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Thread: Lincoln To Focus On Targeting Highest-Volume Luxury Segments

  1. #41
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    Re: Lincoln To Focus On Targeting Highest-Volume Luxury Segments

    Quote Originally Posted by SP1966 View Post
    My opinion is the current gen Mustang is very good, the next should be able to support a true 3 series competitor and Ford would be plain stupid not to exploit that with Lincoln.
    TY, SP1966!
    do you also think the article pretty much HAS TO be interpreted as confirming the Lincoln 3er?
    since (afaik) no other Lux segment is higher volume?

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    Re: Lincoln To Focus On Targeting Highest-Volume Luxury Segments

    Quote Originally Posted by 2b2 View Post
    TY, SP1966!
    do you also think the article pretty much HAS TO be interpreted as confirming the Lincoln 3er?
    since (afaik) no other Lux segment is higher volume?
    I think the RX and 3 are the two best-selling luxury vehicles. So, yes, it seems sort of confirmed. Whether or not it'll be a 3 competitor is up for debate, I'd think. I'd guess just a luxury compact. Think A4. If it's a 3 competitor, it'd produce somewhat of a dichotomy between IT and what Lincoln claims to target. Lexus and Audi don't typically have an association with great performance. Not in my mind, at least.

    With a direct 3 competitor (based on performance, which is the only way I think it would make sense to utilize a Mustang platform), it would focus one of Lincoln's highest volume models on performance while the rest of its lineup would be... what?

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    Re: Lincoln To Focus On Targeting Highest-Volume Luxury Segments

    Quote Originally Posted by 2b2 View Post
    TY, SP1966!
    do you also think the article pretty much HAS TO be interpreted as confirming the Lincoln 3er?
    since (afaik) no other Lux segment is higher volume?
    I don't know if the article confirm anything, but given Lincoln's current state it would be a mistake not to rebuild it from the bottom up. Older generations are pretty set in their ways, they are unlikely to jump from their current preferred brand to Lincoln unless its a grand slam. Given the state of competition within the top of the line luxury brands even a grand slam will be no guarantee of success.

    On the other hand if they rebuild/rebrand Lincoln from the bottom with a car that stands shoulder to shoulder with the 3 Series they can bring in a younger generation that can grow with Lincoln as it fills out its upper range of cars with competitive models. They are not going to build brand loyalty from the top down IMO, it has to be grown up the range.

    As to your question, we can only hope. Mullaly has done a spectacular job with Ford, hopefully his vision is 20/20 with Lincoln too!

    Edit: Also, with Mullaly's desire to extend platforms to more markets/segments it only makes sense that the 'Stang cannot stand on its own. The fact that it is being engineered for right hand drive for foreign market screams volume. A Linc'Stang as you put it is just far to obvious to be anything but real!

    Quote Originally Posted by sfbreh View Post
    I think the RX and 3 are the two best-selling luxury vehicles. So, yes, it seems sort of confirmed. Whether or not it'll be a 3 competitor is up for debate, I'd think. I'd guess just a luxury compact. Think A4. If it's a 3 competitor, it'd produce somewhat of a dichotomy between IT and what Lincoln claims to target. Lexus and Audi don't typically have an association with great performance. Not in my mind, at least.
    The problem with claiming to go the Audi route is that Audi is rear biased AWD, and Ford's current platforms are all front biased so it will never stand up to scrutiny amongst those in the know. I agree with you though that Lincoln is going to attempt to pursue a more Audi like brand, not an outright Luxury/Performance brand like BMW.

    Quote Originally Posted by sfbreh View Post
    With a direct 3 competitor (based on performance, which is the only way I think it would make sense to utilize a Mustang platform), it would focus one of Lincoln's highest volume models on performance while the rest of its lineup would be... what?
    I don't see the issue with a direct 3 Series competitor in that the 3 is not only a performance car, its an all around luxury car with a sporting/performance base. The vast majority of 3 Series cars sold are not of the M variety, but the more garden variety. Given that, I see no reason why the MKZ/MKS cannot be stop gap cars that maintain the current geriatric generation of customers, while filling in the bottom of the range with 3 Series, or even A/S4 like car to build the brand moving forward. IMO, to do anything else is to relegate Lincoln's future aspirations to being Ford's Buick.

