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Mission: LINCOLN!

338K views 929 replies 49 participants last post by  San Costa 
#1 ·
Ideal Lincoln Lineups: Vehicles - Marketing - Design - DNA
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imho part of Lincoln's problem has been having a lineup that's difficult to understand (for some).
C.J. O'Donnell, Lincoln's Director of Marketing has been using the phrase "MK Series" in a couple videos,
so here are existing and proposed models arranged into 3 'series' ... starting with the top range, once RWD finally happens

Star-series
Std Bridge of Weir leather and most other features - very few options; PLUS maybe 50% aluminum/alloy/c.f. construction
• Zodiac - Mustang-based coupecabrio & sportsedan

• Constellation - GRwdP - Continental-based swoopy '4-door-coupe'
<temp
• Continental - GRwdP - flagship sedan
<phase One (more in post#37)
Together the Continental and Constellation probably replace the mkR
• Navigator - based on nextgen lighter F-150
( approx. horsepower, all the above offer:
2.7EB 350hp -- 3.7v6 300hp -- 3.5EB 400hp -- 5.0v8 400hp -- 5.0Hybrid 400hp -- 5.0EB 600hp )

MK-series
all v6 F-Awd with std Leather and including parts not common-with-Ford being aluminum/alloy/c.f.
• mkT - restyled with more formality to resemble the Rolls Royce Phantom

• mkS - on the mkT's longer wheelbase, styled closer to the more sculpted mkT-Concept

• mkR - on the current mkS's or nextgen Taurus's wlb, new '4-door-coupe' styling

( engines for the 3 above models:
3.7v6 300hp -- 3.7Hybrid 310hp -- 2.7EB 350hp -- 3.5EB 400hp )
update: ( 5.0 v8, Awd only ...no seriously! ...Aviator too )
• mkX - more differentiation from the Edge on the new platform
( above (non-v8) engines plus a 2.7Hybrid 250hp - Yes, 2 Hybrids )
Here's where the new twist comes in. The smaller F-Awd vehicles will be in both the MK-series & the new i-series for 4 cylinder drivetrains
• mkZ - new platform & styling - exclusively uses the new (rumored) 2.7v6:

( 2.7v6 230hp -- 2.7Hybrid 250hp -- 2.7EB 350hp )
• mkG - Kuga-based, same drivetrains as the mkZ

• mkE - sedan based on longer Grand C-Max wlb ...NO Focus competition!

....and hatch/coupe based on Focus wlb ...ditto!

( same drivetrains as the mkZ & mkG including the EB)
note: in keeping with my "no performance marketing" for Lincoln idea, the RS label is not used in the U.S.
the "RS" for the Rest of the World, may be a 2.7EB MKE with a less luxurious Std trim (see i-series' features)


i-series - similar to the European Individual models

4 cylinder Only drivetrains and perhaps SLIGHTLY fewer std features; fewer exterior colors & One Interior: half Leather half microfiber-suede; & a 'simplified', mainly black grille ... possibly withOUT the name LINCOLN appearing on the cars ... these are geared to bring new/younger customers into the Lincoln showrooms

• 'Z' - may use some Mondeo trims/parts
• 'G' - may use some Kuga trims/parts
( both offer 1.6EB 180hp -- 2.0Hybrid 185hp - & maybe a 2.0EB 240hp )
• 'E' - sedan based on longer Grand C-Max wlb ...NO Focus competition!
could be marketed in Europe with a Ford grille & diesel option as the CORTINA
• 'E' - coupe or 3-door based on Focus wlb ...ditto!
could be marketed in Europe with a Ford grille, diesel, and sliding glass-roof as the CAPRI to replace the Focus-Cabrio
( both use 1.6EB 180hp -- 1.6Hybrid 160hp, at least to start)
or instead
( all offer Only a 1.6EB-PIH 210hp )
 
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#253 ·
2b2 said:
if it's the same thing, use the same name
I'm just not getting any originality vibes from this. Remember, a lot of Lincoln buyers have Fords in their family as well...
it's the technology itself that lacks originality for Lincoln
not that I think that's bad when it comes to EcoBoost = great tech + good name

what about a performance line? something like AMG with ecoboost engines, 5.5L V8 or something like that
personally I'd like ALL Lincoln engines to be EcoBoost
not even sure if the Hybrids couldn't have them
but
by all means, put your thoughts together and share them here!!




