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S650 already in planning for 2020 delivery?

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s550 s650
36K views 98 replies 25 participants last post by  Bloggin 
#1 ·
See page 15 of attached PDF
 

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#4 · (Edited)
^

:joyous:

or....
swiped from Mustang6g



& for a bit of heresy
,
bringing back an old idea,
wondering if it'd be possible to have 2 modular front-end structures?
one = smaller/lighter for 4cylEB & n/a 2.7v6
other = bigger/stronger for turbo-6(s) and a v8
?
with more models built off the architecture (speculation), think it might be feasible...for ROI/volume too

.
 
#13 · (Edited)
^

:joyous:

or....
swiped from Mustang6g



& for a bit of heresy
,
bringing back an old idea,
wondering if it'd be possible to have 2 modular front-end structures?
one = smaller/lighter for 4cylEB & n/a 2.7v6
other = bigger/stronger for turbo-6(s) and a v8
?
with more models built off the architecture (speculation), think it might be feasible...for ROI/volume too
Just make a strong structure period. :D

That rendering above looks like a Corvette-ized Mustang.

Let me revive this old chop of mine.
Making the Mustang more compact by trimming the overhangs (mostly at the rear) to bring it close to the 1967 Mustang's length of 183.6 inches while keeping the same passenger area dimensions as the current model (it's still a 4 seater).
 

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#6 ·
Copying this from a post i did on another thread.What are the expectations for the next Stang? Any chance of aluminum being used or more composites? We know the Mustang is getting the 10-speed before the next gen so likely no changes their. What about the dimensions of the car, will they change? The new Camaro is the same exact length, but will nearly 3 more inches in the wheelbase, it's also around an inch short and and inch narrower. I personally wouldn't be surprised to see some changes under the hood. Maybe go the same route as the Camaro and have the 4cyl as base (310hp) a V6 is mid level, but maybe like the 3.5 Ecoboost with close to 400hp, and a revised Coyote with DI and using some bits off the Voodoo(heads, cams,intake all fit) pushing around 475-500hp. I do expect most of the suspension goodies including the fancy shocks to trickle down to the GT as well as the brakes. Looks wise I think they will just need to be an evolution as the current S550 is gorgeous. Just spit balling here though.
 
#7 ·
What are the expectations for the next Stang?
Here's mine:

Drop between 150-200 lbs, the more the better.

And yeah, that's it, nothing wrong with the current 'Stang that a little less weight and a little more power (coming this gen IMO) couldn't fix.

Regarding S650 itself, I like pretty much every other human being on this planet hope it's more more flexible allowing for specifically a small Lincoln sports sedan/coupe/convertible and possibly the return of the Falcon, though not just for those damned Aussies!

I really think that flexibility is pretty much a design requirement in order to justify the continued existence of a Mustang platform. They need to have more vehicles on the platform to help amortize the development expense which in turn will allow them to be little more generous with their budget resulting in better vehicles all around. Of course they need to be able to do so without driving the price of a Mustang out of Pony car territory like Chevy did with the Camaro.
 
#8 ·
I know most of us have been more than a little shocked not to see an S550 based Lincoln, even if only in coupe/convertible form. I now believe they felt there were too many limitations with S550 for what they wanted to do on a Lincoln version so they focused their attention on S650. I believe a more flexible S650 is being developed with Lincoln as an equal with the Mustang and it is with this in mind that S550's life span has been shortened.

I think taking two years off of S550's life was because they want to get the Lincoln on the road sooner and they can't run an S550 based Mustang down the same production line as an S650 based Lincoln.

Maybe I'm just dreaming here, but the math works in my head!

:)
 
#11 ·
Base GT is 35lbs heavier than all new base SS. Very competitive.

Relative to the immense cost (to customer) of reducing weight, bumping power is free and will help to make an few extra lbs feel non existent. Adding 10 speed will help immensely as well.

Mustang is a success because of the value option. I hope Ford is careful with their strategy here. Upgrade options works pretty good, and I hope they continue that path.
 
#14 ·
My expectations for the next Mustang are the same as I hope to find in the MCE:

More power for the 4 and 8 cylinder engines, maybe a bump with a touch of refinement for the V6.

Some chassis/steering upgrades, as the current setup is one of the only universal issues I've read about with the current car.

Some weight relief, though I expect evolving safety regs to continue to slap pounds onto every vehicle.

Finally, and maybe most importantly, at least one chassis-mate, something to both spread out the R&D costs and to keep RWD a priority for the company in general. I think that a single model will always suffer more bean-counter-caused compromises than a platform that has to satisfy a few needs.
 
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#18 ·
My expectations for the next Mustang are the same as I hope to find in the MCE:

More power for the 4 and 8 cylinder engines, maybe a bump with a touch of refinement for the V6.

Some chassis/steering upgrades, as the current setup is one of the only universal issues I've read about with the current car.

Some weight relief, though I expect evolving safety regs to continue to slap pounds onto every vehicle.

Finally, and maybe most importantly, at least one chassis-mate, something to both spread out the R&D costs and to keep RWD a priority for the company in general. I think that a single model will always suffer more bean-counter-caused compromises than one that has to be impress more than one audience.
 
