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: Lincoln Axes Small Car Plans



ausrutherford
10-31-2011, 04:52 AM
Lincoln Axes Small Car Plans
To focus all compact energies on new CUV
FordInsideNews.com (http://www.fordinsidenews.com/)
October 31, 2011
By: Austin Rutherford


http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/gallery/data/500/medium/LincolnCConcept_02_copy.jpg

Its Halloween. In the spirit of death, we bring you this . . .

Sixteen months ago, Ford Motor Company set out on an ambitious goal to not only give life into the Lincoln brand, but to make it as prestigious as the likes of Audi and BMW. It was at this time, Ford decided it would bring seven new or heavily revised vehicles within four years to Lincoln. Part of those plans involved a production version of the Concept C. Reportedly named the MkC, it was to feature a Ford Focus derived platform and a host of new technologies to set it apart from the likes of the Audi A3 and Lexus CT.

Shortly thereafter, Ford brought together a Lincoln-only team filled with luxury experts, designers and engineers that would work on new Lincolns and Lincolns only.

According to two independent sources within FoMoCo, FIN has learned that Lincoln has killed off plans for the MkC. Instead, Lincoln will focus all compact energies upon their new CUV, which is internally named the MkD. According to one source, Ford feared that the MkC would cannibalize sales of the larger MkZ sedan.

This is not the only bad news coming from Lincoln. According to a separate Ford supplier source, the 2013 Lincoln MkZ has been pushed back yet again. Originally scheduled to launch in the first quarter of 2012, and then for June 2012, the MkZ is now set to arrive in late 2012. The all-new 2013 Ford Fusion is supposedly still on track for a mid-2012 launch.

According to a source who has seen the MkD, the Escape based CUV sports a design that is more of a tall hatch rather than a traditional CUV. When it comes to interior dimensions, it will be slightly less than that of the Escape, suggesting that it could compete with Audi's new Q3. It is not yet known whether the MkD name will make it to production.

There is good news in the pipeline, however. FIN has learned Lincoln is working on two new V-6 engines, powered by EcoBoost. Initial information suggests the new mills could generate 400 and 425 horsepower, respectively. At this time few details are known.

With this news and that of Lincoln strongly considering a RWD flagship sedan (http://www.fordinsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?7891-Sources-Lincoln-Considering-RWD-Flagship-Sedan), it appears Lincoln is chasing to for a more upscale and profitable lineup.

Just a child growing up, Lincoln is learning what will and will not work in the luxury field and how they plan to approach it. As its first victim, the compact car is allegedly no longer in those plans. Will one ever be? We will have to wait and see.

Logans Run
10-31-2011, 05:08 AM
Good....A warmed over Focus is not where Lincoln needs to be.
Leave the Sub-Compact and small Compact market to Ford.
They should be looking at fixing their current models before branching out and spreading the money too thin.

Andrew L
10-31-2011, 05:39 AM
Interesting.... I wonder if this means they were not happy with using the focus platform? Perhaps they will revisit the idea of a smaller Lincoln down the road. Very good news on the new V6's those are some nice numbers.

falcon lover
10-31-2011, 05:58 AM
I suspect that the compact Lincoln never existed. But i thnk that a compact Lincoln is needed. This car could figth the A3, the 1 series, the Mercedes-Benz B-class, the Mini Cooper...and the derivatives. The next big thing will be the compact luxury cars and crossovers.

TurboS40
10-31-2011, 06:36 AM
Mixed feelings about this. Still digesting all this information. I'll comment more later on.

That's too bad about the MKC. IMHO, it was a true modern Zephyr in concept. Look at the '30's Zephyr concept which became the production model with some adjustments. The C could have been similar with a few alterations. Small and roomy. Still mixed feelings on the D because i'm not an SUV/CUV person. I was one of the few (small percentage) who actually liked the C.

Is it possible that a small Lincoln sedan could end up RWD?? To compete with ATS? That's why the C was dropped?

Is Ford second thinking the death of Mercury and will bring it back from the dead?

CrunkedRL
10-31-2011, 07:16 AM
Hmmm considering the amenities that could be had in a loaded up Focus including active parking assist I think the MkC would've had the potential to become a redundancy unless Ford moved it much more upmarket which as the OP stated had the potential to cannibalize MkZ sales. I still don't know what the direct competitors for the new MkZ is supposed to be....A4...A6...ES...CTS....XTS....LaX....C-Class.....E-Class.....5 or 3 Series? It seems as though the MkZ will need to double duty in two different luxury tier classes until Lincoln finally have their entire business model completely ironed out. I do however feel as more luxury car companies begin to produce smaller more efficient offerings this is definitely something that Lincoln should revisit at a later time.

ausrutherford
10-31-2011, 07:26 AM
Hmmm considering the amenities that could be had in a loaded up Focus including active parking assist I think the MkC would've had the potential to become a redundancy unless Ford moved it much more upmarket which as the OP stated had the potential to cannibalize MkZ sales. I still don't know what the direct competitors for the new MkZ is supposed to be....A4...A6...ES...CTS....XTS....LaX....C-Class.....E-Class.....5 or 3 Series? It seems as though the MkZ will need to double duty in two different luxury tier classes until Lincoln finally have their entire business model completely ironed out. I do however feel as more luxury car companies begin to produce smaller more efficient offerings this is definitely something that Lincoln should revisit at a later time.

MkZ basically will split the baby in half between the A4 and A6 just as the MkS splits the A6 and A8 in half.

falcon lover
10-31-2011, 08:07 AM
MkZ basically will split the baby in half between the A4 and A6 just as the MkS splits the A6 and A8 in half.

Is not enough. Lincoln with just 2 cars ( and one of them very unsuccesful and dated), against this (only the 4-5 doors sedans):

Audi: A3, A4, A6, A8
Acura: TSX, TL; RL
Lexus: CT, HS, IS, ES, GS, LS
Buick: Verano, Regal, LaCrosse
Cadillac (soon): ATS, CTS, XTS

and , if not the direct competition, the top luxury markes:

BMW: 3 series, 5 series, 7 series
Mercedes-Benz: C-class, E-class, CLS-class, S-class

The bottom of the lines, the compacts cars segment, has the fast grown pace in the market. Mercedes-Benz and BMW is planning a numerous versions of their small plattforms (C-class, A and B-class, and BMW 1 and sub 1-series) .

john1168
10-31-2011, 08:33 AM
GOOD! This was a stupid idea from the start.

LincolnFanFl
10-31-2011, 08:37 AM
Hmmm..a Lincoln MKS with 400 or 425hp will certainly be a vehicle to enjoy.

2b2
10-31-2011, 12:14 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-gI8fEeRlS0/TNBfa0l4WfI/AAAAAAAAAG4/DrQvef3BvBY/s1600/tragedy_and_comedy_masks.gif
glad the "Abomination" is dead
sad they're putting off my MKE sporty C-car (imho waiting for the G.C-M's longer wheelbase to be in production domestically)


howevers:
...There is good news in the pipeline however. FIN has learned Lincoln is working on two new V6s powered by EcoBoost, which will carry around 400 and 425 hp each...
this doesn't sound right
even a 3.0v6EB should top out at 390hp
& I still thinking (Nano!) a bit smaller = 2.7
which ought = 350hp max
and I half expected a low-boost version too


...This is not the only bad news coming from Lincoln. According to a separate Ford supplier source, the 2013 Lincoln MkZ has been pushed back yet again. Originally scheduled for Q1 2012, and then for June 2012, the MkZ is now set to arrive in late 2012. This will however not affect the Ford Fusion, which remains on schedule for June...
this could really bum me out = mercrucifixion of Lincoln
unless
the MKT spyshots' reaction dictated ANOTHER rethink of every changeable part


posting elsewhere I got even more doubtful,
"imho, it really sounds like there's a sizeable, possibly suspicious, "pause" of Lincoln plans after the debut of the MKZ at NAIAS ... like upto 12 months or more

having been incinerated once with the murder of Mercury,
I'm much more willing to doubt Fomoco's commitment to Lincoln's survival "

2b2
10-31-2011, 12:20 PM
GOOD! This was a stupid idea from the start.
STOOPID AND UGLY!


...They should be looking at fixing their current models before branching out and spreading the money too thin.
imho there's another kind of spreading too thin - as in too THIN Differentiation - which Lincoln ALREADY SUFFERS from = Z & X


Interesting.... I wonder if this means they were not happy with using the focus platform? Perhaps they will revisit the idea of a smaller Lincoln down the road....
imho someONE with sense (or psych meds that work) finally shouted down all the other inmates at Fomoco about how STOOPID-UGLY the frog/ABOMINATION was


I suspect that the compact Lincoln never existed.
But i thnk that a compact Lincoln is needed.
The next big thing will be the compact luxury cars and crossovers.
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif I feel that away about the small Merc that even Suppliers were LIED TO about
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif +1
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif & imho NO MFG has developed a real "defining" winner yet - Lincoln can be First


Is it possible that a small Lincoln sedan could end up RWD?? To compete with ATS? That's why the C was dropped?
Is Ford second thinking the death of Mercury and will bring it back from the dead?
imho there's a lot of near-confusion about how small is small
the 3-series is much bigger than what used to be considered "C-segment"...practically the same length as the Mustang
even "I" am not ranting for this YET...planning on 2020my - but THANKS for the thought!