&
re: the "star"
I'd like it a bit less skinny than even the one Andrew posted
maaaaybe based on a 9x16 formfactor?

and (more) 3-Dimensional!
 
#254 ·
I don't know about anyone else here but I don't like the new Lincoln logo:


So how bout for the bespoke program they let you choose which logo you want?

I would much rather have the one from the mid 2000's I think it looks more elegant with the points
I personally would like the crest or the logo from the Continental Mark II to come back. Or maybe the red logo.










The logo needs some color, imo.
 
#257 ·
^ this was a pleasant surprise, sfbreh

I have tons of agreement &but want to ponder a number of original ideas you've presented.

FoMoCo engines are easier to understand than GM 's (imho
)
but I posted an new EB prediction chart here
&
when you have time & interest (if you haven't seen it already), I'd appreciate fresh feedback on the 3 tiers of models in the first post.
:) Happy to please.

[*]I think your Star series is a little out of whack in terms of what constitutes it.

As currently presented by Mercedes, the CLS is clearly positioned a step below the S. The S is the halo of the brand itself, but the CLS I would argue is the best "normal" sedan they offer. It's an S-lite. It has presence, but it's not the same kind of stately presence. The four-door coupe deal is a great idea, but not for a top of the line kind of sedan as you suggest; even if paired with another sedan. I would argue that a four-door coupe is almost entirely unnecessary. You have every automaker from Hyundai to, frankly, even Lincoln with the MKZ incorporating coupe-like styling into its sedans.

I don't know enough about manufacturing to make an intelligent statement about the alloy mix you discussed, but I think all Lincolns should have the best cost effective materials in use to reduce weight. See Cadillac. Lots of aluminum, no carbon fiber unless it's on sporty models.

Also, the Mustang will never be on a suitable platform that can underpin a flagship-level coupe. Keep the Mustang as pure as it can be. Just do sport Lincolns.

The Star series should, with the exclusion of the Navigator, exclude Ford platforms entirely. At that level of competition, a bespoke Lincoln platform is worth the cost. On the contrary to what you wrote, I don't think that level of car should be without options. Lincoln doesn't have an S-class. It can't and won't command buyers at the same level that the S does. It wouldn't get an exclusively $100k out the door in the numbers it would with a flagship with a massive price range with great standard features. Pricing it all the way above $100k with options removes the notion of a value option, even if the lower end versions are.

[*]The MK series is good. I don't like the idea of exclusive powertrain options, though. It's a little backwards to only use V6's.

As for the MKT, Lincoln isn't a very formal brand. It strikes me as a more modern than blue-blooded kind of brand. No Rolls Royce. You can be distinctive without a Spirit of Ecstasy.

The MKS I like if it's a sedan. MKR is a no-no. Unnecessary, in my opinion. It's like building a coupe-like sedan in a sea of coupe-like sedans.

[*] The i series is really cool. I like that idea a lot, but as for how well youth-oriented ventures turn out as planned... Meh. It's better to just build cars that young people want to start out with. There's always that old adage about selling a young man's car to an old man.

