Ford Inside News Community - Reply to Topic
Thread: Can 2014 C-MAX Hybrid get back to 47 mpg? Reply to Thread
Title:
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Inside News Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



  Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

  Topic Review (Newest First)
08-19-2013 10:46 PM
Bloggin
Re: Can 2014 C-MAX Hybrid get back to 47 mpg?

Here is another one from a lady that admits to lots of high speed on the freeway on a daily basis:

"Just so you all know, with my update on my Ford fusion hybrid, I've been getting 41.2 mpg...up from 39.3. I drive 160 miles round trip daily"

Even though the hybrid drive can work up to 85mph, with driving close to 80mph for over 100 miles, she will use up most of the available battery power, and is benefiting from the battery power generated when she does cost or slow for other traffic at the higher speeds.
08-19-2013 10:38 PM
Bloggin
Re: Can 2014 C-MAX Hybrid get back to 47 mpg?

Looking at 2014 Fusion Hybrid Inventory, it seems production did not start until 8/12. The new model year production start up date was July 15. With only color and a couple options changes from 2013 to 2014, why a month delay?

I think it has to do with the 2014 Fusion getting the transmission drive ratio changes to improve highway mpg like the C-MAX hybrid. Which is only logical, since it is the same hybrid drivetrain. The Fusion Hybrid was already set to receive the software updates. I think Ford did not mention the hardware aspect to keep focus off the Fusion Hybrid mpg.

Also, it seems the software update is working for 2013 Fusion Hybrid owners. Ford facebook page had this post from one owner:

"I couldn't be happier. The gas doesn't kick in as quickly. I haven't noticed any drop off in the air conditioning - most of my miles are central Alabama to South so its hot hot hot and the air cranks just fine. My mileage is up 7 - 10% on the open road and 10-12% in town."

It's important to note that the 'gas doesn't kick in as quickly' comment has to do with the software change for the throttle response, helping the driver accelerate more smoothly which enables them to stay in electric mode more easily. This is what the ECOMode does in a Prius.

He also offered his mileage from the display:

157.5 Miles - of that there were 71.2 EV miles
47.2 mpg
3.33 gallons of gas used
08-19-2013 10:36 AM
Bloggin
Re: Can 2014 C-MAX Hybrid get back to 47 mpg?

Looking at the technical specs for the 2014 Fusion Hybrid vs 2013 Fusion Hybrid, it seems the 2014 will increase the Hybrid Coolant from 7 Qt to 8.2 Qt. The assumption is that a cooler engine is a more efficient engine.
08-19-2013 09:37 AM
Bloggin
Re: Can 2014 C-MAX Hybrid get back to 47 mpg?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2b2 View Post
Also, wonder if changing the front styling from 'double' to a single grille (like Fiesta) would improve the aerodynamics As Well AS its Looks
I agree....I think that new hood seal is designed to close up that upper grille to push air over the car for better aerodynamics.
08-19-2013 09:34 AM
Bloggin
Re: Can 2014 C-MAX Hybrid get back to 47 mpg?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingsnut View Post
Ford is working on next gen hybrid specific motors, where todays motors are mostly retrofit. Big gains in efficiency are targeted.

Atkinson is efficient at high loads but lacks dynamic range like GTDI can, which is most efficient at low loads. Atkinson is best in HEV applications as the Power Split transmission (+ Electrification) can keep the engine running in its most efficient loads (70-90% Load).

Ford is learning how to best fit cam timing of some of these technologies for optimization, along with other new technologies, EGR cooling, lower friction, etc.

Ford already downsized the Atkinson from 2.5 to 2.0, and it may be time to bring it to 1.5(which also removes taxes in other countries) like 2b2 suggests. Exactly...the electric motor can handle the low end torque, while the Atkinson handles the higher speeds.
08-19-2013 08:56 AM
wingsnut
Re: Can 2014 C-MAX Hybrid get back to 47 mpg?

Ford is working on next gen hybrid specific motors, where todays motors are mostly retrofit. Big gains in efficiency are targeted.

Atkinson is efficient at high loads but lacks dynamic range like GTDI can, which is most efficient at low loads. Atkinson is best in HEV applications as the Power Split transmission (+ Electrification) can keep the engine running in its most efficient loads (70-90% Load).

Ford is learning how to best fit cam timing of some of these technologies for optimization, along with other new technologies, EGR cooling, lower friction, etc.
08-19-2013 12:34 AM
2b2
Re: Can 2014 C-MAX Hybrid get back to 47 mpg?