    What pixxes me off is to see Hyundai building Genesis, if they can do it then for Ford not to is just BS excuses. I understand Genesis is more second tier Lexus at this point, but its superior to MKS while similar in size and market. In Hyundai's case it makes sense as Genesis is the top tier of the Hyundai brand, so in reality Hyundai has built their brand from the bottom up too, and they did it from far closer to ground level then Ford is starting at with Lincoln.

    I don't pretend to know the dollars and cents of doing what I'm talking about here, but I know if Lincoln is ever to be seen as a legit luxury brand its the only way to get there!
    Last edited by SP1966; 08-18-2012 at 01:47 PM.

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    Re: Lincoln To Focus On Targeting Highest-Volume Luxury Segments

    Quote Originally Posted by sfbreh View Post
    -...So, yes, it seems sort of confirmed...

    - I think the RX and 3 are the two best-selling luxury vehicles...

    - Whether or not it'll be a 3 competitor is up for debate, I'd think. I'd guess just a luxury compact... ...Lexus and Audi don't typically have an association with great performance. Not in my mind, at least...

    - If it's a 3 competitor, it'd produce somewhat of a dichotomy between IT and what Lincoln claims to target.

    - With a direct 3 competitor (based on performance, which is the only way I think it would make sense to utilize a Mustang platform), it would focus one of Lincoln's highest volume models on performance...

    - while the rest of its lineup would be... what?
    - TY, sfbreh!

    - imho the MKX is the RX competitor
    & tho it can improve (hope the nextgen isn't too diff)
    imho that segment is filled... & NEXT
    (but skipping over the MKuGa which is next in the timeline)

    - I'm thinking of a LincStang (Mustang-co-platformed) and THAT really can't = a "compact" per se

    - I agree on the dichotomy and support that: the RWD LincStang and (hopefully) Continental would be an upper/top range

    - the LincStang will definitely be performance -- but refined & Lux
    BUT it won't-or-doesn't have to be all that High Volume
    esp at first

    - as I said earlier, the other Lincoln models (will) target other major Lux segments
    imho
    so far
    they've been more determined FROM what Ford had available for modifying
    in the future,
    they'll be planned from the other end: what they want achieve.
    That may seem a small change but imho it's crucial
    & I hope
    will be the starting point for Fomoco! product development;
    instead of changing the Ford vehicle,
    they START with the Lincoln then cheapen it for Ford production.


    all^ just imho

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    Re: Lincoln To Focus On Targeting Highest-Volume Luxury Segments

    Quote Originally Posted by SP1966 View Post
    I don't know if the article confirm anything...

    - but given Lincoln's current state it would be a mistake not to rebuild it from the bottom up...

    - They are not going to build brand loyalty from the top down IMO, it has to be grown up the range... (yet) ...What pixxes me off is to see Hyundai building Genesis, if they can do it then for Ford not to is just BS excuses.

    - The vast majority of 3 Series cars sold are not of the M variety, but the more garden variety...

    - As to your question, we can only hope. Mullaly has done a spectacular job with Ford, hopefully his vision is 20/20 with Lincoln too!
    - yeah; the article is not an official announcement but more "implication".
    (kinda think/hope FLincMoCo was first saying, "Pray no one figures this out!"
    & now saying, "D@mn you, 2b2!"

    - as in the ^dichotomy^, I see the RWD Lincolns as higher not "from the bottom".
    Size-wise re: bottom; there's the MkuGa & I still hope for a Focus/C-Max-based MKE
    &
    imho a RWD Continental is required (at the moment, thinking the "CD4+3 Poll" idea could work)

    - imho Cadillac has *started out* 'too low' with the ATS engine-wise
    then
    will jump up too much with the inevitable ATS-V

    - afaik Mr. M. hasn't had that much to do with PRODUCT Vision - bringing back the Taurus name was 'just' marketing,
    really a Methods guy (THANK GOD);
    & I hope he stays out of product -- at least until he's learned enough about cars to never consider another Lexus!!!