The i is a great idea for one or two models, but they can be trims even. An i-trimmed Lincoln Focus would be pretty sweet. Personally, I think the ST is an awesome car... but I'm not a really sport-oriented kind of guy. I appreciate power, but I like luxury. Just imagine an ST (ST performance parts with a detuned engine) Lincoln Focus with great standard features as a very cheap entry into the brand for a taste of what they have to offer. Price it below an ST, if possible. Go into Verano territory and always keep a model like that in your lineup, no matter how high you move in the luxury world. Make it a memorable car in design and performance.




and maybe a pale 'blond' or honey/coppery-gold
Yes to all of these

&
for the metals would like to include:
regular smooth aluminum
sparkly, maybe textured aluminum
a deeper-toned "titanium"
plus
'piano black' of course
(can't make up my mind about carbonfiber)
No carbon fiber. EVER. It's not a BMW. It's not a Cadillac. Put light, unfinished stone in there. No titanium. Smooth aluminum trims. Don't get fancy on the metals. No piano black. Use the third, black wood as a sub for both carbon fiber and lacquer trims.

very late edit (insomnia)
made a comparo of pricing...soooo similar imho

For the record, I didn't look in the thread for prices. I based mine off of current Lincoln pricing.

wanted to mention, I like that your LincStang "reaches high" (like including competitors too - which I never have patience or confidence to do; but) I include the 6-series as a major TARGET (always thought the 6er looks like a Mustang-clone anyway!)
Too small for a 6 competitor. Performance-wise, it should be slightly outmatched in some metrics. The supercar would absolutely destroy everything short of a ZR-1... or a competitive mid-engined Cadillac. :D

& rather surprised both you, & TaurusSHO keep the MKT
I *really* want it GONE and it's resources split into the LTC.TownCar.TouringCar and...the Aviator/Navigator
which I too *had* hoped would be based on a GlobalRWDplatform Territory, companion to the Falcon-initiated GRWDP Continental
(that^s ranted for just a bit earlier in the Mission)
The MKT's usefulness is in how different it is. Lincoln is an alternative. That's exactly what the MKT offers. An alternative crossover, unlike anything else on the market in its price range.

Thanks for joining in, Jose!

I get the feeling you're leaning towards Lincoln being as much EcoBoost as possible, as I am too!

&
Wingsnut hinted that Lincoln will get a good number of exclusive engines or versions-of-engines...
...lots to wonder about!!
I would do an exclusively EB Lincoln lineup for conventionally powered vehicles. Hybrids, I could care less about. Plus I know little about them and their efficiencies via aspirated/non. All non-alternatively powered Lincolns should be EcoBoosts.

It's a brand characteristic. Just like Volvo moving to use only 4-bangers. It's a good image to develop.

I don't know about anyone else here but I don't like the new Lincoln logo:


So how bout for the bespoke program they let you choose which logo you want?

I would much rather have the one from the mid 2000's I think it looks more elegant with the points
I'm very set against Lincoln being too formal. The older logo, while I do like it, is still too formal. The new one is softer. I like it for the vision I have of Lincoln.

The logo needs some color, imo.
You forget the time we live in. Dull is hip. :facepalm:

In all seriousness, I don't think it should have color. It's a beautiful logo as is. I just hope they can develop a hood ornament... I'd even be okay with the split-wing grille being separated by a larger star. Everyone else is putting a GIANT logo on their grilles, why not Lincoln it? It can be tasteless (see: Mercedes), but it can also help to take away from the awkward look that the front can have. I see the split-wing and I think about Tyler, the Creator's teeth.

 
#258 ·
woah^, TY sfbreh!


...I think your Star series is a little out of whack in terms of what constitutes it...
...On the contrary to what you wrote, I don't think that level of car should be without options...
well things & ideas evolve (like the Bespoke Program idea ... btw, I *do* still show a price range of $10k or more per vehicle. So maybe it's more the words I used than the theory?...which might be more about the WAY trim-level-equivalents are presented than What they offer?)
but
part of me still likes a DNA-driven std feature list that just doesn't need much in the way of a Library-of-Congress your-way-BurgerKing-whopper specification-Book ... a central part of my "Mercury2020: THE RETURN" thread currently being polished offline (think I might give in and post Version1.0 soon...)


...Pricing it all the way above $100k with options removes the notion of a value option, even if the lower end versions are...
this ^ I don't understand
(& I most always try to keep Lincoln under 6 digits)


...the Mustang will never be on a suitable platform that can underpin a flagship-level coupe. Keep the Mustang as pure as it can be. Just do sport Lincolns...
...with the exclusion of the Navigator, exclude Ford platforms entirely. At that level of competition, a bespoke Lincoln platform is worth the cost...
We'll see . . .
:wink:
...ie we WILL see! re-:wink:


...[*]The MK series is good. I don't like the idea of exclusive powertrain options, though. It's a little backwards to only use V6's...
not sure I understand the only v6 part - it's not a desire of mine to limit it to v6's
but a desire to excluded 4 cyls(past tense, idea changed again**) and there being no v8's available/possible-sorta
(** currently I'm at war with having 3 cylinder engines in Lincolns but Fours are OK ...sigh)


...CLS...has presence, but it's not the same kind of stately presence. The four-door coupe deal is a great idea, but not for a top of the line kind of sedan as you suggest; even if paired with another sedan...
...As for the MKT, Lincoln isn't a very formal brand. It strikes me as a more modern than blue-blooded kind of brand. No Rolls Royce. You can be distinctive without a Spirit of Ecstasy...
I'm getting mixed vibes here...
My key words for Lincoln are "gravitas" & "princely" ("beauty", of some kind, is a given)
BUT
I include Prince Harry :wink:wink: in the 2nd concept
...I'm very set against Lincoln being too formal. The older logo, while I do like it, is still too formal. The new one is softer. I like it for the vision I have of Lincoln...
*perceiving* more mixed signals
:unsure:
re: the logo: this whittling away at the STAR that has gone on for so long, strikes me a bit like too much plastic surgery
one needs to make what one is, Work ...not do a Michael Jackson (no offense to fans)


...[*] The i series is really cool. I like that idea a lot, but as for how well youth-oriented ventures turn out as planned... Meh. It's better to just build cars that young people want to start out with. There's always that old adage about selling a young man's car to an old man...
TY but not 'chasing' 'youth'
more ""banning the boomboxes from the more exclusive box-seats""
(or is that metaphor to obtuse?)
...The i is a great idea for one or two models, but they can be trims even. An i-trimmed Lincoln Focus would be pretty sweet. Personally, I think the ST is an awesome car... but I'm not a really sport-oriented kind of guy. I appreciate power, but I like luxury. Just imagine an ST (ST performance parts with a detuned engine) Lincoln Focus with great standard features as a very cheap entry into the brand for a taste of what they have to offer. Price it below an ST, if possible. Go into Verano territory and always keep a model like that in your lineup, no matter how high you move in the luxury world. Make it a memorable car in design and performance...
umm...you struck a nerve there...
NOOOOOoooooOOOOOooooo
ie with "trims"
think my disdain of (over)trim(ming) might involve disdain for the Germans' euroTaxis that they pretend (here) don't exist

the cheap & Verano(may as well recommend Hyundai!) parts are just...
...INFAMY! (FDR), not 'memorable'


...No carbon fiber. EVER. It's not a BMW. It's not a Cadillac. Put light, unfinished stone in there. No titanium. Smooth aluminum trims. Don't get fancy on the metals. No piano black. Use the third, black wood as a sub for both carbon fiber and lacquer trims...
guess one of your nerves got struck :wink:
imho
Caddy & Beemer don't "own" carbon fiber; whether *I*/you/We like it or not is something else.
I like to *think* about Luxury timepieces(watches) for materials' ideas ... not nec. USE them tho...
&
found another/old "black wood" swatch on my HD



...For the record, I didn't look in the thread for prices. I based mine off of current Lincoln pricing...
didn't think you had
imho a web-consensus for Lincoln is growing



...You forget the time we live in. Dull is hip. :facepalm:
are you sure you're not confusing PoliticalCorrec(conformity)tness with HIP?
(neither of which are central to my vision for Lincoln)
 
#259 ·
I thought of something interesting I would like to see.

What would the front of the MKC look like if it were designed similar to the rear?

The hood would overlap the front in the center, and L I N C O L N would be spelled out instead of using the logo. The headlights could follow the design of the tail lights too.