THANKS for all that info, bloggin!

I'm kinda wondering if Ford could change to OR add an Atkinson-version of the new 1.5 4cyl?

I don't remember the formula I used but figured ^that could make 105hp vs the 2.0's 141hp
but
afaik the software only lets upto 118hp be used most of the time so there might be less difference in performance than it may seem.

Also, wonder if changing the front styling from 'double' to a single grille (like Fiesta) would improve the aerodynamics As Well AS its Looks
08-19-2013 12:01 AM
Bloggin
Can 2014 C-MAX Hybrid get back to 47 mpg?

Ford has a challenge.

After dropping the mpg of the C-MAX Hybrid form 47 city to 45 city, and 47 hwy to 40 hwy, it's clear that Ford engineers are working overtime with modification to the 2014 C-MAX to get as close to 47mpg as possible.

What most don't realize is that the initial New EPA Combined mpg for the C-MAX was 41.

Then Ford implemented the first steps which were all software based, and offered free to all current 2013 Hybrid owners and included with the new 2014 model, which include:

- Increasing the maximum pure electric/hybrid speed to 85 mph from 62 mph, allowing increased use of electric-only mode on the highway

- Optimizing the use of Active Grille Shutters to reduce aerodynamic drag under more driving and temperature conditions including cold weather, during air conditioner use and when the engine coolant temperature is higher

- Reducing the electric fan speed as a function of coolant temperature to minimize the fanís energy consumption

- Shortening engine warm-up time by up to 50 percent to enable electric-only driving and engine shutdown at stops sooner after cold starts

- Optimizing the climate control system to minimize use of the air conditioning compressor and reduce the energy used in cold weather operation

These software updates provided an additional combined 2mpg, which allowed the 2013 C-MAX Hybrid to increase the NEW EPA mpg from 41 to 43 combined, or 45 city and 40 hwy. Owners are reporting a 3-5 combined mpg improvement after the update.

With just 2 short of current EPA city of 47, the biggest area for improvement for the C-MAX is highway mpg. The C-MAX tall design does not help with aerodynamics at 63.9' tall, compared with it's primary competition, the Prius v at 62.0'. Not only does a lower vehicle height help the Prius v with better highway mpg, the small 98 hp engine, offering the power of Ford's tiny 99 hp 1L EcoBoost engine without the additional torque, is what bring the Prius liftback and Prius v combined mpg closer to EPA estimates.

Actually with such a small engine and lower rpm at highway speeds, Prius models exceed the EPA highway mpg by 2 to 7mpg in CR testing.

Then there is the issue of weight. The C-MAX Hybrid weighs 3,607, compared with the Prius v at 3,274. That additional 333 lbs, or 1 mpg per 100lbs already cost the c-MAX Hybrid 3mpg no matter what modifications are done.

So Ford engineers have more work to do to get close to 47 mpg as possible, with the next set of hardware modifications due for the 2014 C-MAX Hybrid to improve efficiency and aerodynamics that include:

- Gearing changes that result in a more efficient transmission drive ratio which should improve city and highway mpg. The expectation is highway mpg will see the greatest improvement by lowering required engine power at highway speeds with lower rpm at cruising speeds. Simulating a smaller engine, but with power available when needed for passing.

- New hood seal, front and rear tire deflectors, A-pillar moldings and Rear lift gate deflectors should directly improve aerodynamics and improve highway mpg.

- New engine oil with reduced friction should improve city and hwy mpg.

With software only updates providing a EPA 2mpg combined improvement, even though Ford is not providing any estimates for the new 2014 C-MAX mpg, the expectation is that hardware updates would provide an additional 3mpg combined. With transmission driver ratio efficiencies and new engine oil, EPA city mpg should improve 2mpg, or back to 47mpg. This is an important marketing tool Ford needs to maintain.

With transmission efficiencies, new engine oil and the other aerodynamic improvements, EPA highway mpg should have the greatest improvement improve at 5mpg, to 45mpg. Bringing the 2014 C-MAX Hybrid to a new EPA 46mpg.

To get there won't be easy, but Ford does have more software/hardware options available to them like more aggressive break regeneration, switching to thinner 215/50R17 from the wider 225/50R17. Prius v standard tire is 205/60R16 with upgrade to 215/50R17.

Either way, 3mpg is not much to ask for with the many hardware updates for the 2014 C-MAX. But I would not put it past Ford Engineers to bring the C-MAX Hybrid all the way back to 47mpg combined. I bet Ford can do it!

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome