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Peeking Inside The GM/Ford Transverse Nine Speed Transmission

21K views 58 replies 16 participants last post by  rmc523 
#1 ·
I was browsing the MT website and finally we have more concrete information about the new GM/Ford Transverse Nine Speed Transmission. :cool:

http://www.motortrend.com/news/peeking-inside-the-gmford-transverse-nine-speed-automatic/

"There’s been a flurry of recent information released about the new 10-speed automatic that rivals GM and Ford have co-developed for longitudinal engines as it gets readied for production in the Chevy Camaro ZL1, Ford F-150 EcoBoost 3.5, and Ford Raptor, but Chevy’s unveiling of the Equinox provided our first real look at that joint venture’s transverse nine-speed, which GM will dub the 9T50 (with those last two digits varying to connote different torque ratings in the future).

According to GM transmission expert Scott Kline, the goal was to package nine ratios in roughly the design envelope of the former six-speed automatic while retaining that transmission’s on-axis design (which keeps all the planetary gears aligned with the engine crankshaft). This design “stacks” the planetary sets in line, whereas the ZF nine-speed nests several of them in a package that is shorter in length but much wider. To help reduce the overall length of the GM/Ford gear train while adding another full planetary gearset, the system of clutching for first and reverse gear was completely redesigned. The six-speed transmissions utilized two clutches—a fat conventional multiplate clutch and a slimmer “sprag”-type one-way clutch that freewheels in one direction but locks up against any effort to spin it the other way. What the team came up with was an ingenious “selectable one-way clutch” that looks like two slim sprag clutches stacked together, one of which gets a control mechanism to keep the little sprag’s feet collapsed when freewheeling in one direction if desired. Releasing these sprag feet allows the clutch to lock like a multiplate clutch resisting motion in both directions.

The latest generation of smart torque converter used in this transmission employs both a spring-loaded mass damper to counteract engine vibrations under certain driving conditions when the converter is locked and “micro slip,” tiny bursts of unlocking that permit brief 10–60-rpm speed differentials to eliminate vibrations at engine speeds where the normal mass damper doesn’t work. This greatly broadens the operating conditions under which the transmission can smoothly lock the converter (including much of first gear operation), greatly increasing efficiency.


To support auto start/stop there is a large oil-pressure accumulator that is “powered” by a gigantic coil spring when the engine is off, providing sufficient pressure to the first-gear clutches when restarting. The other various clutches controlling the rest of the gear changes are powered by “linear force solenoids” that power their various valves directly, instead of via a boost valve circuit. And to keep the transmission squeaky clean and free of damaging debris, it includes a second filter on the pressure side of the oil pump; most trannies only filter on the suction side where oil is picked up from the pan. The filters are sized to never need replacing.

The 9T50 is expected to make its first appearance next summer paired with the Chevy Equinox’s 2.0-liter turbo-four and eventually perpetuate throughout the transverse-engine lineup."

Hopefully we'll see this new transverse nine speed transmission on all Ford and Lincoln front/awd vehicles soon! :thumb:
 
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#6 · (Edited)
Hopefully the timelines are wrong as it seems very unfair that the tranny that Ford took lead on is now rolling out but the one that GM lead on won't be arriving until 2 years from now.

There's no way that the Contiental should have been launched with the old 6 speed. From a numbers stand point it's not that important but as a image builder and bearer for the next phase of Lincoln, the Contiental is VERY important and launching it with a transmission that 10+ years old and at least a couple years behind the competition just doesn't make sense.

Think about this for a second: what genuine Luxury automaker offers vehicles with only 6 speeds??, NONE. Once again unfair to Ford that they will have to wait such an extended period of time before an up to date transmission is ready
 
#7 ·

imho the 6-speed could actually be a bit of Tried-to-avoid-it-LUCK for Lincolnl :angel

considering the BoonDoggle-imho grail-search for autonomous vehicles

on top of the new-for-new's-sake Chryco/ZF 8-speed that does NOT use all its gears

AND may Not even be of use *IF* automomy ever happens

&
we get the mfgs WASTING their time-effort-budgets while TRICKING buyers into paying for steak-free gotta-have-it SIZZLE-ONLY

...+ I have a feeling the GM-provided 9-speed has serious problems (maybe deliberate) and THAT is why Fomoco is taking so long = REdeveloping
:facepalm:
 
#8 ·
Dds010 makes a solid point, too. Hopefully, Dds010, 2b2, and Wingsnut, the Lincoln Motor Company preferred to err on the side of the proven reliability of the tried but true 6 speed automatic, rather than placing trust in currently produced 8 and 9 nine speed automatic transmissions with reputations of proven unreliability. On a slightly different note, a recent test drive of the Ford Fusion Sport at C & D, revealed a 5.1 second 0-60mph time with the 2.7 liter, 325hp, 380 lb-ft torque V6. With 0-60 times like those for the Fusion, it may indicate that the Lincoln MKZ and the Lincoln Continental equipped with the 3.0 (Lincoln only, 400hp, 400 lb-ft) V6, torque vectoring and the 6 speed automatic transmission may, place broader smiles on our faces than we think. :angel

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/tested-2017-ford-fusion-sport-review
 
#9 · (Edited)
While the Fusion sport did post a 5.1 time, it's also worth noting that with 400hp/tq that the Contiental/MKZ may not post much quicker times as the may be dialed up a lot to not stress the outdated 6speed, which may be why some posters are reporting the Contiental not feelings as fast as they anticipated. C&D even reports that the Fusion sport itself has some serious tq .management so I can only imagine for the Lincolns. Just another reason why the 9 speed not being ready sucks for Ford.