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    copied from: Future Products on AutomotiveNews - check back Aug20 for Ford

    MONTEREY, Calif. -- The next step in the reinvention of Lincoln is no baby step, it's a compact crossover.

    Lincoln is focusing its efforts on luxury's twin towers -- the huge and ever-expanding C segment sedan and crossover categories, usually classified by BMW's 3 series on one side and the Lexus RX on the other. And Lincoln is avoiding the really pricey niches that account for about 10 percent of luxury sales.

    Here at Pebble Beach, Cadillac kept up the drum beat for the top-tier BMW-Mercedes sedan strata. It showed renderings of a concept car that will appear at a 2013 auto show, hinting at a flagship rear-driver to challenge the 7-series and S-class.

    That's a class Lincoln is going to skip for the time being as it works on the fundamentals of the brand.

    Indeed, depending on your definition of flagship, it sounds as though Lincoln executives are prepared to forego having a flagship indefinitely.

    But do the brand's self-imposed limitations really suggest its stewards have no interest in a halo car.

    "I don't think it says that," says Lincoln product development chief Scott Tobin.

    "The segments are fundamentally the small, and medium premium utilities, the D-segment, and the C or C-D (sedans)," he said.

    And that D-segment (Taurus-sized) car can be a full-fledged halo car, he says.

    "That is kind of where I would put a car like that. The next reincarnation of that would be the next generation MKS," Tobin said. "I can see us with a D-segment flagship vehicle. I think we would have to do that. We're not ruling it out by any means. We're working on that."

    But go much beyond a luxury sedan that is a cousin of the Taurus and you are into areas Lincoln can't really fool with at the moment.

    "The other 10 percent is some of the really kind of niche stuff," Tobin said. "We look at that, don't get me wrong. We are always playing around with ideas. But we know we have to be competitive in those core areas, get your piece of the pie, then we'll play around with some of the other things."

    And what about the compact crossover?

    "That small premium utility segment is growing" said Tobin. "It's a the fastest growing segment."

    So don't be surprised if two years from now at Pebble, we'll see just such a Lincoln -- using the same architecture as the Ford Escape, but with completely different sheet metal.

    Still, the subject of immediate attention is the MKZ coming this fall -- the 3-series/C-class fighter that Galpin Ford megadealer Beau Boeckmann is salivating to get his hands on.

    "We can't can wait to get that car out here," said Boeckmann as he looked out at an MKZ sitting a few steps from the 18th Green at Pebble Beach. "That's what we need in Los Angeles.

    "I'm extremely excited about the future of Lincoln," said the Galpinizer, ultimate cool California dealer. "This an extremely capable Lincoln management team and they are playing to win rather than playing not to lose."



    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/2012...#ixzz23wgjBRW9
    Last edited by 2b2; 08-18-2012 at 07:47 PM.

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    Re: Lincoln Targets Highest-Volume Luxury Segments

    Quote Originally Posted by SP1966 View Post
    ...But do the brand's self-imposed limitations really suggest its stewards have no interest in a halo car.

    "I don't think it says that," says Lincoln product development chief Scott Tobin.

    "The segments are fundamentally the small, and medium premium utilities, the D-segment, and the C or C-D (sedans)," he said.

    And that D-segment (Taurus-sized) car can be a full-fledged halo car, he says.

    "That is kind of where I would put a car like that. The next reincarnation of that would be the next generation MKS," Tobin said. "I can see us with a D-segment flagship vehicle. I think we would have to do that. We're not ruling it out by any means. We're working on that."

    ((Still, the subject of immediate attention is the MKZ coming this fall -- the 3-series/C-class fighter that Galpin Ford megadealer Beau Boeckmann is salivating to get his hands on.))
    SO^
    now we have the Continental confirmed TOO!

