Taurus to be Killed Again??? [Archive] - Ford Inside News Community

: Taurus to be Killed Again???


TaurusSHO
03-21-2013, 07:26 PM
Speaking of the Taurus, another rumor making the rounds right now is that the Taurus won’t be back after this generation. Poor margins and difficulties during the development process meant that the Taurus has been scrapped part way through the development process, and Ford is content with the Fusion acting as its flagship sedan. If this situation holds true, that leaves Chevrolet and Chrysler as the vanguards of the large American sedan.

Link (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/03/chart-of-the-day-full-size-sedan-freefall/#more-481933)


Someone posted this article over at MT and I was not expecting this at all! This is the first I have heard of this rumor, though on the plus side they didn't say anything about where this rumor came from. I barely survived the first time they killed my favorite car, I don't think I could make it through all that pain and suffering again. :yikes:


Ford, this better NOT be true! :angry: Can anyone here do some research to see if there's any merit to this rumor? It does kinda goes along with the idea that the Chicago plant is closing. I always thought it would put a strain on Flat Rock to have the Fusion and the Taurus being produced on the FWD side of things. Of course it also gives some credence to the thought that the MKS will be RWD.

SP1966
03-21-2013, 07:43 PM
Hate to say it but dropping the full size car makes sense in this day and age. The average family that actually needs the space are far more likely to move up into an Explorer than to a Taurus, full size sedans are just a niche segment anymore.

Unless you're talking about the luxury market, then there does seem to be demand, although CUV's are making great inroads there too. And in Ford's case this makes sense, rather than continue to sell tarted up Fords, just leave that segment for Lincoln! The reality for Lincoln is they cannot charge the same as the Germans for their cars, at least not yet, so that puts them uncomfortably close to the top of the line Ford. By dropping the Taurus Lincoln can in fact cover a wider range of price points, from mid-level to very expensive and not simply be taking sales from, or losing sales to, Ford.

I really don't see a negative here, other than TaurusSHO's disappointment! :)

TaurusSHO
03-21-2013, 08:07 PM
But there is still a market for full size sedans. There is still a sizeable amount of sales for them. It wouldn't even be that unreasonable to make assuming the next Explorer will be on the CD4 platform as well.

2b2
03-21-2013, 08:55 PM
...I was not expecting this at all! This is the first I have heard of this rumor, though on the plus side they didn't say anything about where this rumor came from. I barely survived the first time they killed my favorite car, I don't think I could make it through all that pain and suffering again. :yikes:
us Mercury fans will be here for you, TaurusSHO
first step: Never EVER Give UP!
...even if
Mr. Mulally says, "The Taurus is an important part of our lineup", (aka Kiss Of Judas).


...It does kinda goes along with the idea that the Chicago plant is closing...
...Of course it also gives some credence to the thought that the MKS will be RWD.
--afaik there aren't any "unneeded" plants anymore / even if Taurus went "On Hiatus", the Explorer will continue. Kinda thought the Fusion should and still might move to Chicago.
--even tho I wouldn't agree with it, imho if/WHEN the MKS is replaced with the "CD4+rwd" Continental; FoMoCo will prolley give the Ford Brand a version as a Tbird flagship

ausrutherford
03-21-2013, 09:01 PM
I highly doubt that.

Andrew L
03-21-2013, 09:34 PM
Mulally made it a huge point to bring the Taurus back. I doubt he would let that name go away.

scford58
03-22-2013, 12:47 AM
I remember Mr Mullay saying that the Taurus name has too much equity to be discontinued. But if they did give Taurus a vacation maybe it could be replaced with an Impala competitor. Four doors and rwd of course. Galaxy 500, Fairlane 500 or even Falcon comes to mind. Maybe Torino GT........?

falcon lover
03-22-2013, 08:45 AM
I hope this rumor will not be true. I love the Taurus, and Ford needs a big sedan. But if the Taurus dissapear to open the space to a new RWD sedan, welcome the changes!!!