That's why I didn't want them developing transmissions with GM. YES it saved a major amount of money BUT the downside is that GM could mess it up or be late with development, which looks like exactly what happened.

So ford has tremendously good engines 2.7 & 3.0 bit their true potential cannot be reached because they have to be dialed backed because of the transmissions
 
#11 ·
It's all in the timing. If the Continental was to have the 9-speed at launch, it would have been delayed until MY2019 at the earliest. The 10-speed in the highest volume vehicle has to launch first in the current F-150, then in refreshed Mustang and Next Gen Expedition/Navigator.

Ford has to get those new launched underway before launching another new transmission in next gen models.
 
#12 ·
Three for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne


GM plans 10 models with 9-speed transmission by ’17
TheDetroitNews

Michael Wayland, December 6, 2016


...four for its Chevrolet brand...
...2017 Malibu...$32,000 — $10,000 more than the standard L model with 1.5-liter turbo...
...followed next year by the 2017 Chevrolet Cruze diesel with the 1.6-liter diesel engine...
...2018 Chevrolet Equinox with available 2.0-liter turbo...

...GM declined to disclose what models outside of Chevrolet will feature the new transmission. But GM confirmed it is compatible on other vehicles with the same platforms of the three announced vehicles. Meagher said a fourth Chevrolet vehicle with the transmission will “be announced very soon.”...

.
 
#13 ·

...GM transmission
quote:

GM's new 9-speed has all sorts of patents on it because they managed to get 9 forward gears while using about half the parts one would expect in a transmission with that many speeds. I don't understand the full technical ramifications of what GM did, but apparently it is fairly groundbreaking transmission design. It's seriously tiny as far as transmissions go. Physically, there's no reason they couldn't fit it in cars as small as the Spark or Adam...
 
#15 ·
:thumb: @hbmf3 ^
I still need to learn WTHeck a "selectable 1-way clutch" is
+ "The new 9-speed yielded GM 60 new patents and required 800 prototypes"... I fear they needed MORE
&
crossreferences:
&
Last year's GM/collaboration 9-speed transmission... thread in the CompetitionNews section

.
 
#16 ·
copy/2017 Chevrolet Malibu Premier: A flawless transmission helps this family

Enclosed is an AW article on the 2017 Chevrolet Malibu Premier. The brief article is significant because of it's take on the nine-speed automatic transmission, GM developed with Ford. If the nine-speed automatic is this good in the Chevy, it bodes well for future applications in Ford products. :thumb:

http://autoweek.com/article/car-rev...take-flawless-nine-speed-and-peppy-turbo-four
 
#17 ·
Re: 2017 Chevrolet Malibu Premier quick take: A flawless transmission helps this fami

GM makes superb transmissions so I'm very glad Ford is taking advantage of their expertise, it has been sorely needed. I have never seen a glowing review of a Ford transmission like this in my life and it has always been the achilles heal in every Ford or Lincoln I've owned, although they have worked miracles on most of the 6-speeds combined with EcoBoost.
 
#18 ·
Re: 2017 Chevrolet Malibu Premier quick take: A flawless transmission helps this fami

Where is the review? There is barely a couple brief paragraphs. Do you have to find a sub link or something?

And let's not blow too much smoke up GM's ass, while simultaneously condemning every single Ford transmission in history. They both have made less than stellar pieces that were thin skinned in the past as well as workhorse units. Overall, I would conclude that GM has done better, but let's not get carried away. The Ford engineered 10 speed appears to be a great unit too. It has done well with GM's calibration in the Camaro Z28, which is far easier than a truck with 7 shift modes. I understand the truck to be a nightmare in calibration. But when it appears with Mustang, it should also receive praise. One hopes anyway.
 
#20 ·
Re: 2017 Chevrolet Malibu Premier quick take: A flawless transmission helps this fami

Where is the review? There is barely a couple brief paragraphs. Do you have to find a sub link or something?

And let's not blow too much smoke up GM's ass, while simultaneously condemning every single Ford transmission in history. They both have made less than stellar pieces that were thin skinned in the past as well as workhorse units. Overall, I would conclude that GM has done better, but let's not get carried away. The Ford engineered 10 speed appears to be a great unit too. It has done well with GM's calibration in the Camaro Z28, which is far easier than a truck with 7 shift modes. I understand the truck to be a nightmare in calibration. But when it appears with Mustang, it should also receive praise. One hopes anyway.
Here is a little more of a review...

