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Ford's Lincoln Won't Catch BMW, Lexus Anytime Soon: Doron Levin

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#1 ·
Ford's Lincoln Won't Catch BMW, Lexus Anytime Soon: Doron Levin
(Bloomberg) -- To qualify as a flagship that can fight the best of BMW, Mercedes, Lexus and Cadillac a sedan must be quick and competent. It's the job of the rear wheels to power the car. At least that's conventional wisdom among auto aficionados. Ford Motor Co. would like to challenge that thinking with its new $38,000 all-wheel-drive Lincoln MKS, which was unveiled yesterday at the LA Auto Show in Los Angeles.
Whether buyers of the BMW 5-Series, Mercedes E-Class, Lexus 350GS or Cadillac STS will consider Lincoln a true luxury make may bear on Ford's efforts to rebound from last year's $12.6 billion loss and a battering of its balance sheet.
Two weeks ago, Ford said that it was working on a new rear- wheel-drive chassis, which presumably will be ready in a few years and serve as the basis for several car models, including a new Lincoln sedan.
Ford needs that chassis yesterday. Management turmoil and a failed strategy to enlist Jaguar, Land Rover and Aston Martin as the automaker's premier brands combined to cause the delay. Aston Martin since has been sold; Jaguar and Land Rover are on the auction block.
Underachieving LS

Bloomberg
 
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#2 ·
Cadillac has it's own path and Lincoln has one as well.
One is blazing along clearly, the other is just OK. Cadillac sales finally made so progress with the very good CTS. Lincoln has some very good products now and much more later.

This article is just another opinion, like those that appear in this forum.
Sales will tell the story. As I slide around in Mi weather this morning from snow, and anticipate the many months of it to come, I have to wonder how beneficial RWD would be to the many northern climate customers. AWD is nice but expensive (even more expensive for GM customers) and many don't really need that much.
 
#3 ·
I have to question the sanity but more important, the objectivity of the author when he equals the STS to the E Class and 5 Series. He furthers reinforce my point about his objectivity when he says that the Lincoln LS "was badly outclassed and sold poorly", and, that Ford used "mediocre engineering for the LS" when the general consensus is that they used excellent engineering on the LS (if anything a bit too expensive to produce) and we all know that the LS sold as hot cakes during its first 3 to 4 years. Ford did something even worse, they left the car to soldier on without help (updates and improvements) and eventually it got outclassed, just now from the beginning.

What needs to be disclosed is that Doron Levin is not a car reviewer, but an industry analyst. His opinion on the MKS does not concern me because no one has yet driven the car let alone tested it thoroughly, but I have to acknowledge that the title of his note annoyed me because Lincoln has yet to state that BMW and Lexus are their target.

I'll wait for the reviews.
 
#4 ·
"To qualify as a flagship that can fight the best of BMW, Mercedes, Lexus and Cadillac a sedan must be quick and competent."

How does he even know if the MKS is quick or confident, or that the MKS will be the only flagship sedan for that mattter? Does he not think that an AWD Twin-Force Lincoln will not be quick? He don't know anything actually, other than FWD will be in the base model of the MKS, and with that small bit of information, he forcasts a failed attempt by Lincoln.

This article by Levin is simply his prognostication of course, and the "cavalry" he speaks of for RWD saving the Lincoln brand, has not exactly done wonders for the STS sales numbers, which is in the same class. I presume the MKS will easily outsell it. The CTS is a great car by Cadillac, but it's sales increases are not because it is RWD, they are because it is a handsome American luxury sport sedan. If it was competent and FWD, I suspect sales would be similar, because it is a well engineered car. Heck, sales might actually have increased more if it were FWD, based on STS -vs- DTS sales.
 
#5 ·
Wingsnut said:
Cadillac sales finally made so progress with the very good CTS. Lincoln has some very good products now and much more later.