TurboS40
10-31-2011, 03:17 PM
Lincoln needs more cars(sedans/coupes/convertibles) and less quasi-truck types (ie SUV/CUV) please.

MaxLegroom
10-31-2011, 03:31 PM
I went to the videos, now on YouTube, that showed the Lincoln concept C. It was an interesting idea, and one where most of the technology is here, almost here, or only a few years away. Had they decided to build the C exactly as it was, it could have had a chance, as it was unique, if nothing else. However, one interesting note about the concept is that she seems to be doing everything but driving in the video. I'd have loved to see her listen to a e-mail where her boss rants about her being late for a deadline, though. Since eva was reading a bit of emotion into the e-mail, it would be exciting to see the look on Natasha's face while such a message is read to hear in traffic.

Failing a really close following of the Concept C, there probably shouldn't have been a small Lincoln, and again, I'm glad to read about the plans for a new flagship being under consideration.

ottav
10-31-2011, 04:50 PM
What about the Lincoln Aviator?

ausrutherford
10-31-2011, 06:01 PM
What about the Lincoln Aviator?

No news since we learned it was planned months ago.

2b2
10-31-2011, 07:00 PM
to me it really seems like Nothing new is going on sale during most of 2012

won't surprise me if the nextgen MKZ does NOT make an appearance at NAIAS

T'Cal
11-01-2011, 05:58 AM
Ford models have moved upscale considerably so reviving the Mercury brand is probably not in the cards, sadly. Focusing on the higher end of the market is smart. I hate the alpha naming Lincoln has adopted and wish that it would revive actual names. That said, the MKZ needs to be much more different looking in and out than the Fusion on which it's based. The Mondeo-based models should move these siblings forward. The MKS just bores me. I know that with the Ecoboost engine is fast, but it has no soul. Same with the Taurus S-H-O (I refuse to call it SHOW; that's ridiculous sounding). While I realize that the MKS-EB/S-H-O are better in almost every performance measurement than the Marauder, the big Mercury's V8 roar made up for a lot. That's a big part of what's missing on the newer sedans - proper aural stimulation. With more unique styling and a skosh more room, a revised MKS could be more successful. A fullsized sedan above the MKS based on the next gen Mustang is the next smart step for Lincoln. I recommend using the Mustang's 3.7L V6 and 5.0L V8 but with direct injection for more power and fuel economy. A model that is all out luxury and performance could have a version of the Boss 302 engine again with DI. As for the SUVs, the MKX needs updating and a diet. The MKT is just plain ugly; it should be completely reskinned to look more SUV-like along the lines of the Explorer, and renamed Aviator. The Navigator needs to update its appearance and engines. It's ghastly looking in front and the old 5.4L V8 is torque-less. The 3.5L EB should be optional over the 5.0L V8 and the 6.2L should be available for a LWB premium model.

Andrew L
11-01-2011, 06:09 AM
Ford models have moved upscale considerably so reviving the Mercury brand is probably not in the cards, sadly. Focusing on the higher end of the market is smart. I hate the alpha naming Lincoln has adopted and wish that it would revive actual names. That said, the MKZ needs to be much more different looking in and out than the Fusion on which it's based. The Mondeo-based models should move these siblings forward. The MKS just bores me. I know that with the Ecoboost engine is fast, but it has no soul. Same with the Taurus S-H-O (I refuse to call it SHOW; that's ridiculous sounding). While I realize that the MKS-EB/S-H-O are better in almost every performance measurement than the Marauder, the big Mercury's V8 roar made up for a lot. That's a big part of what's missing on the newer sedans - proper aural stimulation. With more unique styling and a skosh more room, a revised MKS could be more successful. A fullsized sedan above the MKS based on the next gen Mustang is the next smart step for Lincoln. I recommend using the Mustang's 3.7L V6 and 5.0L V8 but with direct injection for more power and fuel economy. A model that is all out luxury and performance could have a version of the Boss 302 engine again with DI. As for the SUVs, the MKX needs updating and a diet. The MKT is just plain ugly; it should be completely reskinned to look more SUV-like along the lines of the Explorer, and renamed Aviator. The Navigator needs to update its appearance and engines. It's ghastly looking in front and the old 5.4L V8 is torque-less. The 3.5L EB should be optional over the 5.0L V8 and the 6.2L should be available for a LWB premium model.

While I agree with some of your ideas I think the 6.2 in the Navigator is a mistake. This would hurt Lincoln for CAFE. Besides I have heard reports that the 3.5 EcoBoost has better performance than the 6.2 in the F150

ottav
11-01-2011, 09:55 AM
No news since we learned it was planned months ago.

Do you think it is still in the plans? If so, what model year? I had three Mountaineers until 2011 when I got an MKX, but I miss the 3rd row. Didn't feel the MKT's third row was useful enough.

ausrutherford
11-01-2011, 10:15 AM
Do you think it is still in the plans? If so, what model year? I had three Mountaineers until 2011 when I got an MKX, but I miss the 3rd row. Didn't feel the MKT's third row was useful enough.