    (wonder if the mention of the Taurus could mean the CD4+3 Poll is right?!?)
    ((just be careful anywhere near the drugged-out Galpinizer who thinks the Z is a 3))



    &
    "...don't be surprised if two years from now at Pebble, we'll see just such a Lincoln -- using the same architecture as the Ford Escape, but with completely different sheet metal..."
    the MKuGa Job1 is set for Q4 2013 so he's talking "been in production for almost a year"...
    ...not a concept



    edit
    OK, with the above reading-btwn-the-lines, here are the
    7 new Lincolns in 4 years
    2012 MKZ (1st half)

    2013 MKuGa
    2013 MKZ (2nd half = Nano 2.7v6&EB)

    2014 LincStang
    2014 MKX
    2014 Navi

    2015 Continental
    2015 Aviator

    the split for 2014 & 2015 are guesses based on Ford Brand releases
    Last edited by 2b2; 08-18-2012 at 10:22 PM.

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    Re: Lincoln To Focus On Targeting Highest-Volume Luxury Segments

    I'd still take a strong guess that both the "MKD" and redesigned MKX will both debut as 2014 models in late 2013. Much like the Fusion/MKZ debuted in the same model year I would think the Edge/MKX would do the same.

    What I'd like to see in 2014:

    MKZ- 2.3L Ecoboost I-4 280hp (detuned for FWD applications) AWD is optional
    Optional 2.7L Ecoboost V6 330 hp (detuned for FWD applications) AWD-only
    Hybrid model

    MKD- 2.3L Ecoboost I-4 280hp (detuned for FWD applications) AWD is optional
    Hybrid model

    MKX- 2.7L Ecoboost V6 330 hp (detuned for FWD applications) AWD-only
    Offers 3-rows of seating (MKT becomes new "Town Car", Edge continues on as a Murano/Venza competitor, MKX becomes an MDX competitor)

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    Re: Lincoln To Focus On Targeting Highest-Volume Luxury Segments

    Quote Originally Posted by Rofl Wafflez View Post
    I'd still take a strong guess that both the "MKG" and redesigned MKX will both debut as 2014 models in late 2013. Much like the Fusion/MKZ debuted in the same model year I would think the Edge/MKX would do the same.

    What I'd like to see in 2014:

    MKZ- 2.3L Ecoboost I-4 280hp (detuned for FWD applications) AWD is optional
    Optional 2.7L Ecoboost V6 330 hp (detuned for FWD applications) AWD-only
    Hybrid model

    MKG- 2.3L Ecoboost I-4 280hp (detuned for FWD applications) AWD is optional
    Hybrid model

    MKX- 2.7L Ecoboost V6 330 hp (detuned for FWD applications) AWD-only
    Offers 3-rows of seating (MKT becomes new "Town Car", Edge continues on as a Murano/Venza competitor, MKX becomes an MDX competitor)
    FYI, ROFL-W
    I've been politely brow-beating everyone within reach to call the MkuGa the MKG

    & saw an online document that claimed its Job1 would be Q4 2013
    BUT
    the MKX remained unlisted THO the Edge was dated Q3 2014
    which is why my timeline
    HOWEVER
    the next MKZ *IS* listed as a year before the next Fusion
    Q3 2017 vs Q3 2018
    so who knows...

    re: your 2014 list's drivetrains
    I've read that EB will make 140hp-per-liter
    so
    I anticipate the 2.3EB4 and 2.7EB6 to be pretty close in power
    ~322hp vs ~350hp
    (not sure either will ever be Fwd - esp/at least the 2.7EB6)
    however/also
    I expect a new version of a 2.0EB making 280hp (finally!) which imho could easily be used as Fwd

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    Re: Lincoln To Focus On Targeting Highest-Volume Luxury Segments

    Quote Originally Posted by nruggiero View Post
    Yes, before Mercury's departure, they were supposed to get an entry-level compact called the Tracer and now that Mercury is gone Lincoln is supposed to get one.