TurboS40
03-22-2013, 09:17 AM
There will always be a market for large sedans (if designed for better fuel economy etc) being some of us (for example, me) would not even consider an SUV type vehicle. Taurus might vanish in name but could return under a differnet name.

I'm betting on the Taurus name staying.

Andrew L
03-22-2013, 09:27 AM
Yea the smallest I will go is a midsize because I am a tall person. I have a difficult time fitting in compacts, **** I would be open to a full size on my next purchase. My only complaint with my LS is the small back seat. Specially with my seat all the way back.

ejd1984
03-23-2013, 09:34 AM
Sounds like the Taurus name might be going away, but not the full size car segment. The fusion is current Ford's sedan star, and the name could be moved to the next-gen full-sized sedan. With another newly named compact replacing the Fusion.

Though this could all just be internal debate/options that are leaking out too early. I wouldn't get all that upset - just yet.

Falc'man
05-06-2013, 02:38 AM
It's platform may not be replaced but the badge may, or will, survive.

The large car is a niche, any way you look at it these days. For practicality the large car can't compete with SUVs, in most scenarios.
For affordability and resale it won't compete with the smaller cars, which do the same amount of work in most cases.
Sales trends back all that up.

Where it shines is in this niche category, where you have a large RWD saloon/grand tourer/sports sedan.

Chev have one (SS). Chrysler do as well in 300C, and so do all the other notable automakers apart from Audi. Even the Koreans are getting in on the act.

Why shouldn't Ford?

If you were to apply the most power you could to a large car, would it be driving the fronts, or the rears?

If Fomoco had a choice between letting go a large fwd platform or a the very last RWD platform, which way do you think they would go? And does Lincoln really want a large FWD sedan?

By replacing it's platform with a RWD one Taurus (or call it what you like) will effectively become a little more desirable than what it already is, imo.

T'Cal
05-06-2013, 08:44 AM
The current platform lends itself better to a CUV or SUV, like the Explorer what with its taller stance. The current Taurus is not nearly roomy enough for its exterior size; the last version on the same platform was so much bigger inside and in the trunk. Ford and Lincoln need a real full size car that is wide enough to hold 5-6 adults comfortably.

Bloggin
05-06-2013, 04:34 PM
The Taurus is not going anywhere. The New Taurus and New MKS will ride on the new longer wheelbase version of the same platform as the Fusion. Currently the Taurus has the same 112" wheelbase as the 2013 Fusion. Taurus has the Impala, 300 and Avalon to compete with. There is a big market for sedans larger than midsize and under $40k.

Falc'man
05-06-2013, 09:51 PM
The New Taurus and New MKS will ride on the new longer wheelbase version of the same platform as the Fusion.
My source is also saying it won't, at least not in the USA.

2b2
05-06-2013, 11:04 PM
^ clarification, Falc'man?
Do you mean the the Taurus *name*?
or also the MKS *name*?
or the use if a "CD4+3" platform?

2b2
05-07-2013, 01:20 AM
The emphasis is on platform, (CD4+3); I'm lead to believe USA won't get another large FWD after current Taurus. The CD4+3 is not meant for your market, nor ours.

This info was given before it surfaced on line, so there's cred to this particular source.

As for the Taurus name itself I don't know. Seeing there's no hard evidence of a GRWD I would say the following is a guess only; the large (rwd) sedan that you'll get may still be called Taurus.
WOAH!
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/drop.gif
NOT what I expected!!

thinkthinkthink...
ok
China has GOT to get stretched sedans (Link) (http://www.fordinsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?12706-CD4-3-Mule-Spied-Car-amp-Driver)
but
no offense, this awfully hard to take in
&
I still have to wonder if the Ford Brand and Lincoln will be joined-at-the-hip in the large sedan segment
or
if 'whatever' is happening only pertains to one Brand so things could be both 'true' and 'false' at the same time

Falc'man
05-07-2013, 01:58 AM
WOAH!
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/drop.gif
NOT what I expected!!

thinkthinkthink...
ok
China has GOT to get stretched sedans (Link) (http://www.fordinsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?12706-CD4-3-Mule-Spied-Car-amp-Driver):thumb:


but
no offense, this awfully hard to take in
&
I still have to wonder if the Ford Brand and Lincoln will be joined-at-the-hip in the large sedan segment
or
if 'whatever' is happening only pertains to one Brand so things could be both 'true' and 'false' at the same timeI think that both respective segments require rwd. As mentioned earlier the large car's sales are diminishing so it can't become a niche high performing grand touring sports saloon without rwd, and, Lincoln need a RWD saloon not a FWD. The case for RWD is strong, especially "at the hip".

