be concerned that a car like the 7 series BMW has 5 inch longer wheelbase and rear drive, yet is 6 inches shorter, and has very similar interior room. That just ain't right! A lot of us don't want that extra length every time we try to park the car.


Emdee, please believe I agree about shorter overhangs being good in general.
(actually that the smallest vehicles that suits one's needs is best, imho)
However (imho) even short overhangs can/could/might be overdone on other than sport models |imho|
& BMW has some of the shortest overhangs of Any mfg
& Rwd cars usually have shorter overhangs than Fwds (as I expect you know)
& imho it's mainly Fords larger cars that are the worst offenders -
- Panthers due to platform age imho - expect the Huntsman to be shorter
- DO wish the D3's (& even CD3's) were a bit longer wheelbase
- tho (imho) the Taurus-etc show that spacious interiors can be accomplished without unusually long wlb's - think a major benefir could be frt/rear weight balance tho

just my opinion


re: limos
I'd *like* to see them built with different(old?) sheetmetal to distinguish them from retail models.
I'd hope Fomoco (not nec. Lincoln) can find a way to keep the all the commercial vehicles sales
but believe that few people want to drive a limo-, let alone a taxicab-, -look-alike!

CTYankee
11-21-2007, 05:30 PM
"Town Car" is synonymous with "Un-marked-Taxi-Cab".

It is not a bad business to be in. But it doesn't do the Lincoln brand any good when the average person sees lines of beaten-up black Town Cars waiting at airports and hotels. We certainly know it hasn't done retail sales of the Town Car itself any good, either. The TC itself is a comaparatively simply device to assemble and most all its parts are old and their tooling costs long-since paid for. This makes an attractive proposition for Ford that needs all the money it can get. But if it cares for the Lincoln name, the practice will have to cease some day and probably soon.

I disagree with you on this point. Travel anywhere in Germany and you will see endless examples of Mercedes sedans in service as taxis. Yet that hasn't hurt Mercedes standing as a premium brand.

Lincoln will have to do what Cadillac did; they will have to produce a world-class performance sedan that seats five comfortably. A decontented version of that car in livery service won't harm the brand, IMHO. It may even help establish brand awareness.

emdee
11-22-2007, 01:53 AM
I disagree with you on this point. Travel anywhere in Germany and you will see endless examples of Mercedes sedans in service as taxis. Yet that hasn't hurt Mercedes standing as a premium brand.

Lincoln will have to do what Cadillac did; they will have to produce a world-class performance sedan that seats five comfortably. A decontented version of that car in livery service won't harm the brand, IMHO. It may even help establish brand awareness.

No surprise, I obviously share this disagreement as well. Most of those Town Cars are in good shape and well maintained. They are a still a symbol of luxury transportation in major cities, used by people who strongly prefer them over regular taxis. There's no greater example of this than New York, where the shiny black Town Car is a near universal symbol of higher class transportation. Ask the drivers about the TCs and you'll hear nothing but praise for their comfort and durability. All of them will tell you that the TC is the only car that holds up in this kind of service. , while the others become horribly expensive to maintain after the first 100,000 miles. The TC y may not be as powerful as new designs, but their interior fittings are high quality - real wood, decent leather and carpeting, and more room than any competitor (the long wheelbase version). They have kept Lincoln alive on the streets in all these years when the company offered little else. The impression I get within the business community is that TC is widely respected as a chauffered luxury car, which after all is perhaps the greatest luxury. It's not the car that people are likely to buy to drive themselves, but neither is a Rolls for that matter. It's viewed as good way to get where you're going in comfort and quiet.

2b2
11-25-2007, 02:21 PM
(re-typed from T.day) & http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/stirpot.gif (admins: please steal the stirpot smilie)
with a combination of tryptophan-turkey & eggnog(50%bourbon)
the gloves are coming off :D

It's sooo obvious... Ford is AFRAID of Mercury!