Now, I could draw what i mean, but it would be futile. if you asked me to draw a horse and a dog, you wouldn't know which one to put the saddle on.

Any artists (or photoshop pros) here want to give it a whirl.
 
#260 ·
...like if it were designed similar to the rear?

The hood would overlap the front in the center, and L I N C O L N would be spelled out instead of using the logo. The headlights could follow the design of the tail lights too...
I'm willing to try, Logan, but how do you envisage the center of the grille?
- plain painted sheetmetal?
- same^size or wider to accommodate the " L I N C O L N "?
- all grille, not split?
- or?
 
#261 ·
I thought of something interesting I would like to see.

What would the front of the MKC look like if it were designed similar to the rear?

The hood would overlap the front in the center, and L I N C O L N would be spelled out instead of using the logo. The headlights could follow the design of the tail lights too.

Now, I could draw what i mean, but it would be futile. if you asked me to draw a horse and a dog, you wouldn't know which one to put the saddle on.

Any artists (or photoshop pros) here want to give it a whirl.
The front of a car needs to be simple, streamlined, sexy! It cannot be all of that and be a billboard at the same time IMO!!

:joyous:
 
#262 ·
woah^, TY sfbreh!



well things & ideas evolve (like the Bespoke Program idea ... btw, I *do* still show a price range of $10k or more per vehicle. So maybe it's more the words I used than the theory?...which might be more about the WAY trim-level-equivalents are presented than What they offer?)
but
part of me still likes a DNA-driven std feature list that just doesn't need much in the way of a Library-of-Congress your-way-BurgerKing-whopper specification-Book ... a central part of my "Mercury2020: THE RETURN" thread currently being polished offline (think I might give in and post Version1.0 soon...)


this ^ I don't understand
(& I most always try to keep Lincoln under 6 digits)
People will turn away from a luxury brand if it isn't exclusive. Nobody will pay 90k for a Lincoln when they can buy an S-Class. Not many, at least. So, you make your car a value to move more units. Say, start it at $60k. This gives a vehicle with a name and better luxury credentials than the lowly Equus at a comparable price while still undercutting the rest of the market. BUT, then you run into the problem of the value proposition, which would turn away real luxury customers. How do you keep those customers from walking out the door? Price their vehicles all the way up to (relatively) just shy of an S63 in price, with the features and accoutrements unheard of in this class of vehicle.

It's a 6 digit Lincoln... and it damn well deserves that price tag.

not sure I understand the only v6 part - it's not a desire of mine to limit it to v6's
but a desire to excluded 4 cyls(past tense, idea changed again**) and there being no v8's available/possible-sorta
(** currently I'm at war with having 3 cylinder engines in Lincolns but Fours are OK ...sigh)
I read it as you only wanting V6 powertrains in the cars, which in my opinion would be a terrible idea. Lincolns should offer class-competitive engines in power and economy. Not offering a 4 or even the new 3 would be stupid. Regardless of efficiency, the 3 is just for bragging rights at the very least. It's the same idea as transmissions.

"Who cares if our trans if more efficient in reality, it has more gears!" Same thing with the engines.

I'm getting mixed vibes here...
My key words for Lincoln are "gravitas" & "princely" ("beauty", of some kind, is a given)
BUT
I include Prince Harry :wink:wink: in the 2nd concept
Lincoln isn't a Rolls-Royce kind of heavily formal company. There's more than one kind of luxury or stately. Lincoln was the car of presidents, not royalty. It's an American car. America is supposed to be progressive. Rolls-Royce and the like are very Old World luxury. Lincoln should let the New World make its own statement.

*perceiving* more mixed signals
:unsure:
re: the logo: this whittling away at the STAR that has gone on for so long, strikes me a bit like too much plastic surgery
one needs to make what one is, Work ...not do a Michael Jackson (no offense to fans)
Lol'd

umm...you struck a nerve there...
NOOOOOoooooOOOOOooooo
ie with "trims"
think my disdain of (over)trim(ming) might involve disdain for the Germans' euroTaxis that they pretend (here) don't exist

the cheap & Verano(may as well recommend Hyundai!) parts are just...
...INFAMY! (FDR), not 'memorable'
The market is down-sizing and the economy is, frankly, still in shambles for most youths. A lot of people want luxuries they can't afford, so... give them luxury they can afford.