Taurus is how much more roomier than a Fusion?

All-Or-Nothing
05-07-2013, 03:49 AM
*hint*


Taurus and "New" MKS will be moving to a RWD platform.

Andrew L
05-07-2013, 07:36 AM
*hint*


Taurus and "New" MKS will be moving to a RWD platform.

I have a hard time believing that Taurus will go RWD. Taurus has never been RWD in fact it was the Taurus that replaced the RWD LTD with FWD.

Bloggin
05-07-2013, 01:18 PM
The large sedan under $40k market is over 300k units in the US as of 2012. We have already seen the test mule for the MKS using a 2013 Fusion body, with wheel wells cut out to accommodate the extended wheelbase. Current Taurus wheelbase is 112"...same as the 2013 Fusion.

The new 2015 MKS will get a wheelbase(more rear passenger room) between 114" to match the E-Class/Audi A6(FWD), and 116" to match the 5-Series. 116" wheelbase makes more sense, as the MKS can serve as executive car in China, and better serve as Lincoln's flagship car(for now). LS has 116" wheelbase, 7-series 120", S-Class 124". To resolve the issue with people freaking out about the MKS being FWD, rumor has it that the MKS will come with standard AWD, which now has the same mpg as the FWD model. Along with hybrid MKS.

Avalon and Impala(same platform as Cadillac XTS) both have a smaller 111" wheelbase. Which is why the longer Impala has huge front and rear overhangs, and looks like it's wheelbase is too small for the car. A longer wheelbase Taurus will give it class leading interior space, rear seat legroom, and should offer Hybrid and Energi plug in.

2b2
05-07-2013, 03:06 PM
*hint*

Taurus and "New" MKS will be moving to a RWD platform.I have a hard time believing that Taurus will go RWD. Taurus has never been RWD in fact it was the Taurus that replaced the RWD LTD with FWD.
wouldn't it be weird/amazing if the CD4+3 Fwd/Rwd Poll (http://www.fordinsidenews.com/forums/showthread.php?8946-the-CD4-3-Fwd-Rwd-Poll) was right?!?
http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/drop.gif
altho...
a key part of that is having BOTH Fwd & Rwd on the same basic architecture
which
includes a 'solution' to "Taurus has never been RWD", as Andrew points out.

&
the current MKS's overall length of 204.1" is squarely in the largeLux group
207.4" A8-L
206.8" XJ lwb
206.5" S-class long wlb/U.S.
205.3" 7-series lwb
203 ?" S-class short wlb/euro
202.6" A8 swb
200.0" Lexus LS
199.8" 7-series swb

T'Cal
05-07-2013, 05:59 PM
I like the RWD rumor!

TaurusSHO
05-07-2013, 06:22 PM
Hmm I have a hard time believing the Taurus will go RWD, but it would be a dream come true if it really happens!

All-Or-Nothing
05-07-2013, 08:15 PM
I should clarify........


Taurus and MKS will be RWD biased. The MKS will be getting a substantial HP upgrade and the current AWD set-up won't handle it. The new Haldex (is what I'm told) system will be able handle far more torque than what it currently is able to handle.

I'm hearing 450hp for the MKS and the reason the SHO didn't get that 400hp upgrade we were hearing about is because the current driveline wasn't suitable when you factored in the torque. Fun times are on their way gentlemen.


*can't wait till suicide doors come back to Lincoln*

2b2
05-07-2013, 09:38 PM
I should clarify.......
http://home.surfree.com/~pauld/OrElse.gif......




...http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif

Falc'man
05-07-2013, 11:05 PM
I should clarify........


Taurus and MKS will be RWD biased. The MKS will be getting a substantial HP upgrade and the current AWD set-up won't handle it. The new Haldex (is what I'm told) system will be able handle far more torque than what it currently is able to handle.

I'm hearing 450hp for the MKS and the reason the SHO didn't get that 400hp upgrade we were hearing about is because the current driveline wasn't suitable when you factored in the torque. Fun times are on their way gentlemen.


*can't wait till suicide doors come back to Lincoln*Thanks for the info.
Is it a fresh rwd platform, or an updated existing platform.

2b2
05-08-2013, 12:32 AM
...an updated existing platform.
nudge nudge?
wink wink?

All-Or-Nothing
05-08-2013, 04:13 AM
Thanks for the info.
Is it a fresh rwd platform, or an updated existing platform.


I have heard the new Mustang and a Lincoln version will be on a modified S197 platform. I have also heard there is a new AWD/FWD platform in the works that can accomodate RWD also.....

I will keep prodding my "Lincoln Homie" for more tidbits.

He did say the new MKS is gonna be quite the runner.

Falc'man
05-08-2013, 04:14 AM
nudge nudge?
wink wink?
Spell it out for me, I'm slow :-D

Edit: just saw the above post, thanks for that.

Same source tells me S550 is all-new when asked about the platform. All-new to Mustang but maybe not all-new outright.

The guy from Mustang6g also thinks it's not the current S197 platform that S550 is based off.

E8 platform was made awd-proof with Orion, which is codename for current FG.

Yes, if you could get clarification from your friend it would be great.

mjd1001
05-08-2013, 08:41 AM
But there is still a market for full size sedans. There is still a sizeable amount of sales for them. It wouldn't even be that unreasonable to make assuming the next Explorer will be on the CD4 platform as well.

There is a market, but it is limited. It is hard for many to consider a $30,000 full size Sedan when Honda is making the Accord at near full size dimensions (sitting inside one, in many ways it feels LARGER than the Lacrosse and Taurus) and you can get into one for $24,000 while getting 35 mpg and pretty good performance (0-60 in the 7s.)

It is hard to say make the Fusion slightly larger and then slot something in below it (make the Focus larger also) but...the only other option I see for long term success in this segment is the next Taurus has to be slightly smaller with exterior dimensions, but make better use of the interior, and keep the cost down a little bit. How to do that, I don't know...but I do know the few friends and/or coworkers I know that have Accords or like them (and at my job, yes, there are quite a few Accord Drivers) say they love the new Accord because it gives them full size interior without the full size price.

Falc'man
05-08-2013, 09:06 AM
Yes, the Accord's big inside. Some say it's roomier than Falcon, and Falcon is very roomy.

Fusion's outselling Taurus. Relative to the size of your market how well is the Taurus selling?

One thing I like about Taurus is it's styling. It's got some fundamental Ford design cues that I really admire, and I'm not talking about the Kinetic design language in it, either. The taillights and the rear quarters, as well as the waistline and C-Pillar are all class, and overall a good looking car.

2b2
05-08-2013, 03:34 PM
^&^^ re: Accord
WHICH Accord?!?
_wlb____ovl____w____ht____
110.2 - 194.3 - 72.7 - 58.1 - 2008
109.3 - 191.4 - 72.8 - 57.7 - 2013 newest
107.9 - 189.5 - ...... - ...... - 2004,5

they've been all over the place with EXTerior sizing


I have heard the new Mustang and a Lincoln version will be on a modified S197 platform. I have also heard there is a new AWD/FWD platform in the works that can accomodate RWD also.....

I will keep prodding my "Lincoln Homie" for more tidbits.