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/12/we-try-out-gms-new-9-speed-auto-in-the-2017-chevrolet-malibu/
 
#21 ·
Re: 2017 Chevrolet Malibu Premier quick take: A flawless transmission helps this fami

It's great the co-development and recent introductions of the 10 speed automatic (led by Ford) and 9 speed automatic (led by GM), will insure American automobiles are equipped with first class transmissions. We've already received multiple positive reviews of the 10 speed in the F150s and the Camaro. There have been few reviews so far, about the nine speed automatic, however what we're beginning to hear is promising, and it's good to see American car manufacturers demonstrating the ability to produce world class products again! :) I can't wait for the unveiling of more Ford and Lincoln models (i.e. 2018 Mustang :cool:) equipped with the new transmissions!
 
#23 ·
Re: 2017 Chevrolet Malibu Premier quick take: A flawless transmission helps this fami

Ford has been very quiet about their use of the 9 speed. I spoke with a Lincoln rep a few months ago and he told me the first ones to get the 9 speed would be 4 cylinder Fusions, MKZs and Edges. I thought maybe the 2018s would get it but it doesn't appear that they will.
 
#24 ·
Re: 2017 Chevrolet Malibu Premier quick take: A flawless transmission helps this fami

I wonder...
New 9-Speed Pushes Tech Limit, GM Says
WardsAuto
| James M. Amend | Dec 7, 2016


...As for now, a fourth model also will receive the 9-speed soon, perhaps on a redesigned GMC Terrain midsize CUV. GM expects 10 vehicle models to use it by the end of 2017. It is built at GM’s San Luis Potosi, Mexico, manufacturing operation after a recent $131 million investment to accommodate its production...​
if Ford's main plan was for vehicles built in their cancelled San Luis Potosi factory?
 
#28 · (Edited)
Re: Peeking Inside the FORD Transverse 9(EIGHT?)Speed Transmission

crossreference: the AutomotiveNews article in the "Ford Invests $350 Million" thread

based-on/afaik
1.
-- the ZF 9-speed must have lousy control-software (gear hunting & lurching)
-- Ford has been GREAT at control-software (first/smoothest electro-gas switching)
-- maybe the 9speeds NEED a bit more control-sensors ($) for smoothness?
2.
so since Ford will make both 8 & 9 speed versions work well (eventually/before intro)
-- long time ago I read in multi-articles that any # over 8 is just prestige/one-upmanship
-- if there's a slight benefit to 9 & it's used for heavier variants (Awd/Lincolns),
-- their mpg can equal the lighter,cheaper ones with 8...
-- while helping to keep the base (Fwd) models' prices down *&* with a factual reason


meanwhile...
FullSpeed Ahead with the FORD-developed 10 speed @ GM
GMauthority
— Sean Szymkowski — May 24, 2017

CARB Certification Shows All GM SUVs On Deck To Receive 10-Speed Automatic Transmission...
.
 
#29 · (Edited)
merged 2 tranny threads in order to post some conflicting+conflicted August article Links/blurbs...


AutoWeek: "...weirder shifting"
Cons: Nine-speed automatic needs some software work...
**


Car&Driver: "smooth transmission"
...nine-speed...gives its powertrain a level of refinement befitting Cadillac, never mind GMC. Shifts are almost imperceptible, although aggressive driving can sometimes cause a bit of jerkiness on multigear downshifts. The new transmission helps the V-6 Traverse pick up 3 mpg in its EPA combined ratings...


ConsumerReports: "unobtrusive, nine-speed automatic transmission"
...happy to see that the transmission is engaged with a traditional gear selector—no confusing alternative shifter here... ...with a six-cylinder engine, all-wheel drive...



**plus some UNverified HEAR-SAY from an AW comment:
Autoblog ("The nine-speed transmission was pleasantly surprising. Unlike the nine-speed in the Honda Pilot or various Jeeps, this one never felt like it was hunting for the perfect gear.")
MotorTrend ("There’s never the sense of constant gear shuffling that we’ve noticed in many other nine-speeds, and I never detected a moment’s indecision . . . " ).
.
 
#30 ·
Ford to build an 8-speed transmission in Michigan

DETROIT — The gearbox Ford Motor Co. is spending $350 million to add to its Livonia transmission plant in suburban Detroit will be a front-wheel-drive eight-speed, according to an internal company memo obtained by Automotive News.

The memo, dated last June, said the eight-speed will begin production in October.

The transmission is based on the nine-speed developed with General Motors, according to a source with knowledge of the company’s plans. Ford removed a gear to save on costs and improve performance, said the source, who requested anonymity discussing internal plans.
--------------------------------------

If Ford dropped a gear to save money and improve performance, it's doubtful that there will be a Ford or Lincoln 9-speed. BMW also does an 8-speed.
 
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