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mowog
12-13-2007, 02:44 PM
Ford Release Orion Details
The countdown to the all-new Ford Falcon, codenamed Orion, has begun ahead of the crucial new vehicle’s launch in 2008.

http://photo.ringo.com/245/245669360RL385721082.jpg (http://photo.ringo.com/245/245669360O385721082.jpg)
The countdown to a new 2008 Ford Falcon has begun.
Ford will reveal engineering details of the new Falcon in February 2008, ahead of a May launch of its new model, codenamed Orion.
Wagon, ute and high performance versions of the car will follow between May and the end of June.
The new car will be 8th generation of Australia’s oldest surviving nameplate and arguably the most crucial in the company’s history in Australia.
Ford is counting on the new Falcon to reverse its flagging fortunes in the local large car market, where it has been on a dramatic slide in recent years.
The Ford Falcon has suffered more than most as Australian buyers have turned their back on large cars in favour of four-wheel-drives and small cars.
Falcon sales in 2007 are roughly half what they were in 2004 and the car has slipped to fourth in the sales race behind the new Holden VE Commodore, the Toyota Corolla and the Mazda3.
Ford today revealed a series of investments it has made in preparation for the new Falcon, including:

a new $27 million research and development centre
a new $55 million stamping plant
a $29 million upgrade of its proving ground in You Yangs
plans to invest $1.8 billion in engineering and development over the next decade, as it builds a new Focus and Falcon and engineers a new pick-up for Asia.But despite the investment, the big question many people are asking is how new will the new Falcon be when it is launched in May.
The current model has been around since 2002 and even that model shared some underpinnings with the AU Falcon, which was launched in 1998.
But insiders say the new Falcon will remain fundamentally unchanged under the sheetmetal, except for new front suspension, which has been revised with input from Ford’s just-retired handling guru, Richard Parry Jones.
Ford is unlikely to make major revisions to its current 4.0-litre six-cylinder engine (due to be replaced by a V6 in 2010), which is already more powerful and fuel efficient than its main competitor, the Commodore.

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Mbukukanyau
12-13-2007, 06:36 PM
Mowog, when is this hitting the autoshow cricuit. It looks complete at this point. They are probably doing finishing touches on the vehicle.
its so sad we will not see this in North America. Mercury could use it.

wingsnut
12-13-2007, 07:20 PM
Mowog, when is this hitting the autoshow cricuit. It looks complete at this point. They are probably doing finishing touches on the vehicle.
its so sad we will not see this in North America. Mercury could use it.

What does this have that a boosted 3.5L Sable does not?

Mbukukanyau
12-13-2007, 08:52 PM
What does this have that a boosted 3.5L Sable does not?
V8
RWD
Style..
Want more?

ndwariga
12-14-2007, 09:58 AM
What does this have that a boosted 3.5L Sable does not?
I think if Ford brought this to America, it would be going aganist G8 and the 300C, nothing from Japan or Europe compares to those two American Sedans

wingsnut
12-14-2007, 11:16 AM
V8
RWD
Style..
Want more?

By the time this was ready and Ford brought it here, we will get the new Taurus anyway.


lack of traction from a RWD is a disadvantage in a family car, and with the huge HP of a TF engine, you need AWD anyway.

That car does not have any style from what I see. Sable is much nicer now.

mowog
12-17-2007, 06:37 PM
What does this have that a boosted 3.5L Sable does not?

2 Levels of V8 Power 260kw - 302kw
2 Levels of Turbo 6 245kw - 260kw (more to come with the Orion)

German ZF 6 speed Auto

RWD world class platform which is something most US cars dont have.

Ute (Pickup) versions

mowog
12-17-2007, 06:43 PM
By the time this was ready and Ford brought it here, we will get the new Taurus anyway.


lack of traction from a RWD is a disadvantage in a family car, and with the huge HP of a TF engine, you need AWD anyway.

That car does not have any style from what I see. Sable is much nicer now.

The Orion has Traction Control and Dynamic stability control. We have AWD in the Ford Territory SUV.

You cant tell how the car is going to look at the moment but I tell you the current BF Falcon is far better looking than most US Fords.

Hi power RWD = HUGE fun factor I love my XR6 Turbo Ute it is a ball to drive. I also own a Territory AWD and it is not as much fun to drive which is why it will be replaced with a Turbo Territory in the new year.

wingsnut
12-17-2007, 07:10 PM
The Orion has Traction Control and Dynamic stability control. We have AWD in the Ford Territory SUV.