Linclon Sales -Oct YTD





<TABLE borderColor=#ca4500 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width=624 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD width=70 bgColor=#ffffff height=14>
2007
</TD><TD width=69 bgColor=#ffffff height=14>2006
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE borderColor=#ca4500 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width=624 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD width=70 bgColor=#ffffff height=14>112,678












</TD><TD width=69 bgColor=#ffffff height=14>98,260










</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

</B>
Cadillac Sales Oct YTD
<TABLE borderColor=#ca4500 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width=624 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD width=70 bgColor=#ffffff height=14>2007</TD><TD width=69 bgColor=#ffffff height=14>2006</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE borderColor=#ca4500 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width=624 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD width=70 bgColor=#ffffff height=14>176,249










</TD><TD width=69 bgColor=#ffffff height=14>187,049










</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>






I always wonder where you get the idea that Lincoln is any better than Cadillac. Clearly Cadillac is ahead.
Meanwhile, I agree Ford is finally taking Lincoln in the right direction. But the Jury is still out on the MKS. Its not Just a big Taurus with AWD.

As for the north east and sales, BMW and Mercedes do pretty well there. And California is the big luxury Market. And RWD rules there and cadillac has more serious traction than any Luxury brand now, especially with the Escalade and the new CTS
 
#6 ·



Linclon Sales -Oct YTD





<TABLE borderColor=#ca4500 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width=624 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD width=70 bgColor=#ffffff height=14>
2007
</TD><TD width=69 bgColor=#ffffff height=14>2006
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE borderColor=#ca4500 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width=624 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD width=70 bgColor=#ffffff height=14>112,678












</TD><TD width=69 bgColor=#ffffff height=14>98,260










</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

</B>
Cadillac Sales Oct YTD
<TABLE borderColor=#ca4500 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width=624 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD width=70 bgColor=#ffffff height=14>2007</TD><TD width=69 bgColor=#ffffff height=14>2006</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE borderColor=#ca4500 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width=624 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD width=70 bgColor=#ffffff height=14>176,249










</TD><TD width=69 bgColor=#ffffff height=14>187,049










</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>






I always wonder where you get the idea that Lincoln is any better than Cadillac. Clearly Cadillac is ahead.
Meanwhile, I agree Ford is finally taking Lincoln in the right direction. But the Jury is still out on the MKS. Its not Just a big Taurus with AWD.

As for the north east and sales, BMW and Mercedes do pretty well there. And California is the big luxury Market. And RWD rules there and cadillac has more serious traction than any Luxury brand now, especially with the Escalade and the new CTS
I don't think I ever said Lincoln sales are more than Caddy, but their success lately shows more. Look at the numbers you just posted. Lincoln has seen a much great ytd increase from 2006 to 2007, where caddy has seen a big decrease. Think about Caddy having a much more more complete lineup, and lincoln just getting started and it's safe to say that Lincoln will continue this positive trend.
 
#7 ·
I don't think I ever said Lincoln sales are more than Caddy, but their success lately shows more. Look at the numbers you just posted. Lincoln has seen a much great ytd increase from 2006 to 2007, where caddy has seen a big decrease. Think about Caddy having a much more more complete lineup, and lincoln just getting started and it's safe to say that Lincoln will continue this positive trend.
I would say both are blazing
 
#8 ·
I don't think I ever said Lincoln sales are more than Caddy, but their success lately shows more. Look at the numbers you just posted. Lincoln has seen a much great ytd increase from 2006 to 2007, where caddy has seen a big decrease. Think about Caddy having a much more more complete lineup, and lincoln just getting started and it's safe to say that Lincoln will continue this positive trend.
Cadillac's sales went up too when they "first got started" back 6 years ago. Lincoln's is doing the same. Woo-hoo.

Don't for a second think Cadillac's lineup is "complete." They have a 4-year old crossover (a good one, but old), a mediocre E-Class competitor, and a FWD old-people sedan. The CTS, Escalade line, and to a lesser extent, the SRX are the only vehicles in Cadillac's lineup that are complete. The rest are remnants of Art & Science version 1 (or whatever you want to call it).