No idea. Could be either way.

T'Cal
11-01-2011, 10:51 AM
Wow! If that's the only issue you have then I'll compromise right away. Dump the 6.2L V8 recommendation and use the EB 3.5L V6 to power the Navigator! GET THIS DONE RIGHT AWAY, FORD!

2b2
11-02-2011, 12:14 AM
^ T'Cal, from what I've read, imho the 6.2 didn't turn out anywhere near as good as Ford hoped



Do you think it is still in the plans? If so, what model year? I had three Mountaineers until 2011 when I got an MKX, but I miss the 3rd row. Didn't feel the MKT's third row was useful enough.
the thing that's frustrating me most about Lincoln just now is
afaik they could bring out a new version of anything based on a Ford platform WHENEVER they wanted to - the factories are up & running
(by "they" I mean Fomoco
"Lincoln" is just a marketing channel/fiction as far as I'm concerned
tho that MIGHT be changing)

So IF Lincoln gets Nothing new during 2012cy except the nextgen MKZ...at the end of 2012...which could easily be delayed even further imho,
then anything else is just waiting for conditions/situation that imho we have have no way of knowing about -- so far.

short version = I wouldn't hold my breath

scford58
11-02-2011, 07:34 AM
Littlest Lincoln Likely To Be Luxurious Compact Crossover

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1068083_littlest-lincoln-likely-to-be-luxurious-compact-crossover

Lincoln plans to roll out an onslaught of seven new products over the next three years, each designed to underscore the luxury brand's separation from the mass-market Fords on which they're based.

The smallest Lincoln yet will be a compact crossover, using the same underpinnings--but none of the sheetmetal--of the 2013 Ford Escape that will be formally unveiled two weeks from now at the 2011 Los Angeles Auto Show.

The unnamed crossover will be Lincoln's first-ever compact vehicle, though the brand showed a design study for a futuristic compact hatchback design, the C Concept, at the 2009 Detroit Auto Show.

Its styling is said to be more of a "tall hatch" than a traditional crossover, and it may be slightly smaller than the Escape in overall dimensions. That means the hatchback C Concept could actually reflect some design cues for the new vehicle in profile.

The rumored model name, MKD, continues Lincoln's confusingly similar string of "MK"-prefixed titles.

But with smaller luxury crossovers a growing segment of the market--think Audi Q5, BMW X3, and Mercedes-Benz GLK, not to mention the Lincoln's more likely rival, the Cadillac SRX--the brand chose to go where the buyers are.

Lincoln says it will offer "standout product design, class-leading technology" and both "top performance and fuel efficiency" in its powertrains.

Andrew L
11-02-2011, 09:57 AM
The MKX competes with teh SRX. This new compact crossover would slot below the MKX.

TurboS40
11-02-2011, 10:49 AM
Cadillac currently has nothing to compete with the proposed McD...a mean MKD unless that changes at LA or Detroit shows.

Not to beat a dead horse but I'm going to anyway. I still see the potential in the Concept C. (and probably the only one who does) All the vehicle needs is a little modification here and there. It's already a 6 passenger car so all you would need to do is find a platform to fit if the Focus is not being a donor.(either RWD or F or allWD The front clip could be made longer to allow for a bigger engine and the rear needs more of a trunk to fill in the design. What you will have is a powerful 6-passenger vehicle in the true "Town Car" spirit to satisfy those of us who want regular cars.

Ok, so I'm whining here. I don't want practical and want elegance, prestige, beautiful looks and performance. Too bad Ford can't put as much attention and heritage into Lincoln as they do with the Mustang Brand.

The more I think about what has happened here the more I think that Ford might be turning Lincoln into the former PAG Jaguar. Wasn't PAG to net a profit of $5B by 2005? I thought I read that somewhere years ago. AND it never happened. Is this a set up to fail? I'm all for prestige and all but you need to get the younger generation into the Brand. Audi, BMW and MB are doing it so I guess we wait for news from the LA show in a few weeks then take it from there.

2b2
11-02-2011, 01:12 PM
...Not to beat a dead horse but..
...Ok, so I'm whining here...
I'll see your whining and raise you another dead horse
http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/beatdeadhorse.gifhttp://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/beatdeadhorse.gif

for the Cuvlet
MKD > D > "just barely above 'fail'**
MKG > G-spot > oo-la-la
&
then
MKE for the littlest sedan > 'rhymes' with XKE > very sporty, including the 350hp Nano 2.7v6 to be sold as the global nextgen RS


&
the most encouraging thing I've heard about Lincoln in AGES:
two guys on the Cash Cab, tv gameshow, thought the President's limo was a Lincoln instead of a Caddy



** not to mention all those "Did you get fries with that?" jokes

Logans Run
11-03-2011, 05:17 AM
I've read on other sites that the Lincoln CUV seating configuration would be different from the Escape's. I doubt they could fit three wide in the front, even with a push button trans and no console. That could mean it will have 2 bucket seats in the back, with the front console extending all the way through.

It is also said to look more like a tall hatch than a small CUV. What that brings to mind is the Pontiac Vibe/Toy Matrix.

cire_1wb
11-03-2011, 06:42 AM
I've read on other sites that the Lincoln CUV seating configuration would be different from the Escape's. I doubt they could fit three wide in the front, even with a push button trans and no console. That could mean it will have 2 bucket seats in the back, with the front console extending all the way through.

It is also said to look more like a tall hatch than a small CUV. What that brings to mind is the Pontiac Vibe/Toy Matrix.

My main concern with this type of product: Is Lincoln in any position to gamble on introducing what appears to possibly be a "segment buster" type of vehicle in the compact end of the market? This size class is new to Lincoln and the brand is jumping into this new class with something unconventional. Based on how it's designed, executed, and marketed, it will either be something that makes Lincoln cool, hip, and relevant or it could potentially be one huge flop. I admire Lincoln for trying something different and bold, but I still wonder if this is the right step for this brand at this time. I guess we will see. I do sincerely hope that it is a success.

I think it would have been better to keep Mercury around and give this type of product to this brand instead. For some reason, Mercury seems like a more appropriate brand for a "segment buster" type of vehicle, especially in the compact size class.

I'm hoping that the C Concept is not the design inspiration for this vehicle. The last thing that Lincoln needs at this point is another disfigured and awkwardly shaped vehicle in its lineup (aka "MKT Part II").

2b2
11-03-2011, 12:42 PM
I've always thought of the Lincoln KuGa (MKG?) as being VERY car-like
(co-ordinating with a more-sporty-than-roomy Lincolnette sedan (MKE?).
&
imho, there is NO segment yet - with some small Lux cars being bigger, 3er/C-class/Verano; or less-Lux 1er/B-class/A3
so = whitespace
where Lincoln has the opportunity to Lead The Way.

I was on-board with the Small-Merc-Theory
with Mercury moving up to equal Lincoln-trim on the Premier(& Ultimate) trims on the smaller and Hybrid models**.

...I also hate the "C"concept***...and think it unfair to the MKT (regardless of its faults) to compare it to "the Abomination"


** tho the styling/ambiance would have gone way beyond that
*** that 6-person seating was always BOGUS imho - wouldn't work
even the mainstream sedans seat 4, not really 5


...That could mean it will have 2 bucket seats in the back, with the front console extending all the way through...
I remember some old coupes-or-hatchbacks that have a Lounge-like rear compartment with the seats flowing onto the rear door panels (GLC? or older Thunderbirds?)
&-along with
maybe having a sliding/folding rear center console? so it could be set-up either way...
a Lincolnette sedan on the longer Grand C-Max wlb could really offer unique amenities imho
while a coupe/hatch on the regular Focus wlb would work for an "RS"
(see Mission: Lincoln!)

Andrew L
11-04-2011, 07:03 AM
I really hope MKD is not its real name...

GlobalCarDealers
11-04-2011, 09:17 PM
Small Cars with great style, design along with the luxurious comfort will surly be a nice family car. One would love to drive it.

cire_1wb
11-05-2011, 09:20 PM
I've always thought of the Lincoln KuGa (MKG?) as being VERY car-like
(co-ordinating with a more-sporty-than-roomy Lincolnette sedan (MKE?).
&
imho, there is NO segment yet - with some small Lux cars being bigger, 3er/C-class/Verano; or less-Lux 1er/B-class/A3
so = whitespace
where Lincoln has the opportunity to Lead The Way.

I was on-board with the Small-Merc-Theory
with Mercury moving up to equal Lincoln-trim on the Premier(& Ultimate) trims on the smaller and Hybrid models**.

...I also hate the "C"concept***...and think it unfair to the MKT (regardless of its faults) to compare it to "the Abomination"


** tho the styling/ambiance would have gone way beyond that
*** that 6-person seating was always BOGUS imho - wouldn't work
even the mainstream sedans seat 4, not really 5


I remember some old coupes-or-hatchbacks that have a Lounge-like rear compartment with the seats flowing onto the rear door panels (GLC? or older Thunderbirds?)
&-along with
maybe having a sliding/folding rear center console? so it could be set-up either way...
a Lincolnette sedan on the longer Grand C-Max wlb could really offer unique amenities imho
while a coupe/hatch on the regular Focus wlb would work for an "RS"
(see Mission: Lincoln!)

This "more than a hatchback, but not quite a crossover" type of vehicle is very tricky to execute and market correctly. Lincoln will need to be very careful with the design and marketing on this one. I know the article stated that the Lincoln compact vehicle would possibly be a competitor to Audi's Q3; the biggest difference is that Audi is still developing a next gen A3 car line too. Audi isn't pinning all its future small vehicle business on a segment buster. The worst case scenario is that Lincoln will launch a compromise type of product that ends up appealing to no one. I truly hope Lincoln nails it and it is a success for the brand.

As far as a sedan lineup, I would really like to see Lincoln go head to head with Audi:
* A3 sedan competitor on the Focus C-platform. This sedan would be shorter in length and height than the Focus; it would sort of straddle the subcompact and compact size classes. Dimensions: 104.3" WB, 174.0" L, 57.0" H, 72.0" W. Link: http://www.netcarshow.com/audi/2011-a3_concept/800x600/wallpaper_09.htm, Source: Net Car Show.
* A4 sedan competitor on the EUCD-platform. This sedan would be shorter in length and height than the next gen Fusion/Mondeo; it would sort of straddle the compact and midsize size classes. Dimensions: 109.3" WB, 184.0" L, 57.5" H, 74.0" W. Link: http://www.netcarshow.com/audi/2013-a4/800x600/wallpaper_06.htm, Source: Net Car Show.
* A6 sedan competitor on the D3 platform. This sedan would be shorter in length and height than the current MKS and Taurus; it would sort of straddle the midsize and large size classes. Dimensions: 112.9" WB, 194" L, 58.0" H, 76.0" W. Link: http://www.netcarshow.com/audi/2012-a6/800x600/wallpaper_2a.htm, Source: Net Car Show.
* A8 sedan competitor on the D4 platform. Dimensions: 117.9" WB, 204.0" L, 59.0" H, 78.0" W.
Lincoln sedans would feature AWD and Ecoboost engines as standard equipment. Link: http://www.netcarshow.com/audi/2011-a8/800x600/wallpaper_42.htm, Source: Net Car Show.

All Lincoln sedans would feature AWD and Ecoboost engines as standard equipment.

I don't want Lincoln's sedans to take on Germanic styling. I want Lincoln's sedans to be elegant, stately, and uniquely American in design. I just used Audi's sedan lineup as a model to illustrate what I would like to see in Lincoln's lineup.

2b2
11-05-2011, 10:48 PM
...very tricky to execute and market correctly.
...very careful with the design and marketing on this one.
...The worst case scenario is that Lincoln will launch a compromise type of product that ends up appealing to no one...
I agree that a Neither-fish-Nor-fowl vehicle (like the MKS ...& T) is courting disaster
S = neither sporty nor formal-flagship
T = big ovl but little 3rd row room (also neither sporty nor formal)
but
wonder about your plan of using in-between sizes:
neither midsize nor full,
neither compact nor midsize,
etc
(judging by GMI, no Cadillac buyer has a clue about size; so guess they can get away with it .... not really)

not sure if my own small-Cuv^idea also qualifies as a "Neither-Nor" http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif

I'm kinda thinking of my MKG & MKE being 2 versions of One vehicle
(a bit like my approach to GRwdP flagship Lincolns)
one = roomier less sleek = the Cuv (MKG)
one - very sporty with less room inside = the sedan-&-coupe/hatch (MKE)
perhaps
with styling meant to make them look the same?
rather than the quite different silhouettes of the Focus & Escape

hmm...
does any other Luxury Brand IGNORE Cars in preference for Cuv/Suv's like Lincoln imho does ???
(the only one worse is ... LandRover http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/stirpot.gif )

cire_1wb
11-06-2011, 02:12 AM
hmm...
does any other Luxury Brand IGNORE Cars in preference for Cuv/Suv's like Lincoln imho does ???
(the only one worse is ... LandRover http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/stirpot.gif )

Since Tata owns Jaguar and Land Rover, I sort of assumed that the 2 brands complemented each other; Jaguar focuses on cars and Land Rover focuses on utility vehicles (at least that's how I tend to view that arrangement).

cire_1wb
11-06-2011, 02:30 AM
I agree that a Neither-fish-Nor-fowl vehicle (like the MKS ...& T) is courting disaster
S = neither sporty nor formal-flagship
T = big ovl but little 3rd row room (also neither sporty nor formal)
but
wonder about your plan of using in-between sizes:
neither midsize nor full,
neither compact nor midsize,
etc
(judging by GMI, no Cadillac buyer has a clue about size; so guess they can get away with it .... not really)


My plan was simply trying to follow the Audi playbook. The A3 is based on the Golf platform (like my A3 competitor would be based on the Focus platform) and it sort of lands on the larger side of the subcompact size class or smaller side of the compact size class (I think my dimensions for Lincoln's A3 competitor actually land pretty close to the A3 Concept, if I remember correctly). My A4 competitor is roughly about the same size of Audi's A4 or Volvo's S60, which are considered compact executive sedans (these compact executive sedans tend to land on the larger side of the compact class). I then tried to match my A6 and A8 competitors up size-wise to Audi's sedans. As far as platform selection, I "up-sized" the platform so that the Lincoln sedans would be more advanced, sophisticated, spacious, and luxurious than the Ford brand sedans. For example, the subcompact Fiesta is on FoMoCo's B-platform while Lincoln's A3 competitor would be on FoMoCo's C-platform.