You cant tell how the car is going to look at the moment but I tell you the current BF Falcon is far better looking than most US Fords.

Hi power RWD = HUGE fun factor I love my XR6 Turbo Ute it is a ball to drive. I also own a Territory AWD and it is not as much fun to drive which is why it will be replaced with a Turbo Territory in the new year.

The current BF Falcon is easily the ugliest Ford ever made. At least in the last 20 years!!!
It's styling screams 1980's and from what I see of the new one, it looks bad too. Of course it is all subjective.

As for fun factor, the "world class" RWD platform will not touch an AWD sporty Taurus or Sable with a Twin Force engine - assuming of course Ford has plans for one;)

Definition of ugly. See below:
http://www.nextcar.com.au/i.ford.falcon.BF.xr.menace.jpg

mowog
12-17-2007, 09:52 PM
The current BF Falcon is easily the ugliest Ford ever made. At least in the last 20 years!!!
It's styling screams 1980's and from what I see of the new one, it looks bad too. Of course it is all subjective.

As for fun factor, the "world class" RWD platform will not touch an AWD sporty Taurus or Sable with a Twin Force engine - assuming of course Ford has plans for one;)

Definition of ugly. See below:
http://www.nextcar.com.au/i.ford.falcon.BF.xr.menace.jpg

You are entitled to you opinion no matter how wrong you are.

As for AWD performance we have the Turbo Territory and the soon to be released FPV F6X.

wingsnut
12-18-2007, 03:22 AM
You are entitled to you opinion no matter how wrong you are.

As for AWD performance we have the Turbo Territory and the soon to be released FPV F6X.

As are you, and boy are you wrong.

And I am not here to compare AU vs NA performance cars in total. I am arguing your point that the performance Falcon, complete with it's RWD limitations, is not better than an AWD twin turbo Taurus. I don't even know how you would compare them. Throw snow or rain or gravel into the mix (you know, real world stuff), and the Falcon might as well stay home.

mowog
12-18-2007, 12:47 PM
As are you, and boy are you wrong.

And I am not here to compare AU vs NA performance cars in total. I am arguing your point that the performance Falcon, complete with it's RWD limitations, is not better than an AWD twin turbo Taurus. I don't even know how you would compare them. Throw snow or rain or gravel into the mix (you know, real world stuff), and the Falcon might as well stay home.

I am an AWD fan I think its great.... But

In Australia we dont have a lot of snow but we do have a lot of unsealed roads which the Falcon has been developed on over its many generations. If you are going to drive like an idiot on marginal road sufaces then it doesnt matter what kind of car you are driving you will end up in trouble.

High powered RWD cars are not for the faint hearted pussy types who cant drive for those guys they need FWD or AWD.

I own a Performance RWD a family AWD SUV and 2 sporty FWD hatches I can tell you now I love driving my XR6 Turbo because its RWD and its powerful. There is a level of driving feel that only RWD can produce. On the basis of your argument you are saying BMW Merc... etc have got it wrong and they need make FWD and AWD cars because "You" think there better...?

Mbukukanyau
12-18-2007, 12:55 PM
I am an AWD fan I think its great.... But

In Australia we dont have a lot of snow but we do have a lot of unsealed roads which the Falcon has been developed on over its many generations. If you are going to drive like an idiot on marginal road sufaces then it doesnt matter what kind of car you are driving you will end up in trouble.

High powered RWD cars are not for the faint hearted pussy types who cant drive for those guys they need FWD or AWD.

I own a Performance RWD a family AWD SUV and 2 sporty FWD hatches I can tell you now I love driving my XR6 Turbo because its RWD and its powerful. There is a level of driving feel that only RWD can produce. On the basis of your argument you are saying BMW Merc... etc have got it wrong and they need make FWD and AWD cars because "You" think there better...?
I think this little dissagreement can be brought out to two things, if you live out in the snow belt, AWD FWD might be a good fit, if you live out in California, RWD is much better, especially from Cadillac since its perfect balance btw ride and perfomance, it outcorners the germans while not giving up its smooth ride.
Now, given the choice between RWD and FWD, most commuters will choose FWD, they do not know better, most car guys will choose RWD.. its a no brainer...
as for Ausies and their big RWD, more power to them, I am looking to getting a G8, if I can afford it

mowog
12-18-2007, 03:20 PM
There is no end to the RWD vs FWD vs AWD debate. People just have their preference.