Think about it.
What led to the imports success?
Having been (note tense) "a bit nicer/better than" those-domestic-brands(Ford/Chevy).
________________Sound familiar?^^^

other side of the coin:
What's DUMB about the imports?
Their "luxury" divisions that are just (to an extent) nicer/better versions of their already nicer/better entry brands:
Honda/Acura
VW/Audi
Nissan/Infiniti
Thugota/Luxoid
Would they be better-off if they quit pretending/snobbing and (re)merged???
I'm actually wondering when/which one of these brands will create a new Medium brand to take the place of tippy-top-trim Camcordimas &or more affordable versions of their LuxBrands...

okiedokie, let's see about features
- heated&cooled perforated leather seating? - a bit Much for Ford, not special enuf (by itself) for Lincoln, Ideal for Mercury
- satin-finished metal? Lincoln needs cHrOmE but ^ditto^ on a Ford, purrfect for Mercury
- SYNC? great opt on Fords, any Lincoln buyer care? or know what it is? juusssttt riiiiiight for Mercury
- A/C vs 'climate', halogen vs HIDs, LEDs?, even adj. suspension? Wouldn't be that special std on a Lincoln, admirable opt on a MERC
Face it. When it comes to Lux, Fords need to keep a lid on it, too much is barely enuf for Lincoln, that sweet spot = Mercury

THE SOLUTION
Ford-US keeps the trucks, the Mustang (an 'M'name anyway), copcars&taxis, and brings out their global B-stuff (maybe an F-series-SUV or 2 if they play nice). AND THAT'S IT.
Lincoln builds a re-packaged retail-worthy version of the TC(ontinental), keeps the old version going for Limos. AND THAT'S IT.
EVERYTHING ELSE » NA-built C2Focuii thru MKS»Marquis is a MERCURY http://home.surfree.com/~pauld/biggrin.gif
(yes, we also need to stretch an MKS to build one worthy of the GRAND in GrandMarquis)

Ford-EU can keep the Ford name (their cars are already obviously mis-badged Mercurys anyway).
Ford-AU too can keep their blue-ovals - 'course the Huntsman Falcon IS everything the Cougar was meant to be (other than style-wise ...we'll fix that... with a reworked MKougaR).
Hybrids, other alternate-fuel drivetrains, DSG? = perfect Match.

*Jill* gets a boy-toy-du-jour to help broaden the message (just until she becomes the first female President (can you imagine a President you want to see on tv?).
& IF Mercury ever decides to bother with the other crazy Germans' HP fetische, there's always MERKUR or Quicksilver/Quecksilber ;) or...
could use "Of quyksilver, yclept mercurie" [link: line 772 (http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=Cha2Can.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/lv1/Archive/mideng-parsed&tag=public&part=49&division=div2)] for that http://home.surfree.com/~pauld/OldeEnglish.gif flavor...
although a Jaguar is a just another cat afterall...
http://home.surfree.com/~pauld/easyM.gif < reload if you missed the animation
&
for slightly more(or less (mine)) rational plans, visit Mission: Mercury! (http://www.fomoconews.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1442)

megeebee
11-25-2007, 09:20 PM
Think about it.
What led to the imports success?
Having been (note tense) "a bit nicer/better than" those-domestic-brands(Ford/Chevy).
________________Sound familiar?^^^



You answer your own question....



It's sooo obvious.

Lincolns look like Fords.

http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/LincolnMKX/Images/RightSide.jpg

http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/FordEdge/Images2007/LeftSide.jpg

wingsnut
11-25-2007, 09:26 PM
Not from the front, rear or interior:rolleyes:

emdee
11-26-2007, 12:37 AM
Oh please, let's be accurate here. The side panels and pillars of the Lincoln MKX look like those of the Ford Edge, true enough. But as Wingnet aptly points out, look at the vehicles head on, or from the rear, or inside, and there's little similarity. Moreover, this is something that Lincoln has promised to change in the next generation of the MKS. At the time the design decisions were made for the MKX and the MKZ, FoMoCo was virtually bankrupt. They kept the Lincoln brand alive the only way they could, on a bare bones budget. The most expensive body panels of any car or SUV are the the doors first, then the rear fenders which are often a single piece with the C pillar and roof. Big surprise then that these had to be shared with the Ford versions rather than unique stampings for Lincoln. It was that or no MKZ or MKX, period. Now, the rest of the line. There isn't a single shared body panel between a Town Car and a Grand Marquis or Crown Vic. GM and CV share almost everything, and that is the normal relationship between Ford and Mercury. Also not a shared interior part (maybe the radio and auto/AC controls), seat, carpet or anything else between the TC and the other Panthers. I've never thought the TC looked like the other Panthers except in the broadest sense of the general shape. Today, we see that the MKS doesn't share a single panel or look remotely like the Taurus, which was really quite a feat considering the closely shared platform. We haven't seen the Lincoln large crossover that's coming, but the decision not to share any body panels or design language with the Ford Flex was announced long ago. Lastly, I guess, there's the Navigator. Since it invented the category that its in, there really isn't anything much to compare it to. Yes, again we saw the doors and greenhouse shared with the Expedition, but front, rear and interior have been completely different from the first version onward. In each subsequent update, it has shared less and less with the Expedition. You could take the above two sentences and insert Escalade and either Chevy Tahoe or GMC Denali and it would be equally accurate. You can do the same with Nissan and Infinity models, though not with Toyota/Lexus because they don't really make anything in this class.

I hope this clarifies the question about whether Lincolns look like Fords. That generalization just doesn't fly.

wingsnut
11-26-2007, 03:46 AM
There seems to be an occasional desire by some to find something negative to say about the successful Edge and MKX, and similar profiles is about all they can find.

SobeSVT
11-26-2007, 06:42 AM
I disagree with you on this point. Travel anywhere in Germany and you will see endless examples of Mercedes sedans in service as taxis. Yet that hasn't hurt Mercedes standing as a premium brand.

Lincoln will have to do what Cadillac did; they will have to produce a world-class performance sedan that seats five comfortably. A decontented version of that car in livery service won't harm the brand, IMHO. It may even help establish brand awareness.
Mecedes not only serves and encourages it livery business, but they promote the hell out of it as testament of the durability of their cars. BMW wishes they could touch Mercedes livery business.

I think that many people tends to trash and bash the Panthers because they are old but ask a NYC cabbie or limo driver. They love their CVs and TCs. They are indestructibles, durable and very easy to fix.

There seems to be an occasional desire by some to find something negative to say about the successful Edge and MKX, and similar profiles is about all they can find.
Megeebee gets a kick out of pointing out these similarities between the Edge and the MKX, but he doesn't mean bad. I would also like to read him pointing out the biggest similarity between these two cars, and that is the tremendous success both are enjoying, but I am sure of his honesty when he says that he is also cheering for Lincoln's success.

Mbukukanyau
11-26-2007, 10:59 AM
Mecedes not only serves and encourages it livery business, but they promote the hell out of it as testament of the durability of their cars. BMW wishes they could touch Mercedes livery business.

I think that many people tends to trash and bash the Panthers because they are old but ask a NYC cabbie or limo driver. They love their CVs and TCs. They are indestructibles, durable and very easy to fix.

Megeebee gets a kick out of pointing out these similarities between the Edge and the MKX, but he doesn't mean bad. I would also like to read him pointing out the biggest similarity between these two cars, and that is the tremendous success both are enjoying, but I am sure of his honesty when he says that he is also cheering for Lincoln's success.
there is no doubt, the Edge/MKX plartform is a winner. the MKX is the LTZ version of the edge.
Very nice truck this is.

silvercv2002
11-29-2007, 12:36 PM
I would LOVE to have an Aussie car avaliable here. RWD, decent power, what's not to love? I might even buy another Ford CAR if they do. Until then, they have nothing to offer me besides trucks....

zanadude
12-21-2007, 01:37 PM
Say it out loud, and pray:

"A REAL CONTINENTAL"