The new CTS is just a tip of the iceberg of Cadillac's impending next step up into the luxury world. The BLS, BRX, CTS coupe, CTS wagon, CTS convertible, and new DTS/STS will make a complete Cadillac.
 
#9 ·
Cadillac's sales went up too when they "first got started" back 6 years ago. Lincoln's is doing the same. Woo-hoo.

Don't for a second think Cadillac's lineup is "complete." They have a 4-year old crossover (a good one, but old), a mediocre E-Class competitor, and a FWD old-people sedan. The CTS, Escalade line, and to a lesser extent, the SRX are the only vehicles in Cadillac's lineup that are complete. The rest are remnants of Art & Science version 1 (or whatever you want to call it).

The new CTS is just a tip of the iceberg of Cadillac's impending next step up into the luxury world. The BLS, BRX, CTS coupe, CTS wagon, CTS convertible, and new DTS/STS will make a complete Cadillac.
That does sound complete. It also sounds a bit redundant and overlapping as well, but choice is good for the consumer.

Lincoln has it's share of new stuff coming as well, in addition to updates on everything else. It too will offer world class luxury vehicles like Cadillac, and I suspect we will be comparing notes on luxury brand superiority for many years to come. Thats a good thing.
 
#10 ·
The only thing you can say about Cadillac is that the CTS and the Escalade are selling well. Everything else in their lineup is a bust, including the STS (their would be sedan flagship), the XLR (their would be MB sports car competitor, and SRX (their really important would be crossover success). Same goes for their two trucks and the DTS. Overall it's not a very impressive record considering that they've poured $6 billion into new product development. It's a good thing they've done a good job with the CTS. Considering what's happening with gas prices, it's only a matter of time before Escalade sales collapse. And they already need more work on the CTS, which everyone agrees is overweight, despite it other virtues. In a 4 way test in Car and DRiver this month against BMW 328i (not the 335i with twin turbo!), MB C320, and Infinity G35, it only ranked 3rd. Even more disappointing, it had the worst fuel economy (13 mpg) even with a 6 speed stick.

As for Lincoln not catching BMW and Lexus anytime soon - all that proves is that the writer is an ignoramus. I doubt that anyone in FMC or Lincoln sees that as their goal, "any time soon." BMW position in the market is the result of 3 decades of highly focused targeting of the US market. Lexus was created for the US market and has pursued it intensely since their first car reached these shores. I would argue that that Lexus was "dumping" their cars here for the first five or more years, selling them below cost to build market share and a reputation. These are strategies a company like Lincoln can't employ. Ford has gone through some pretty horrible times which took the wind out of all product development for more than a decade. They're doing what they can with the cards they've been dealt, and they seem to be finally climbing out of the hole. In its history, Ford Motor Company has accomplished things that neither BMW nor Lexus can ever hope to achieve. Ford put Americans of every social class on wheels and taught the world how to build cars efficiently.
 
#11 ·
The only thing you can say about Cadillac is that the CTS and the Escalade are selling well. Everything else in their lineup is a bust, including the STS (their would be sedan flagship), the XLR (their would be MB sports car competitor, and SRX (their really important would be crossover success). Same goes for their two trucks and the DTS. Overall it's not a very impressive record considering that they've poured $6 billion into new product development. It's a good thing they've done a good job with the CTS. Considering what's happening with gas prices, it's only a matter of time before Escalade sales collapse. And they already need more work on the CTS, which everyone agrees is overweight, despite it other virtues. In a 4 way test in Car and DRiver this month against BMW 328i (not the 335i with twin turbo!), MB C320, and Infinity G35, it only ranked 3rd. Even more disappointing, it had the worst fuel economy (13 mpg) even with a 6 speed stick.