I'm not sure how well Lincoln's A3 competitor would actually do in the US market, but I think it would be an important addition to Lincoln's lineup if FoMoCo decided to expand the brand into foreign markets.

Andrew L
11-06-2011, 05:04 AM
Since Tata owns Jaguar and Land Rover, I sort of assumed that the 2 brands complemented each other; Jaguar focuses on cars and Land Rover focuses on utility vehicles (at least that's how I tend to view that arrangement).

For now, I have heard rumblings of a Jaguar CUV in the works which imo is stupid.


My plan was simply trying to follow the Audi playbook. The A3 is based on the Golf platform (like my A3 competitor would be based on the Focus platform) and it sort of lands on the larger side of the subcompact size class or smaller side of the compact size class (I think my dimensions for Lincoln's A3 competitor actually land pretty close to the A3 Concept, if I remember correctly). My A4 competitor is roughly about the same size of Audi's A4 or Volvo's S60, which are considered compact executive sedans (these compact executive sedans tend to land on the larger side of the compact class). I then tried to match my A6 and A8 competitors up size-wise to Audi's sedans. As far as platform selection, I "up-sized" the platform so that the Lincoln sedans would be more advanced, sophisticated, spacious, and luxurious than the Ford brand sedans. For example, the subcompact Fiesta is on FoMoCo's B-platform while Lincoln's A3 competitor would be on FoMoCo's C-platform.

I'm not sure how well Lincoln's A3 competitor would actually do in the US market, but I think it would be an important addition to Lincoln's lineup if FoMoCo decided to expand the brand into foreign markets.

While I thought the C Concept looked bad... I think tweaking a few things made it look a lot better like raising the shoulder higher and fixing the back... I thought the concept of the C was great. I wonder if they will ever bring back the bench seat. Something like that might actually have been a hit in Europe since it is a popular idea of holding as many people as possible in a vehicle. 6 in a vehicle that small is great, plus with the wider platform it would handle better.

2b2
11-06-2011, 12:55 PM
^ imho
the Abomination's 6-passenger basic premise is faulty




...hmm...
does any other Luxury Brand IGNORE Cars in preference for Cuv/Suv's like Lincoln imho does ???
(the only one worse is ... LandRover http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/stirpot.gif )
Since Tata owns Jaguar and Land Rover, I sort of assumed that the 2 brands complemented each other; Jaguar focuses on cars and Land Rover focuses on utility vehicles (at least that's how I tend to view that arrangement).
at first that was meant to be facetious (see 'stirpot' smilie)
but the point that only LR's cars is worse than Lincoln's 2
is in fact true
(at least if we give Cadillac credit for the not-here-yet ATS & XTS)


...I'm not sure how well Lincoln's A3 competitor would actually do in the US market, but I think it would be an important addition to Lincoln's lineup if FoMoCo decided to expand the brand into foreign markets.
AGREE!!

asrapid
11-06-2011, 01:56 PM
I'm not sure how well Lincoln's A3 competitor would actually do in the US market, but I think it would be an important addition to Lincoln's lineup if FoMoCo decided to expand the brand into foreign markets.

Well with present lineup they would fail miserably in Europe. Now if they ever go with small RWD sedan, big luxurie sedan, small A3 competitor,maybe they would have a little chance to be even considered as alternative to luxurie cars here. But i don't see what Lincoln has to offer, at present time or even in near future, what German trio doesn't already offer. Actually even Cadillac has better chance here in Europe than Lincoln IMO.

GlobalCarDealers
11-06-2011, 08:22 PM
Agree with your views. Small cars are nice form the mileage and also performance point of view.

TurboS40
11-09-2011, 03:04 PM
"While I thought the C Concept looked bad... I think tweaking a few things made it look a lot better like raising the shoulder higher and fixing the back... I thought the concept of the C was great. I wonder if they will ever bring back the bench seat. Something like that might actually have been a hit in Europe since it is a popular idea of holding as many people as possible in a vehicle. 6 in a vehicle that small is great, plus with the wider platform it would handle better.[/QUOTE by Andrew L]"



I've been saying this right along about the C. I still like the design and package concept. All the C needs is a little fine tuning. I also compared the C to the original Zephyr concept way back first shown at the Worlds Fair under the Briggs name. That design looked as quirky as the current C but the body was tuned here and there and the production 1936 Zephyr was born looking a lot better. I still think that can be done with the C.