    Notice in the Auto News article Lincoln is supposed to bring out an "entry-level" crossover. I have a feeling that's what Ford wants Lincoln to be is an entry-level brand to compete with Buick and Acura.
    BMW (X1), Audi (Q3), and Mercedes (GLK) are all entering the same "entry-level" crossover segment - to me it only makes sense for Lincoln to enter the segment, especially now while the segment is young and growing - it will establish the brand in that segment, and could lead to customers moving up into larger/more expensive Lincoln products down the road.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurboS40 View Post
    This doesn't have to be as difficult as Ford is making it here. The MKR should have been built for the 2009 model year. The vehicle would have contributed to sales instead of a sales slide as the current model line up (or lack of) allows. The Gen2 MKR could have improved on the current Platform with the redesign for 2014/15. All we know is we will get another CUV (MKC) sometime in 2013. So??? Some of us don't care about SUV/CUV's. So it looks like the MKZ and "MKCuv" are It for a while until the Euro Market gets fixed. You know, The Panther Town Car should have continued in production until a REAL proper replacement is ready. And while on the subject, the Mountaineer should have been salvaged and returned back to Lincoln as the Aviator when Mercury ended. Again, The next gen version of the Aviator so we are told will be again on the showroom floor some day. do.
    Had a viable platform been available, we would have had an MKR already - I remember that was one of the questions Mulally asked when he was brought in, when does MKR production start and was told that it wouldn't, it was just a concept. The concept was put on some sort of stretched Mustang platform, but it was apparently was not feasible to put it into production. I won't pretend to know much about what would go into stretching a platform and making it production-ready, but it's what I know from what happened with the MKR concept that makes me question (or at least uncertain) the rumors of an MKR replacement w/ suicide doors being tied to the Mustang platform. Maybe changes were able to be made for the new model that allowed the platform to be stretched making the rumors true......I don't know?

    From what I know, an "Aviator"/MKExplorer is coming. I was told by a Ford rep who was going around showing dealers the new Explorer before it was on sale at a local debut event that certain features would be left for the Lincoln model, though I will admit, I expected it to be here by now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rofl Wafflez View Post
    The MKX is another core product that needs a redesign. I would love for the MKX to go 3-row with the next redesign. There's really no need for Lincoln to have 2 2-row CUVs even if one is a little bigger. Lincoln needs a good 3-row family hauler and the MKT just failed to get the job done. I feel the MKX name has a lot of name recognition because it's been on the market since 2007. I believe Lexus is mulling turning the RX into a 3-row crossover with it's next redesign.
    I don't think the MKX needs to or should go 3 rows, I think it should stay right where it's at (2 rows), and leave the 3-row market to the coming "Aviator"/MKExplorer and MKT. There's room below the MKX for the MKD/G.....Using the "Big 3" as examples, they each have 2 2-row CUVs under their 3-row offerings (BMW - X1, X3; MB - GLK, ML; Audi - Q3, Q5)

    Quote Originally Posted by SP1966 View Post
    I like parts of the Z, love others, but overall as a whole it misses the mark for me. The car to me looks heavy, looks fat, does not look like a car that will be light on its feet as the above mentioned Caddy's do. While sharing the same platform the Fusion, which to me looks lean, looks like it would be fun to drive, and that important, to me anyways.
    I will agree, certain angles do make the MKZ look bulky.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZanatWork View Post
    I really can't stand this. I loved Mercury my whole life, but that brand was killed so that Lincoln could become...a clumsier version? Mercury at least had a racing history (which idiots in Dearborn deserted) and had been the "coolest" Ford division during their heyday.

    Lincoln has usually been...a way to spend a lot of money for Ford parts.

    With so little separating the MKS and Taurus, maybe it's time to quit pretending Lincoln is anything other than Mercury, and change the name to what it should be.
    You're basing your statements on the Lincoln lineup today, not looking ahead to what's coming.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2b2 View Post
    SO^
    now we have the Continental confirmed TOO!
    I think it's only logical to assume that once the brand has its core products in line and is healthier/more successful that they'd expand into the lower volume, higher priced segments (flagship, coupes, convertibles, etc)
    Last edited by rmc523; 08-20-2012 at 11:13 PM.
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