I feels you on the "memorable" part... Memorable like Town Car-memorable. Iconic.

guess one of your nerves got struck :wink:
imho
Caddy & Beemer don't "own" carbon fiber; whether *I*/you/We like it or not is something else.
I like to *think* about Luxury timepieces(watches) for materials' ideas ... not nec. USE them tho...
&
found another/old "black wood" swatch on my HD
They don't own it, but it's for the aesthetic Lincoln should be presenting. Lincolns may be barn-burners, but shouldn't be presented at such. Besides maybe the sport series I suggested, it's a bad idea to offer carbon fiber when you can offer classier choices for an inherently classier brand.
 
#263 ·
I'm crashing too fast to reply to more just now...
...The market is down-sizing and the economy is, frankly, still in shambles for most youths. A lot of people want luxuries they can't afford, so... give them luxury they can afford...
I just can't use those words about Lincoln
BUT
the way I'm seeing Mercury ('s Return) just now is
models too small, sporty or practical for Lincoln, yet at or very-near the same level of luxury & features.
as I like to say:
Lincoln is Not the Brand for Mr. Farley's "magicians", Mercury IS!

I'm picturing (& composing a new thread with) 8 models, all on 3 FoMoCo platforms, MOST actually already near-existing in non-Lux form, but with no direct Blue Oval competitor/cannabalizer in the US, ranging from about $26-44k
 
#264 ·
I'm willing to try, Logan, but how do you envisage the center of the grille?
- plain painted sheetmetal?
- same^size or wider to accommodate the " L I N C O L N "?
- all grille, not split?
- or?
Painted sheetmetal and no split grill. I guess you would have to play around with the size of the center and lettering to get it right. Thanks
 
#266 ·
umm
how can you have sheetmetal in the center without having a split grille?
The painted sheetmetal with Lincoln would be part of the hood, and dip down into the grill, but not cleave it completely in two.
 
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#267 ·
The painted sheetmetal with Lincoln would dip down into the grill, but not cleave it completely in two. The grill would be smaller altogether, and very thin underneath of this. The headlights would be repositioned to the lower part of the grill to mimic the taillights.
ok
here's a starter before messing with HLs
 
#270 ·
I like the design. Looks good. Almost similar to front offered in 1956. How would making the second line from the top a smidge bolder and connect to the center chrome line and carry across to the other side creating 2 smaller upper intake vents then change those small upper grille texture area like in the '56? Copy the 3 full width chrome bars to the below area which is all black so they look like a split grille. Would that look better or did I just make a mess of the whole thing?
 
#271 ·
I only see a red X in a box where the picture should be.
sorry Logan
maybe try copying the Url and pasting it into your browser?
Code:
http://s3.postimage.org/68dios2yr/MKC2.jpg
I used to use photobucket, but when they changed their software it stopped working for me.
Same with tinypic.com
Hope postimage.com doesn't permanently flake out on me
but
tried uploading a smaller version to facebook

page link
 
#272 ·
Looks great already 2b2.

You see the chrome piece under the foglamp. That would be cool to duplicate under the headlights, and stretching toward the center.

Another option I'd like to see...headlights filling in the areas beside the Lincoln name. This would create a much longer headlight row, eliminate two rungs of the chrome grille.
 
#273 ·
sorry Logan
maybe try copying the Url and pasting it into your browser?
Code:
http://s3.postimage.org/68dios2yr/MKC2.jpg
I used to use photobucket, but when they changed their software it stopped working for me.
Same with tinypic.com
Hope postimage.com doesn't permanently flake out on me
but
tried uploading a smaller version to facebook

page link
I actually like that a lot!

Reminiscent of the 55 Premiere
 
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