I guess I deleted a little too much at the beginning of the quote when I clicked "Reply with Quote". The first half above was what Andrew L wrote. I was commenting in the 2nd paragraph. It's been a long day..i'm going to the gym.

Snickers
01-13-2012, 02:53 PM
I think Lincoln should Build a C class sedan on the current 107 inch wheelbase CD platform. The Acura TSX has 106.6 inch wheelbase, and an overall length of 185.6. Lincoln could build a C Class on the CD platform in those dimensions. And The Platform is Already engineered for AWD and Hybrid.

It would also Avoid being tagged as a gussied up Focus.

I don't think it would steal sales from an MKZ that is 192-3 inches in length

2b2
01-13-2012, 04:21 PM
^ I'd prefer the littlest Lincoln be built on the C2 platform which has wheelbases of 104.25" to 109.8(G.C-M) so far
(also to leave a bit of a gap for a 3er/Mustang sized sportsedan & coupecabrio)
and
tho AWD would be more-than-nice,
they could do a "Virtual-Awd" like the not-out-yet Volvo S60 Hybrid, where the back wheels are pure electric

Snickers
01-13-2012, 05:04 PM
^ I'd prefer the littlest Lincoln be built on the C2 platform which has wheelbases of 104.25" to 109.8(G.C-M) so far
(also to leave a bit of a gap for a 3er/Mustang sized sportsedan & coupecabrio)
and
tho AWD would be more-than-nice,
they could do a "Virtual-Awd" like the not-out-yet Volvo S60 Hybrid, where the back wheels are pure electric

I remember continetal showing their bolt on electric rear drive module. But I'm not sure it would be as cost effective as building off the current platform.

What I suggest is Taking the Current MKZ, Trimming the rear over hang,keeping the greenhouse,adding the chrome window surround, then going with the front design and taillights from the next gen MKZ.

I'm terrible at photoshop. But roughly something like.3155 (Imagine the MKZ Concept front and tailights)

2b2
01-13-2012, 05:34 PM
^ I never heard of a bolt-on electric drive, Snickers, Link?

IF it was possible to keep using the old CD3 platform (the factory/ies will change over), don't believe using any of the old sheetmetal would add up to a perception-plus;
also the new Z's front probably wouldn't 'bolt-on' since it's a very different platform.
I think it's an interesting idea IF it had been done already like back at the last MCE
OR if there was another CD3 factory somewhere in the world that'd keep building it.

re: photoshop
I don't use it - too difficult imho. You might like to check out PaintShopPro's old versions (free) from before Adobe bought-&-killed them ... MUCH simpler. I use (ancient) ver 3.11

Snickers
01-13-2012, 06:05 PM
^ I never heard of a bolt-on electric drive, Snickers, Link?

IF it was possible to keep using the old CD3 platform (the factory/ies will change over), don't believe using any of the old sheetmetal would add up to a perception-plus;
also the new Z's front probably wouldn't 'bolt-on' since it's a very different platform.
I think it's an interesting idea IF it had been done already like back at the last MCE
OR if there was another CD3 factory somewhere in the world that'd keep building it.

re: photoshop
I don't use it - too difficult imho. You might like to check out PaintShopPro's old versions (free) from before Adobe bought-&-killed them ... MUCH simpler. I use (ancient) ver 3.11

It was a while ago (years) I'm having a look round. Someone showed a concept gas fwd/hybrid electric rear. It was Continental Automotive's system. The conecpt was 2006's Saab BioPower Hybrid. http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/03/31/002565.html I can't find the article on Conti's system. But I think the way it went was they would manufacture the entire rear axle with electric drive.(rear drive unit) It would then be sent to the manufacturing plant..

Does Ford have a product plan for Hermosillo?

2b2
01-13-2012, 06:57 PM
^ afaik, Hermosillo is running at capacity with just the Fusion & MKZ
& will just keep-on keeping-on
http://www.fordinsidenews.com/forums/images/smilies/joyous.png

& TY for bolt-on electric info & link

Snickers
01-13-2012, 07:13 PM
^ afaik, Hermosillo is running at capacity with just the Fusion & MKZ
& will just keep-on keeping-on
http://www.fordinsidenews.com/forums/images/smilies/joyous.png

& TY for bolt-on electric info & link

For the NG Fusion/MKZ is all production moving to Flat Rock or just some?

2b2
01-13-2012, 07:45 PM
^ Flat Rock is adding supplemental production to Hermosillo's

saw a post recently that makes think it'll be online by the end of this year, 2012