As for Lincoln not catching BMW and Lexus anytime soon - all that proves is that the writer is an ignoramus. I doubt that anyone in FMC or Lincoln sees that as their goal, "any time soon." BMW position in the market is the result of 3 decades of highly focused targeting of the US market. Lexus was created for the US market and has pursued it intensely since their first car reached these shores. I would argue that that Lexus was "dumping" their cars here for the first five or more years, selling them below cost to build market share and a reputation. These are strategies a company like Lincoln can't employ. Ford has gone through some pretty horrible times which took the wind out of all product development for more than a decade. They're doing what they can with the cards they've been dealt, and they seem to be finally climbing out of the hole. In its history, Ford Motor Company has accomplished things that neither BMW nor Lexus can ever hope to achieve. Ford put Americans of every social class on wheels and taught the world how to build cars efficiently.
Its 4 Billion since 2001, and Cadillac is also catching on in China, a critical market. the numbers you see here are North America only.
Anyways, I would say the Escalade is a success, and the XLR is also a success, their aim was pretty modest, only 5000 units for the life of the vehicle. anything above that is a bonus.
 
#12 ·
Its 4 Billion since 2001, and Cadillac is also catching on in China, a critical market. the numbers you see here are North America only.
Anyways, I would say the Escalade is a success, and the XLR is also a success, their aim was pretty modest, only 5000 units for the life of the vehicle. anything above that is a bonus.
How is Cadillac catching on in China? Don't dismiss the US market as North America only. The US market is the biggest market not only for NA car makers but for many Euro and Japanese companies too.
 
#14 ·
As for Lincoln not catching BMW ( ) anytime soon - all that proves is that the writer is an ignoramus. I doubt that anyone in FMC or Lincoln sees that as their goal, "any time soon." BMW position in the market is the result of 3 decades of highly focused targeting of the US market...

YUP
I can't see how Lincoln would ever want to depend on a model smaller than they've ever sold for practically HALF of their Total Sales (U.S.)...
3series = 129,549 out of 263,596 (ytd link). Imho Bmw is not much more than a One Trick Pony - 'course they are rather good at that trick...
but it strikes me as if Ford depended on Mustangs selling 70-100k+ per Month (imho kinda interesting to compare the 3er's with Mustang's numbers).

As for Lincoln not catching ( ) Lexus anytime soon - all that proves is that the writer is an ignoramus. I doubt that anyone in FMC or Lincoln sees that as their goal, "any time soon."... ...Lexus was created for the US market and has pursued it intensely since their first car reached these shores. I would argue that that Lexus was "dumping" their cars here for the first five or more years, selling them below cost to build market share and a reputation...

YUP
& as they re-priced their cars they lost their Value Quotient imho. It'll be interesting to see how long sheeple continue to pay for PAST-reputation.
 
#16 ·
Yes, but over 50% of what?
Not sure. I cannot remember where I saw that. But given the growth Chinese market is expiriencing, I think Cadillac will get a foothold, in a few year. Lincoln too I think it was mentioned here is consindering going to China.
 
#17 ·
Not sure. I cannot remember where I saw that. But given the growth Chinese market is expiriencing, I think Cadillac will get a foothold, in a few year. Lincoln too I think it was mentioned here is consindering going to China.
Cadillac, like all of GM, is doing well in China considering they are basically just starting-up. They are doing everything right in China that they screwed up on in the US. For starters, their stand-alone dealerships are amazing.:(

Cadillac has one problem in China; Buick is perceived to be higher luxury than Cadillac. Which is completely weird to us, but hey, they love Buick's. Cadillac is going to have to reverse that, unless the Chinese feel Buick is always superior..I don't know.
 
#20 ·
Cadillac, like all of GM, is doing well in China considering they are basically just starting-up. They are doing everything right in China that they screwed up on in the US. For starters, their stand-alone dealerships are amazing.:(

Cadillac has one problem in China; Buick is perceived to be higher luxury than Cadillac. Which is completely weird to us, but hey, they love Buick's. Cadillac is going to have to reverse that, unless the Chinese feel Buick is always superior..I don't know.
I can understand they the chinese think Buick is better. We sell them crappy North American old CTS while they build their own super buicks
 
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