Small displacement diesel pickups in 2009? [Archive] - Ford Inside News Community

: Small displacement diesel pickups in 2009?


44 mpg by 2010
06-14-2009, 08:49 AM
Well Ford (and the NewDet2), you have had your chances for a number of years now ...

It seems that one of those "foreign" badges is going to have a 2.2 liter clean common rail diesel in the US BEFORE ... 2010 !

The "mid-size trucks and SUVs will offer a blend of ruggedness, performance and affordability highlighted by a clean-burning diesel engine built with top-of-the-industry green technology from Bosch."

"The diesel-only truck will use a slightly modified version of Mahindra's "mHawk"' 2.2-liter inline four cylinder diesel engine. It's expected to have fuel economy ratings as high as 30 mpg and 1.3-ton hauling capability. Final U.S. pricing for the pickup is expected in September."

I forgot to mention that the pickup will be available as both a 2/4 door configurations with 4WD/2WD options and a 6 speed A/T.

Oh, and there is an SUV in there somewhere ... did not see a schedule though.

Well, FOMOCO how and when will you respond??? [Ford had the chance with the Tourneo/Transist/Connect ... but the US got a gasoline engine with 33% lower mpg.]

Unless Ford is far ahead of where I think they are ... their only salvation is probably a "24 month waiver of import restrictions for EU vehicles with fuel economies 52 mpg(Imperial) [approximately 44 mpg(US)] combined cycle and greater" from President Obama/Congress.

Otherwise, it looks like Detroit just gave away another market segment, a rather large (and previously profittable) one at that.

It is VERY SAD to see ALL of the missed opportunities ...

BTW, this will even put pressure on Honda, Hyundai/Kia, Mazda, Nissan, Saab, Toyota, and Volvo.

Sorry Ford and NewDet2, that is the nature of a competitive market place. Particularly ... when crude oil and fuel prices increase more than 50% in less than 6 months for the second time in less than 2 years.

At least that is the way I see it ...

page2171
06-14-2009, 07:02 PM
Here is the truck the OP is talking about...

http://jalopnik.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2008/08/mahindra-pickup.jpg

makes the Ranger look like a cutting edge design.

2b2
06-15-2009, 12:23 AM
...It seems that one of those "foreign" badges is going to have a 2.2 liter clean common rail diesel in the US BEFORE ... 2010 !


totally understandable (if not commendable) imho

the U.S. has been such a mish-mash of conflicting regulations that the only mfgs who WOULD take the lead in diesels are foreign mfgs who have something going on elsewhere to pay the development costs (see 1)
ALSO
there's a huge cost involved with intro'ing any new product due to support costs (parts/training) which Mahindra has to do anyway since they're starting from ZERO here (see 2)


1 - Ford DOES have foreign developments to bring here
but considering they're the only Detroit mfg still independent of the gov'mint
THAT by itself justifies/allows them IMHO to pick their own timing on EVERYTHING ELSE!!! (imho)

2 - imho Ford has a whole diesel program being orchestrated for most bang for their buck (note: it IS still THEIR buck!)
a 'suggestion':
try hanging out with some Mercury fans - - we might be able to teach you a thing or two about patience ;)

ps - NOT saying you should stop ranting for what you believe;
NEVER GIVE UP!

ndwariga
06-15-2009, 01:20 AM
Ford has exellent diesels in Europe, GM own V Motori common rail tech inovator of italy.

theoldwizard1
06-15-2009, 09:32 AM
...
1 - Ford DOES have foreign developments to bring here
but considering they're the only Detroit mfg still independent of the gov'mint
THAT by itself justifies/allows them IMHO to pick their own timing on EVERYTHING ELSE!!! (imho)

2 - imho Ford has a whole diesel program being orchestrated for most bang for their buck (note: it IS still THEIR buck!)
a 'suggestion':
try hanging out with some Mercury fans - - we might be able to teach you a thing or two about patience ;)


FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) by Ford Marketing and not wanting to "look bad" by Ford Powertrain Management (diesel goes completely contrary to their EcoBoost strategy) is what is keeping small diesels from US Ford products.

Tahoe
06-15-2009, 03:03 PM
FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) by Ford Marketing and not wanting to "look bad" by Ford Powertrain Management (diesel goes completely contrary to their EcoBoost strategy) is what is keeping small diesels from US Ford products.
emmissions standards including the Urea injectors into catalyc converters make diesels a tad more expensive.

44 mpg by 2010
06-15-2009, 04:22 PM
emmissions standards including the Urea injectors into catalyc converters make diesels a tad more expensive.

We can agree that that there is an incremental cost ... BUT ... HOW MUCH?

EcoBoost adds about $750 to $1,000 to the cost of a standard comparable gasoline machine. And that is for approximately a 15% improvement in fuel economony. IF ... anyone has better numbers ... PLEASE SHARE!

The incremental cost increase for the 2010 VW Jetta DIESEL is contained within the $1,300 price increase above its' comparable gasoline equivalent. But in this case you get a GREATER THAN 30% (maybe up to 40%) improvement in fuel economy.

A $300 to $550 cost increase does not seem to be very much for an additional 15~25% improvement in fuel economy compared to the EcoBoost.

Now could you please clarify your concerns about the cost penalty for clean diesel?

theoldwizard1
06-16-2009, 04:18 AM
...Now could you please clarify your concerns about the cost penalty for clean diesel?

You forgot to add diesel fuel prices are back to about where the should be, 15-20% lower than regular gasoline.

There is currently no worldwide shortage of diesel, so there is no reason for US refiners to be shipping massive amounts of it off shore (too maximize their profits) like they were a year ago.

FUD and saving face. Unfortunately Mulally is not enough of a "car guy" to call bullshit.

Then again, Ford really does not have the cash to "quickly" turn one of their fine EU 4 cylinder turbo diesels into one that meet US regs either.

44 mpg by 2010
06-16-2009, 07:07 AM
You forgot to add diesel fuel prices are back to about where the should be, 15-20% lower than regular gasoline.

There is currently no worldwide shortage of diesel, so there is no reason for US refiners to be shipping massive amounts of it off shore (too maximize their profits) like they were a year ago.

FUD and saving face. Unfortunately Mulally is not enough of a "car guy" to call bullshit.

Then again, Ford really does not have the cash to "quickly" turn one of their fine EU 4 cylinder turbo diesels into one that meet US regs either.

What would happen IF ... Ford could talk the Feds into temporarily (say 24 months) waiving import restrictions on "light trucks" that get greater than 35 mpg(US) combined average?

This strategy could provide FORD with positive market presence/experience/sales, cashflow, and 24 months to achieve emissions/safety compliance.

Could that work?

2b2
06-16-2009, 10:24 AM
What would happen IF ... Ford could talk the Feds into temporarily (say 24 months)...
...Could that work?

forgot to say
gov'mint regulation doesn't handle "temporary" very well...
...once they get a law on the books, they don't give it up easily

theoldwizard1
06-16-2009, 10:29 AM
gov'mint regulation doesn't handle "temporary" very well...
...once they get a law on the books, they don't give it up easily

I concur !

Mr Green Obama only wants batteries !

IMHO, the smartest thing the US could do is come up with a plan to merger emission standards with EU. It would save hundreds of millions.

44 mpg by 2010
06-16-2009, 12:24 PM
2b2 is correct about the difficulty of unwinding laws once established. That is why I suggested a temporary "waiver" or suspention. No laws would have to be changed. An executive order maybe?

While batteries/hybrids/EVs may be great for some people's applications ... there are others that need to "haul" and "tow". So there must be multiple strategies ... including mass transist included in the ultimate solution. There even needs to be a "balanced mix" of gasoline and diesel demand to "match" refinery output yields ... to minimize "waste" surpluses.

And oldwizard1 is correct about homologizing US/EU emissions (and safety) standards. Although, I believe his cost savings estimate is low, probably more in the range of USD$ 100s of BILLIONS (maybe $BILLION plus) over 10 years between the US and EU!

Of course this is just my opinion ....

MyFordDreams
06-17-2009, 11:07 PM
I love this thread! I've blogged several times about the M&M Scorpio and it's Diesel and lamented the fate of the Ranger in North America over the last few years. The last Thai developed Ranger has 2 great Diesels that pass Euro Emissions, and while I'm encouraged by the prospect of the T-6 and it's 175hp 180 lb ft EcoBoost powerplant, a Diesel would make so much more sense.