XTS vs MKS vs the LuxWorld - CR via AutoNews

[nruggiero]

We probably will never see another Thunderbird either because the "Mustang Brand" gets all the attention.

The last Thunderbird wasn't very successful. The design wasn't very good. If Ford thinks about doing one, they should not use retro design. It should be another 2-seater also. The base price, if well executed, would be around $55,000. They could sell the hell out of those. I would be first in line to buy one.

[nruggiero]

The problem is Lincoln has not really competed with RR and Bentley since the 50's? That is a REALLY long time.
I have no issue with Lincoln offering a few FWD based models. I think the MKZ is a fine car to compete with the Lexus ES like the Continental from 88-02 did. I would LOVE for Lincoln to return to their roots and offer a full size RWD Flagship.

I said before... and this is just my own opinion but I think Lincoln does not need a FULL lineup. They dominated with 3 models in the 90s

MKZ - FWD/AWD Volume Mid Size Sedan
MKX - FWD/AWD Volume Mid Side CUV
MKG - FWD/AWD Volume Small CUV
LS - RWD/AWD Mid Size Sports Sedan
Mark IX - RWD/AWD Mid Size Coupe based on the LS
Continental - RWD/AWD Full Size Sedan
Continental Town Car - RWD/AWD Full Size Extended Length Sedan
Navigator - Full Size RWD/4x4 Full Size SUV

MKT stays for livery only.

I think this would be a solid lineup, you cover the high end prestige, the sportiness, and the volume.

The Continental Mark II was the last model that competed with them. Lincoln has been in decline for a long time. The **** is just now hitting the fan. Lincoln should compete with them only if those cars are very well executed. Those vehicles are extremely profitable.

IMO, FWD is the root of all evil. Look what happened in the 80s when Cadillac went FWD.

I agree. They don't need a huge line like MB and BMW. Lincoln should not be all about volume just as long as they're a profitable brand. Look at RR and Bentley. They sell around 2,000 or more vehicles a year that cost $250,000 or more.

IMHO, Lincoln should stay out of the livery market. It cheapens its image.

Not a bad lineup, but I wish the MK crap didn't exist or should I say the FWD models.

[2b2]

I've had to wait all day to have time to respond to this thread...

I have that feeling too.... i dont know, but Ford dont want more RWD cars... I hope i am wrong

Because the Mustang is like a sacred product for them, it almost seems like they don't want to share anything with it, they want it to be exclusive. Also when they had those videos with Scott Tobin he said AWD is where they wanted to focus.

Imho FoMoCo *has to* expand the use of the Mustang platform - I'm thinking (by) 2020 - or they won't be able to profitably update it
&
imho the (lack of) future of petroleum means there will continue to be MAJOR updating needed in trying to keep the ponycar mystique alive with harsh realities, regulatory & economic.

We probably will never see another Thunderbird either because the "Mustang Brand" gets all the attention.

Imho the main threats to another "Thunderbird" are the SHO and Fusion-Titanium
(I'm NOT in favor of ANY 2-seater unless the economy has a huge/long upturn)
tho new flexible platforms COULD make one doable; I haven't seen FoMoCo do ANYthing that would show them to be "PRO-CHOICE"

The problem is Lincoln has not really competed with RR and Bentley since the 50's? That is a REALLY long time.
I have no issue with Lincoln offering a few FWD based models. I think the MKZ is a fine car to compete with the Lexus ES like the Continental from 88-02 did. I would LOVE for Lincoln to return to their roots and offer a full size RWD Flagship...
...
MKT stays for livery only...

Andrew, I copied your full post to Mission:LINCOLN
for here, I just want to say
- Lincoln being at Rolls' level was an aberration with the ContiMK2 imho/afaik
- "fullsize" has much less meaning, let alone sales, nowadays
- if the new Z replaces the Fwd-Conti, what could a "real" Conti be?
- the MKT is a DISTRACTION now imho which I fully expect to be squished out of existence by the new Navi & Aviator
AND
- screw livery sales!
Let them buy & stretch Fords (Taurus/Explorer/Flex) with custom grilles & interiors

...The Next MKS based on the stretched Fusion is more of a replacement for the Continental (stretched Taurus which was a mid-size at the time).

The re-stlying of the MKS just looks miserable in this picture. This vehicle is only giving Lincoln a deeper hole to dig itself out of.

of course I'm still hoping either the CD4+3 or coming "modular platform" are also flexible enough to be longitudinal RWD! (...for LINCOLN!!)
&
Did you mean the pix in the original article, Logan?
(I won't disagree for any MKS photo after its first 12 months of sales
when its "best by date" expired)

&
imho
rather than try to come up with a 'perfect' design theme
Lincoln should change/update their styling EVERY year**. . .
. . . until their customers tell them to Stop!



** graphics/details = every year (possibly as special pkgs)
+ sheetmetal tweaks = every other
+ whole new tophat every 3rd
unless NAIAS *amazes* me; I have NO faith left in the Approvers to greenlight the "right stuff"

[BMuscl]

Please keep in mind though, that we haven't seen ANYTHING YET with the full Max Wolff treatment. I think the next Focus based CUV/sedan will be the first. (2013 MKZ only got his grill design as everything else on the car had already been finished by the time he was hired.) I also wish that they fire the guys who keep approving the corporate pics of the MKS. It looks WAY better in person and should be photographed from a standing view instead of the crouched down position they keep shooting it from. Also, I'd use the blue graphite color instead of the requisite "silver" or "gray". It looks much more elegant and upscale IMHO.

Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using AutoGuide.Com Free App

[2b2]

^ BMuscl
from the little I've heard, the MKC exterior won't be all that different from the Escape
so NOT "the full Max Wolff treatment" once again...
...starting to wonder if there even IS such a thing.
Really hope that's not the case
BUT
if true, they don't have the excuse of 'not enough time' for it.

re: the Smoked Quartz paint, if that's what you're referring to;
Agree it's gorgeous (in pix) but imho Lincoln needs more exclusive high-end colors.
At LEAST one for every debut
& since the S.Q. paint debuted on the MKS update, they're already 'one-behind';
afaik the new Z didn't show a unique paint.

The whole situation seems very un-Crimmas to me - - practically nothing to look forward to or expect to be surprised by.
:grinch: :grinch: :grinch:

Guess when we see the Littlest Lincoln, I'll have to start a Poll:
"MKC = great present or lump of coal?"

[SP1966]

The last Thunderbird wasn't very successful. The design wasn't very good. If Ford thinks about doing one, they should not use retro design. It should be another 2-seater also. The base price, if well executed, would be around $55,000. They could sell the hell out of those. I would be first in line to buy one.

The problem the Thunderbird nameplate faces is that if Ford were to do another two seater it would have to be a premium vehicle, it would have to be a Lincoln.

[SP1966]

^ BMuscl
from the little I've heard, the MKC exterior won't be all that different from the Escape
so NOT "the full Max Wolff treatment" once again...

Where do you come up with this? I've read that as with the MKZ, all Lincoln's gong forward would have unique sheet metal. If I recall correctly there were some spy shots that appeared to show the wheelbase as being a bit larger then the Escape.

If they release the MKC as a slightly changed Escape then its over IMO, shut her down.

[TurboS40]

Does the next Thunderbird have to be a 2-seater? The Thunderbird did better when a backseat was offered. Thunderbird could be successful and not invade Lincoln territory if done as a proper 4-seat 4-door "coupe" design along with a a regular 2-door coupe. The T-bird would be an extended Mustang wheelbase (MKR Donor) for better rear seat room which would allow for a longer wheelbase to be used on the next Lincoln MKontinental.

I thought Lincoln was showing something at LA this year? There was an article a few months ago (which I don't remember where) saying Lincoln would have a showing yet the LA Auto show site doesn't mention anything..... The LA Auto Show site Press Conference schedule (as of 2p today 11/27/12) only has Ford scheduled but no Lincoln time slot.

[T'Cal]

The last Continentals weren't Lincoln's flagship; the Town Car was. A new one could be, though. I like the idea of a full line up of vehicles for Lincoln and I too believe that a Mustang-based coupe, sedan, and convertible should be part of such a plan. Up until recently, Mustang nearly always shared its platform with Mercurys and Lincolns. The next model will be the best one yet, which is reason enough to share it with Lincoln, the money savings of platform sharing notwithstanding. Heck, the current Mustang GT and Boss 302 are often compared to the BMW M3, the standard for sport coupes and sedans by most standards. Lastly, I would love to see a 5 passenger T-bird built off a stretched/widened Mustang platform. A DI version of the 3.7L would return a great balance of performance and fuel economy.

[nruggiero]

Does the next Thunderbird have to be a 2-seater?

It doesn't. I just prefer a 2-seater. They could offer both.