He did say the new MKS is gonna be quite the runner.Yes, if you could get clarification from your friend it would be great.

you're "killing" me/us, A-or-N!
imho there's a huge difference between developing several platforms and creating an architecture that can produce BOTH F-Awd and RWD on the SAME assembly line while sharing enough parts to keep Volume-Profit

a F-Awd MKS with a gen2 3.5EB even tuned-down to only 450hp from the RWD-version's 490hp is finally getting into Audi's "RStuv" heights


Spell it out for me, I'm slow :-D
just thought YOU were implying The Falcon
http://www.fordinsidenews.com/forums/images/smilies/angel.gif

Same source tells me S550 is all-new when asked about the platform. All-new to Mustang but maybe not all-new outright.

The guy from Mustang6g also thinks it's not the current S197 platform that S550 is based off.

E8 platform was made awd-proof with Orion, which is codename for current FG...
imho this will be arguable thru-out most the lifetime of the S550

imho2, if I'm right that (one of) the main differences from the SN95/S197 is the designed-in FlexAbility to produce a close-in-size sportsedan on the platform on the same assemblyline AT THE SAME TIME;
THEN
I'll consider it new-enough to be ALL-NEW
(&
if the sportsedan requires a different version, like the Edge's platform is different from the last Fusion's;
THEN I woN'T...

...unless it's OVER 200 lbs lighter http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)

2b2
05-09-2013, 03:35 PM
is a T-6 frontend with a Territory's passenger compartment related news?
does pointing out it's close to Aviator(Explorer) size make it more related?

Seven-seat Ranger-based SUV caught testing in Melbourne - Sydnye Morning Herald
Stephen Ottley, Motoring Writer
May 9, 2013
http://images.smh.com.au/2013/05/09/4258954/mule_729-620x349.jpg (http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/spied-fords-rugged-territory-rival-20130509-2ja81.html)
Ford Australia's own Territory is coming under threat from inside its Broadmeadows bunker.

And here's proof that the blue oval's long-rumoured seven-seat SUV version of the Ranger ute is under development in Australia.

...At first glance it looks like a Territory from behind, but closer inspection reveals it is riding on the Ranger’s more rugged underpinnings...

...Despite strong sales of the Territory, its fate is linked to the underperforming Falcon, because the two vehicles share the same basic underpinnings. If the Falcon doesn’t continue beyond 2016 then neither will the Territory, so Ford Australia will need to find a new large SUV to fill that important spot in its line-up...

...Asked directly about the prospects of a Ranger-based SUV, Graziano didn’t give any details away.

“It’s really going to depend on whether that segment continues at its present rate or whether its going to start declining for a number of different reasons,” he said.

“That’s what we’re looking at now, and then we can look at what’s in the portfolio from Ford that we could slot in there.”...

SP1966
05-09-2013, 08:28 PM
you're "killing" me/us, A-or-N!
imho there's a huge difference between developing several platforms and creating an architecture that can produce BOTH F-Awd and RWD on the SAME assembly line while sharing enough parts to keep Volume-Profit

a F-Awd MKS with a gen2 3.5EB even tuned-down to only 450hp from the RWD-version's 490hp is finally getting into Audi's "RStuv" heights


I agree, there is little likelihood that the next gen MKS is on a dedicated RWD platform. I do support the rear-biased AWD for the performance version and there is nothing wrong IMO with FWD for the base Granny-n-Gramps version. So long as it is rear biased and the drive train can deal with class competitive power than count me as on board! 99% of the people running around in non-performance luxury cars couldn't care less from which end the power is delivered. The key question is can the AWD deliver the driving experience that a performance buyer seeks?

ehaase
05-11-2013, 09:00 AM
I think there will be at least one more generation of Taurus on the CD4 platform, debuting for the 2016 model year. The Accord may have a full size interior but it has a compact size trunk. Ford may develop a small Lincoln coupe off the Mustang platform, but I doubt Ford will ever develop a large RWD sedan. I would prefer Ford resurrect the Thunderbird name if it ever develops a RWD car larger than the Mustang.

2b2
05-11-2013, 04:19 PM
I agree, there is little likelihood that the next gen MKS is on a dedicated RWD platform......I doubt Ford will ever develop a large RWD sedan...
yeah
that's why once I gave up on a Falcon/Territory-descendant GlobalRwdPlatform;
I started ranting for a modular approach where a longitudinal frontend could be grafted onto CD4/CD4+3

The key question is can the AWD deliver the driving experience that a performance buyer seeks?
just imho
& only for the USA
I cannot believe any significant percent of LARGE** Luxcar buyers require RWD to satisfy their REAL driving experience - ie they may think-&-convince-themselves RWD is superior but if you could stick them in a topnotch F-based-AWD without them knowing it, they couldn't 'tell' for 99% of their driving (applies to un-revoked licenses only)
** LARGE = approx. 200" ovl or more

...I would prefer Ford resurrect the Thunderbird name if it ever develops a RWD car larger than the Mustang.
(re-worded:) imho a successful Tbird has become the smallest-possible, most difficult target in autodom = near impossibility
+
IF successful, would be a serious risk of killing Lincoln
all just imho

Bloggin
05-14-2013, 03:12 PM
What will the new Taurus look like?

Based on the current design theme, it should look like a longer, wider, even more masculine/athletic Fusion sedan. Bringing the Taurus more upscale, and competing with not just with Impala and Avalon, but at the (SEL becomes Titanium) Titanium trim level, competing with luxury cars like Infiniti G50, 5-Series and E-Class, but $10k less in price.

With the Taurus SHO going head to head with the performance models of the Asian and European models.

While the new Lincoln MKS sharing the same longer wheelbase platform, remains a pure luxury car, powerful, loaded with advanced technology.

nruggiero
05-14-2013, 03:21 PM
What will the new Taurus look like?

Based on the current design theme, it should look like a longer, wider, even more masculine/athletic Fusion sedan. Bringing the Taurus more upscale, and competing with not just with Impala and Avalon, but at the (SEL becomes Titanium) Titanium trim level, competing with luxury cars like Infiniti G50, 5-Series and E-Class, but $10k less in price.

With the Taurus SHO going head to head with the performance models of the Asian and European models.

While the new Lincoln MKS sharing the same longer wheelbase platform, remains a pure luxury car, powerful, loaded with advanced technology.
You pretty much nailed it. The new Taurus should be amazing considering it will be a 30th anniversary model.... Wow, 1986 doesn't seem too long ago.

2b2
05-18-2013, 01:19 AM
belatedly...What will the new Taurus look like?

Based on the current design theme, it should look like a longer, wider, even more masculine/athletic Fusion sedan...You pretty much nailed it. The new Taurus should be amazing considering it will be a 30th anniversary model.... Wow, 1986 doesn't seem too long ago....Bringing the Taurus more upscale, and competing with not just with Impala and Avalon, but at the (SEL becomes Titanium) Titanium trim level, competing with luxury cars like Infiniti G50, 5-Series and E-Class, but $10k less in price.

With the Taurus SHO going head to head with the performance models of the Asian and European models.

While the new Lincoln MKS sharing the same longer wheelbase platform, remains a pure luxury car, powerful, loaded with advanced technology.

I'm thinking if the CD4+3 Taurus is only 3" longer wheelbase & 3" wider (per the mule spyshots);
it'll need styling that's quite different ... maybe Kinetic3**?
&
still think the main difference will be having an available v6
tho with more powerful gen2 EBs, dunno if that's enough of a difference
&
"While the new Lincoln MKS sharing the same longer wheelbase platform, remains..."
...a complete mystery(s) to me http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/images/smilies/confused.gif


**edit
from KZStang @ Mustang6g.com (http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61&page=7) re: future design themes
- Razor cut headlamps
- A single trapezoid grille leading up to the edge of the hood
- Overall lighter look (what they call "silhouette innovation" and "perceived efficiency")
- Lightweight pillars and a teardrop cabin where the lines on the side disappear at a vanishing point somewhere around 100 yards behind the car.

All words directly from Ford.

Vincent
05-18-2013, 07:28 AM
Normally they test cars with covers all over the body...why aren't they doing that in Australia..looks like the team at ford have already displayed their forthcoming models...