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Mission: LINCOLN!

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#1 ·
Ideal Lincoln Lineups: Vehicles - Marketing - Design - DNA
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imho part of Lincoln's problem has been having a lineup that's difficult to understand (for some).
C.J. O'Donnell, Lincoln's Director of Marketing has been using the phrase "MK Series" in a couple videos,
so here are existing and proposed models arranged into 3 'series' ... starting with the top range, once RWD finally happens

Star-series
Std Bridge of Weir leather and most other features - very few options; PLUS maybe 50% aluminum/alloy/c.f. construction
• Zodiac - Mustang-based coupecabrio & sportsedan

• Constellation - GRwdP - Continental-based swoopy '4-door-coupe'
<temp
• Continental - GRwdP - flagship sedan
<phase One (more in post#37)
Together the Continental and Constellation probably replace the mkR
• Navigator - based on nextgen lighter F-150
( approx. horsepower, all the above offer:
2.7EB 350hp -- 3.7v6 300hp -- 3.5EB 400hp -- 5.0v8 400hp -- 5.0Hybrid 400hp -- 5.0EB 600hp )

MK-series
all v6 F-Awd with std Leather and including parts not common-with-Ford being aluminum/alloy/c.f.
• mkT - restyled with more formality to resemble the Rolls Royce Phantom

• mkS - on the mkT's longer wheelbase, styled closer to the more sculpted mkT-Concept

• mkR - on the current mkS's or nextgen Taurus's wlb, new '4-door-coupe' styling

( engines for the 3 above models:
3.7v6 300hp -- 3.7Hybrid 310hp -- 2.7EB 350hp -- 3.5EB 400hp )
update: ( 5.0 v8, Awd only ...no seriously! ...Aviator too )
• mkX - more differentiation from the Edge on the new platform
( above (non-v8) engines plus a 2.7Hybrid 250hp - Yes, 2 Hybrids )
Here's where the new twist comes in. The smaller F-Awd vehicles will be in both the MK-series & the new i-series for 4 cylinder drivetrains
• mkZ - new platform & styling - exclusively uses the new (rumored) 2.7v6:

( 2.7v6 230hp -- 2.7Hybrid 250hp -- 2.7EB 350hp )
• mkG - Kuga-based, same drivetrains as the mkZ

• mkE - sedan based on longer Grand C-Max wlb ...NO Focus competition!

....and hatch/coupe based on Focus wlb ...ditto!

( same drivetrains as the mkZ & mkG including the EB)
note: in keeping with my "no performance marketing" for Lincoln idea, the RS label is not used in the U.S.
the "RS" for the Rest of the World, may be a 2.7EB MKE with a less luxurious Std trim (see i-series' features)


i-series - similar to the European Individual models

4 cylinder Only drivetrains and perhaps SLIGHTLY fewer std features; fewer exterior colors & One Interior: half Leather half microfiber-suede; & a 'simplified', mainly black grille ... possibly withOUT the name LINCOLN appearing on the cars ... these are geared to bring new/younger customers into the Lincoln showrooms

• 'Z' - may use some Mondeo trims/parts
• 'G' - may use some Kuga trims/parts
( both offer 1.6EB 180hp -- 2.0Hybrid 185hp - & maybe a 2.0EB 240hp )
• 'E' - sedan based on longer Grand C-Max wlb ...NO Focus competition!
could be marketed in Europe with a Ford grille & diesel option as the CORTINA
• 'E' - coupe or 3-door based on Focus wlb ...ditto!
could be marketed in Europe with a Ford grille, diesel, and sliding glass-roof as the CAPRI to replace the Focus-Cabrio
( both use 1.6EB 180hp -- 1.6Hybrid 160hp, at least to start)
or instead
( all offer Only a 1.6EB-PIH 210hp )
 
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#277 ·
^ just curious Why?, Logan
I guess the lower 'bumper' looks too large when that many slats are removed. Maybe keeping the two mini, and three full length slats, and putting the headlights back in their old spot would be better.

I do like the foglight chrome added to the headlights, but I think it needs the dark shadow underneath to set it off. Maybe if it could be straighter and merge with the first full length slat from the top.
 
#278 ·
I'm crashing too fast to reply to more just now...

I just can't use those words about Lincoln
BUT
the way I'm seeing Mercury ('s Return) just now is
models too small, sporty or practical for Lincoln, yet at or very-near the same level of luxury & features.
as I like to say:
Lincoln is Not the Brand for Mr. Farley's "magicians", Mercury IS!

I'm picturing (& composing a new thread with) 8 models, all on 3 FoMoCo platforms, MOST actually already near-existing in non-Lux form, but with no direct Blue Oval competitor/cannabalizer in the US, ranging from about $26-44k
Nope. You can't limit the size of a luxury brand like Lincoln. If the market eventually moves to higher volumes in smaller segments, that's where Lincoln should be.

Small cars don't dilute a brand, bad ones do. Sporty models can be Fords. Practical? Nobody uses minivans anymore, so what do you mean?

Every Lincoln moving forward should have number pad keyless entry , and I think it would be a small but important signature of the brand.
What is this, 1999? Keyless entry. No number pads.
 
#279 ·
I like the design. Looks good. Almost similar to front offered in 1956. How would making the second line from the top a smidge bolder and connect to the center chrome line and carry across to the other side creating 2 smaller upper intake vents then change those small upper grille texture area like in the '56? Copy the 3 full width chrome bars to the below area which is all black so they look like a split grille. Would that look better or did I just make a mess of the whole thing?
hey TurboS40, sorry I completely missed your post while was trying to get the 2nd chop uploaded
think I follow the idea for the upper part
but are you suggesting redoing the lower fascia opening?
Cuz that's actually what *I* really want to change - just think there's TOO Much going on down there


You can't limit the size of a luxury brand like Lincoln...
*I* definitely can't limit (or expand) Lincoln. Just trying to understand how FLincMoCo is doing both/either and seeing if I can come up with alternatives.

If the market eventually moves to higher volumes in smaller segments, that's where Lincoln should be.
Small cars don't dilute a brand, bad ones do...
some say that going "down market" is threatening MB & BMW...

...Sporty models can be Fords. Practical? Nobody uses minivans anymore, so what do you mean?
practical in a "lifestyle"/adventuresome/extreme-sports sort of way
(sorta Tag Heuer instead Patek Philippe?)
& since I'm being snobby...
I see FORD as blue collar sporty
& Mercury as white collar sporty (entrepreneur/magicians too)
& Lincoln (barely) as the clique who'd have to change wardrobe to drive a sporty vehicle
 
#280 ·
*I* definitely can't limit (or expand) Lincoln. Just trying to understand how FLincMoCo is doing both/either and seeing if I can come up with alternatives.
I didn't mean you in particular, I just generally meant that Lincoln itself can't be limited like that.

On the topic of size, I don't think a 3 series competitor is the way to go for Lincoln. CLA competitor? Yes.

some say that going "down market" is threatening MB & BMW...
What's downmarket to Lincoln, though? Make a good car at the right price and don't rest on your laurels, and you'll be great. Fortunately for Lincoln, it has no laurels on which to rest, and is thus completely immune to that.

I would consider a Verano if it were a bit more upscale. Lincoln can accomplish that. It's better than Buick, a complete alternative to Cadillac.

practical in a "lifestyle"/adventuresome/extreme-sports sort of way
(sorta Tag Heuer instead Patek Philippe?)
Why can't Ford accomplish those things? You'd fare better with selling such cars as Fords versus Mercuries. It carries more weight.

I see FORD as blue collar sporty
& Mercury as white collar sporty (entrepreneur/magicians too)
& Lincoln (barely) as the clique who'd have to change wardrobe to drive a sporty vehicle
Ford is fair. Lincoln is what you're describing as Mercury. Lincoln even takes it a step further and would be more "gold collar."
 
#281 ·
What is this, 1999? Keyless entry. No number pads.
I disagree with this I use mine all the time.

In fact I used mine a lot when I played recreation softball with a couple of friends back in RI. I used to lock my keys in the car that way I wouldn't have anything in my pockets or have to leave my keys in the dugout. It is a useful feature.
 
#282 ·
Nope. You can't limit the size of a luxury brand like Lincoln. If the market eventually moves to higher volumes in smaller segments, that's where Lincoln should be.

Small cars don't dilute a brand, bad ones do. Sporty models can be Fords. Practical? Nobody uses minivans anymore, so what do you mean?



What is this, 1999? Keyless entry. No number pads.
When economy cars are now available with keyless entry it no longer is a future that holds any merit, and a heritage brand utilizing something it has for many years could be a uniquely Lincoln brand feature.
 
#284 ·
Why not take the keyless feature further and offer power open and close doors?
Good idea, plus the keyless entry feature is tied to memory now.. not many people know that. I think after you enter your code and press 1 or 2 for which ever setting you want and put the key in the ignition it will move to that preset
 
#285 ·
returning to the discussion or part of it
People will turn away from a luxury brand if it isn't exclusive. Nobody will pay 90k for a Lincoln when they can buy an S-Class. Not many, at least. So, you make your car a value to move more units. Say, start it at $60k. This gives a vehicle with a name and better luxury credentials than the lowly Equus at a comparable price while still undercutting the rest of the market. BUT, then you run into the problem of the value proposition, which would turn away real luxury customers. How do you keep those customers from walking out the door? Price their vehicles all the way up to (relatively) just shy of an S63 in price, with the features and accoutrements unheard of in this class of vehicle...
imho (and that's all it is)
value-regardless-of-price ... a $90-99k Lincoln that compares well to a $125k-ish German isn't any more far fetched than a $60k Lincoln that rivals a $80-90k other Brand.
(Wish I had the time/patience...or better yet, someone ELSE...to make a list of $60k+base cars & their competitors)

Having just spent a couple afternoons at our local dealer-run autoshow,
(besides getting bewildered) it seems one facet of getting INTO the Lux class is being diligent and budgeted-enough not to "miss" anything feature/materials/design-wise
yet
it also FEELS like what BMW/Audi/Lexus/Porsche/LR (no MB or Jag) are really good at is more giving the 'impression' that nothing's missing than actually BEing more complete or better.

Does that make any sense?

Also, I have a feeling that Lux-Pricing is going to really 'move around' in the remainder of this decade. Where $60-90-120-150k might get interchangeably used as THE pricepoint/definition, regardless of what any demographic might think...or be willing to pay for Their version of Luxury.


edit/recap
think maybe I want to invite more discussion of how HIGH Lincoln can/should/must reach...now/5yrs/next decade
 
#286 ·
just curious...
(& didn't want this Mission to feel left out)

came across this at Bridge of Weir Leather @ facebook


imho it's just TOO much
...is it just me or a euro-thing...
opinions?



edit/also
something that sounds pretty good HERE (THANKS, N.R.!)

...the evolutionary design will be built of aluminum and steel, using that lighter material for the front end, roof and "detached body parts."

Among the new options buyers will be able to choose are the Rear Seat Package with rear seatbelt airbags and active buckles that extend, a Warmth and Comfort Package with heated seats front and back, heated armrests and side panels, and power rear seats with active ventilation and memory function. There's a chauffeur seating option that comes with 10-way adjustable rear seats, an extendable footrest and folding tables in the front seatbacks.

Blatant technology will be on display via two 12.3-inch screens, one for the dash cluster and one for the...infotainment screen on the instrument panel. The third generation of Night... will be able to detect animals as well as humans, and the next generation of Surround... will provide high-res views all around the car. A touchpad and a color head-up display will arrive in 2015...
 
#287 ·
just curious...
(& didn't want this Mission to feel left out)

came across this at Bridge of Weir Leather @ facebook


imho it's just TOO much
...is it just me or a euro-thing...
opinions?
I've never been a fan of very colorful interiors. I like my cars to have a subtle, purposeful class to them, not to scream look at meeeeee! I like the overal design of the DBS interior, just tone it done. Ironically refined is Aston Martin, refined aggression, not loud design like those brands down in Italy, but refined, yet powerful.
 
#289 ·
I was thinking and maybe the black label could be some kind of amg or M version of the lincoln products, maybe a dark grill like the mkc concept and ecoboost engines (5.0L or 5.5L o 6.2L), and the "normal" grille is like the mkz
yeah, imho practially ANYthing that will give some "DEPTH" (my brand new term) to Lincoln's offering will be MOST welcome, Jose!!



&
stealing an idea from member, jg95z28 @ GMI
If they're going to rename ATS to "Sport" and CTS to "Tour" then they may as well
just rename Cadillac to "Luxury".
Then instead you'll have Luxury Sport Coupe and Luxury Tour Sedan.
so:
LSC & LSS
LTC & LTS
BUT
since "Lincoln IS Luxury"
Lincoln+size+
coupe sedan crossover(x)
LCC & LCS & LCX - compact series
LSC & LSS & LSX - sport series
LTC & LTS & LTX - touring series
LLC & LLS & LLX - 'limousine' series
only the underlined exist so far
in order: MKC, MKZ, MKX, MKS, MKT

not exactly serious in suggesting this but it sure seems as LOGICAL as any alphabet system could be to me!
 
#291 ·
(Wish I had the time/patience...or better yet, someone ELSE...to make a list of $60k+base cars & their competitors)
The Equus.

Having just spent a couple afternoons at our local dealer-run autoshow,
(besides getting bewildered) it seems one facet of getting INTO the Lux class is being diligent and budgeted-enough not to "miss" anything feature/materials/design-wise
yet
it also FEELS like what BMW/Audi/Lexus/Porsche/LR (no MB or Jag) are really good at is more giving the 'impression' that nothing's missing than actually BEing more complete or better.

Does that make any sense?
It does, and it's true.

I was thinking and maybe the black label could be some kind of amg or M version of the lincoln products, maybe a dark grill like the mkc concept and ecoboost engines (5.0L or 5.5L o 6.2L), and the "normal" grille is like the mkz
I'd imagine Black Label will be like Platinum editions.
 
#293 ·
to be a dedicated "missionary", one has to reconcile the Bespoke Program with Black Label
Black Label being performance doesn't make much sense to me. Think about the products currently labeled as Black Label.

They don't have anything to do with performance. Has the bespoke program every been called that officially? Lincoln "Bespoke" in the context of actually naming it? I thought it was unannounced.
 
#294 ·
agree about [BlackLabel] not equaling performance
I think first of Johnnie Walker, Black = a delicious mid grade product
that's a reason I put [WhiteLabel] for Bespoke, above Black**

I can't remember how much has been said by Ford peeps
but for a while it felt like every other word out of Mr. Farley's mouth was "bespoke"



** it's somewhere earlier in this thread (or maybe the Bespoke thread)
&
a new thought: Could [BlackLabel] be intended as a new-higher base/Std feature-set (& price) like I've been ranting for to replace the MESS that the new Z currently has??
 
#296 ·
transplanting from the LincStang the Beginning thread...
...Just as important is a fullsized RWD sedan for the "black car" limo market. The narrow MKS & MKT just don't cut it. Such a fullsized sedan wouldn't share its chassis with the next Mustang but it could share suspension components, engines, and transmissions to save on development and manufacturing costs.
agree/except:
...important is a fullsized RWD sedan for the trueLux S-class market...
_wlb___ovl_
123.7 - 221.4 - TownCar-L
117.7 - 215.4 - TownCar
117.9 - 207.6 - MKT
124.6 - 206.5 - S-class (long wheelbase/all US cars)
112.9 - 204.1 - MKS
???.? - ???.? - short wlb S-class #'s not found ...however

MotorTrend:
...The next-generation S-Class could be available in seven variants including a two-door convertible and six-door Pullman-style limo. Short wheelbase models could stretch 200.8 inches overall with long-wheelbase (7.1-inch longer), extra-long wheelbase (13.8 inches longer), and Pullman (25.6 inches longer) models...
nextgen guesstimates:
120.0 - 200.8
127.1 - 207.9
133.8 - 213.8
145.6 - 225.6
imho
those last 2 "luxo barges" with wlbs over 130" get NO benefit from being Rwd-based, in fact it probably hurts them + plus tempts MB to make split-rearseat 4-seaters out of them ...which imho verges on obscene-consumption!
&
imho Lincoln could do better not forgetting the 1979-1993 W126 S-class
120.9 - 203.1 - long
115.6 - 197.6 - short
112.2 - 193.3 - coupe
so
I'm definitely sticking with a Continental that targets the 'midst' of the E/S & 5/7, or the W126 short/long, "s p r e a d"
plus a D3/4/5/... MKS-derivative for fat-cat, not prom-queen, limousines ...which one could still drive without wearing a driver's uniform&cap (tho providing a version approaching that role too)
&
looking at the W126 coupe numbers makes wonder about a CD4+3 nextgen ''MKS'' cutdown to MKZ-length as a higher-Lux coupe...
on^ my 'to-chop' list!! - I can't see the Z itself as a coupe



&
edit: transplanting from the Navigator drops v8 for EB thread
most/all aluminum & 3 drivetrains:
- 2.3EB4-Mpg-Hybrid(plug-in?), 350hp
- 2.9EB6, 400hp (these 2 =same price, your choice)
- 2.9EB6-Power-Hybrid(plug-in!), 500hp

click^ for larger

the Hybrids would be Virtual-Awd with the electrics driving just the front wheels;
the non-hybrid would be Rwd only;
HP numbers based on reports of 140-per-liter for gen2 EBs
 
#297 ·
^ thinking/remembering about previous ideas,
specifically the 700hp 5.0EBv8,
so
maybe Lincoln should should offer limited availability on the Navigator, Continental, & LincStang
like maybe only 700 of each?
&
even have the customers BID on the right to order them
after that
the authorized customer selects which dealer they want for delivery
= no pre-authorized dealers
(thinking the nextgen F-150 would have a 5.0EB version
so maybe the full-time(?) 4WD-only drivetrain could be adapted
)


also
a comment elsewhere about large side mirrors causing highway-speed drag
suggested
the Navigator might be the first Lincoln to offer winglet-cameras instead,
as part of a surround-camera parking aid
(need to research how brands that offer 360° systems do it)
 
#298 ·
made a list of MKZ update suggestions for GMI so...

• nextgen 2.0EB (280hp) or 2.3EB (320hp) to replace the current (240hp) 2.0EB
• a Lincoln exclusive 2.3-Atkinson for the Hybrid (210?total-hp instead of 188hp)**
• the 2.7/2.9 Nano EB (375-400hp) instead of or in addition to the 300hp 3.7v6
in addition to those there are a few easy-enough changes I'm hoping for:
• colors...just make the non-black-upholstery more designer-ish
.... Dune, go back to the nearly-white Cashmere
.... Hazelnut, make it a bit more vibrant/euro reddish-tan
.... adding one more choice would great! "Bespoke Program"?
.... Paint, a couple more colors esp non-Ford colors "Bespoke Program"??
• trim-level packages...redo!! & take the opportunity of the engine upgrades to combine the lower 2 trims into a higher ba$e trim (imho what [BlackLabel] could be all about), combine the other 2 into a mid-trim, and make the toptrim = simply fully-loaded (except panoroof = only option)
• exterior options: a different wheel style, a different finish for the grille & moldings (I might also like all the black rocker/lower plastic replaced with chrome! think it'd look more subtle than it sounds way down there)
• "Bespoke Program" fine with me if they start small, like just with bundle-ing the new colors, wheels, & molding; based on the mid-trim-level + individual check-boxes for optional features


** wonder if a 2.7v6-Atkinson with cylinder-deactivation would work? ...could produce 238 total-hp (50 more than the FusionHybrid) and cruise the highway on just 3 cylinders??
 
#299 ·
How about 3 trim levels like they had in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

Executive Series
Signature Series
Designer Series

Since they don't have the partnership with Cartier anymore use Designer
 
#300 ·
made a list of MKZ update suggestions for GMI so...

...
in addition to those there are a few easy-enough changes I'm hoping for:
• colors...just make the non-black-upholstery more designer-ish
.... Dune, go back to the nearly-white Cashmere
.... Hazelnut, make it a bit more vibrant/euro reddish-tan
.... adding one more choice would great! "Bespoke Program"?
.... Paint, a couple more colors esp non-Ford colors "Bespoke Program"??
With the interior, they did a half baked job...Right now, Hazel still gets you some dune, and some black trim and liner pieces. Make it look like they put an effort into it!!!

Optional grills. Several styles, and choices of black or body color as well.

Adjustable rear seat height. This could give the option to lower the rear seat a couple inches when needed. I would rather have my knees at an angle, than have my head rubbing the liner.

Better integration of radio antennae on models with sunroof.

New steering wheel that does not look like it came from the Fusion.

Center console that does not look like a reject android from the first Star Wars movie.

....
 
#301 ·
How about 3 trim levels like they had in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

Executive Series
Signature Series
Designer Series

Since they don't have the partnership with Cartier anymore use Designer
I'm not sure, Andrew - think I prefer the sound of [Black Label] (maybe pertaining to the whole new trim approach) ...and prolley [WhiteLabel] for the Bespoke program (tho wouldn't actually want a different color [Label] for each trim level).
Actually suspect trim names like 'Signature' are too strong, as in stronger than the MODEL nomenclature CZXST

also would like to get away from hierarchical trim terms (or what sounds hierarchical) for: more individual preferences
(rant:
tho Americans DO have a mis-guided fixation that there's a BEST in every possible category > FALSE!
"get me the best doctor" "bring me your best wine" "move to the best neighborhood"
all^ make me sick
so many people can't take "responsibility" for LIKING something
DOH)


With the interior, they did a half baked job...Right now, Hazel still gets you some dune, and some black trim and liner pieces. Make it look like they put an effort into it!!!...
all-one-color/shade & multi-tone can both be good or bad depending, imho
personally I wouldn't want hazel/tan OR black (or any strong color) to be on EVERY interior surface


...Adjustable rear seat height. This could give the option to lower the rear seat a couple inches when needed. I would rather have my knees at an angle, than have my head rubbing the liner...
YES!
& even the FRONT seats, like in the original FiveHundred could've been more adjustable - like for basketball(size)players (pet peeve if the biggest cars can't fit the biggest people)

...New steering wheel that does not look like it came from the Fusion.
hopefully the separate Design Center will eventually lead to this ... Plus LM-only switchgear

...Center console that does not look like a reject android from the first Star Wars movie...
think that's what I call "robot-face" ... imho asian brands are some of the worst
 
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