In US this FWD is safer came from GM Ford and Chrysler wanting to sell barge like FWD cars because it is cheaper to package a drive train that way. So they marketed these cars as being safer than RWD. The people came to believe this crap to the point where some claim it as gospel and the all being truth. The truth is they were sold a dud by car companies trying reduce cost. Take for example that 90% of the premium car makers dont produce a FWD car surely if it was safer they would do so.

wingsnut
12-18-2007, 04:48 PM
For high performance with lots of HP, I prefer AWD.
RWD can't touch it no matter where you drive, especially with it's traction limitations.

FWD for commutes and AWD for performance. Best of all worlds.

mowog
12-18-2007, 07:02 PM
For high performance with lots of HP, I prefer AWD.
RWD can't touch it no matter where you drive, especially with it's traction limitations.

FWD for commutes and AWD for performance. Best of all worlds.

You know just sometimes being able to get the tail out in power overstear is great fun. Or balancing a car on the edge at almost overstear feeling the backend pushing you out of a corner under power. I understand that if you have limited driving skills and high powered RWD cars are too much for you then some safe FWD or AWD platform is for you.

Even my wife was able to handle and accidental power slide at 55mph while overtaking a Caravan and a truck on a wet road.

Do you have an answer as to why Premium brands dont use FWD or AWD that much?

The thing is in Australia we still have RWD Muscle cars that you can buy new in the US well you have a few limited sports cars that with the expection of the Corvette that are very average.

Here Dad can go and buy a 400hp (plus) 4 door family car from the showroom... We also have the choice of FWD or AWD the important thing is we have the choice.

My choice for next year will be a 400hp AWD SUV but I will also be keeping my RWD XR6 Turbo.

wingsnut
12-18-2007, 07:41 PM
You know just sometimes being able to get the tail out in power overstear is great fun. Or balancing a car on the edge at almost overstear feeling the backend pushing you out of a corner under power. I understand that if you have limited driving skills and high powered RWD cars are too much for you then some safe FWD or AWD platform is for you.

Even my wife was able to handle and accidental power slide at 55mph while overtaking a Caravan and a truck on a wet road.

Do you have an answer as to why Premium brands dont use FWD or AWD that much?

The thing is in Australia we still have RWD Muscle cars that you can buy new in the US well you have a few limited sports cars that with the expection of the Corvette that are very average.

Here Dad can go and buy a 400hp (plus) 4 door family car from the showroom... We also have the choice of FWD or AWD the important thing is we have the choice.

My choice for next year will be a 400hp AWD SUV but I will also be keeping my RWD XR6 Turbo.


Some of my play cars I have owned in the past include,
1970 Boss 302 (modified to about 425hp)
1988 Buick Regal GS (modified to about 380hp)
1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe (Slightly modified to about 230 hp)
2006 Mustang GT (stock 300 hp)

I have spent many hours at Milan Dragway in Centerline, MI, drag racing my cars and my friends cars. Great fun.
I have also built and raced shifter karts for several years, so I know a thing or two about what is needed to get through a turn quickly.

But I live in the real world with rain, gravel and snow, where my wife needs to drive every day along with my children in the car. I personally have no need for a RWD family sedan, but everyone knows there is one coming for the NA market.

I will instead choose AWD everytime. You simply can't beat it for performance and safety. In any weather. Besides, who needs to power oversteer through city streets anways?

mowog
12-18-2007, 07:57 PM
I own 4 cars so I can cover choices. if I had to own 1 car it would be a Territory Turbo which is an AWD. But I dont regard AWD as the be all and end all of safety. Its just that the Territory Turbo is a great car.

I can imagine with the kind of cars (US suspension tunes) you guys get that RWD is not as good. In Australia we have a more sporty suspension tunes compared to soft suspension tunes your market demands. I believe the G8 will be dumbed down so not bruise your soft US behinds...

ndwariga
12-18-2007, 10:00 PM
I own 4 cars so I can cover choices. if I had to own 1 car it would be a Territory Turbo which is an AWD. But I dont regard AWD as the be all and end all of safety. Its just that the Territory Turbo is a great car.

I can imagine with the kind of cars (US suspension tunes) you guys get that RWD is not as good. In Australia we have a more sporty suspension tunes compared to soft suspension tunes your market demands. I believe the G8 will be dumbed down so not bruise your soft US behinds...
The US is a huge market, there is a car for every bottom, from cushy to boney