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#21 ·
I guess when really thinking about about it with an all new chassis a decent weight loss is possible. Plus if they cut down on the overall length a little bit and maybe add a little to the wheelbase that would help too. I'm really eager to see what Ford does, eager to see new or updated engines under the hood too. We all know Ford has left a lot on the table when it comes to power with the Coyote and Ecoboost, and personally unless they add an Ecoboost V6 to mix as the mid level I'd say just drop the V6 altogether and just have the 2.3 as the base. Or offer the 2.3 in two different states of tune like 305hp for base and 350hp for mid.
 
#22 ·
The Mustang needs to be ligther and smaller. Not too much smaller, but yes, a longer wheelbase with shorter overhangs will help to more spacious inside and more agile car.

There are a market for a 250 to 300 HP version. Mustang is a Pony car. A Pony car is a powerful, affordable coupe. The "affordable" part of the formula is the possibility of buy a 250-270 HP Mustang for 24K $. A naturaly aspired V6 is a cheap option for this kind of car. Even, a normally aspired 4 cyl or an ecoboost 3 cyl engine are options, too.
 
#24 ·
The Coyote is unquestionably a great engine, one that doesn't get it's due because it's two primary rivals have such a big displacement advantage. It'll be very interesting to see just how much extra power they can extract with direct injection and any other updates that'll come with the 'Stangs MCE.

The thing that's interesting about the Big3 engines is the Coyote is the smallest in displacement by a significant margin, and yet the largest in physical dimensions and no lighter either. If you told me 15 years ago OHV engines would evolve as well as they have I would have been shocked, completely, totally shocked! GM has done a spectacular job with old, simple tech!
 
#25 ·
The thing that's interesting about the Big3 engines is the Coyote is the smallest in displacement by a significant margin, and yet the largest in physical dimensions and no lighter either. If you told me 15 years ago OHV engines would evolve as well as they have I would have been shocked, completely, totally shocked! GM has done a spectacular job with old, simple tech!
Thats one of the reasons the LS motor swap is so popular, they are compact as ****, can fit in anything. Still though I would like to see the Coyote gain parts from the Voodoo, maybe the heads or intake at least.
 
#26 · (Edited)
I am currently pricing and can build a carbureted 1971 340 cubic inch (5.6L) engine today that is very streetable, with high vacuum (~15in), with nothing more exotic than aluminum heads and intake, and very rugged and dependable and can manage 20mpg pretty easily….to the tune of 470hp. I have the recipe of parts and can share it. Torque is 450ftlbs. This is with no CAE or exotic tuning, other than a few hours of dyno time to dial it all in.

GM’s latest 6.2L that is CAE optimized to the nth degree, DI, etc. is at 455hp.

Both great engines.
If I had to hand out accolades, I don’t know if GM pushed the envelope as much as we are lead to believer. New 5.0L when it launches in a year with about 470hp, is more impressive. Torque should be around 435ftlbs. Very respectable for only 5.0L. Displacement adjusted, it would be over 580hp.

As for package space, they are about the same. 5.0L is actually shorter. Does not really matter, if there is room under the hood.

And yes, I recognize how emissions figures into this.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Somewhat unrelated but possibly related to this next Mustang discussion: the original posting listed the D258 Taurus' end of production being extended from 2017 to 2023 or beyond... WTF? I thought the Taurus replacement was due later this year or early next year as a 2017 or 2018 model. Is Ford really giving a giant middle finger to fans of low cost large sedans and conceding the domestic market to GM and Mopar? Or are they changing lanes and possibly planning a Taurus replacement off the Mustang hardware?! [edit] I am aware of the Lincoln plans, was hoping for a new Taurus too.
 
#32 · (Edited)
Just for fun....I want to see a performance/cost comparison between these two....
2015 Mustang GT Convertible Manual



Base price: $42,695

Power: 435hp
Torque: 400 ft-lb
Passenger Volume: 81 cubic feet
Cargo Volume: 11 cubic feet
Curb Weight: 3948 lb

0-60: 4.7s
0-100: 11.2s
0-130: 19.4s
Standing ¼-mile: 13.2 sec @ 110 mph
Top speed (mfr's est): 155 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 157 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.90 g

EPA city/highway: 15/25 mpg
C/D observed: 16 mpg

2015 Mercedes-Benz SL400



Base Price: $84,925

Power: 329 hp
Torque: 354 lb-ft
Passenger volume: 54 cubic ft
Cargo volume: 9-14 cubic ft
Curb weight: 3843 lb

0-60 mph: 4.6 sec
0-100 mph: 11.1 sec
0-130 mph: 19.8 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.1 sec @ 109 mph
Top speed (governor limited, mfr's est): 155 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 167 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.92 g

EPA city/highway: 20/27 mpg
C/D observed: 19 mpg

and for comparison to the new model:
2017 Mercedes-Benz SL-class



Base price: $88,000 (SL450; I decided to not look at the AMGs)

Power: 362hp
Torque: 369 ft-lb
Passenger Volume: 54 cubic feet
Cargo Volume: 9-14 cubic feet
Curb Weight: >3800 lb

(THESE ARE ESTIMATES FROM C/D)
0-60 mph: 4.5 sec
0-100 mph: 11.0 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 12.9 sec
Top speed: 155 mph

Sources: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-ford-mustang-gt-convertible-manual-test-review

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-mercedes-benz-sl400-test-review

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-mercedes-benz-sl-class-first-drive-review
 
#44 ·
D6 designates a new mid to large platform family that will underpin both sedan and CUV variants, across both brands, spanning many combinations of vehicles. Flexible manufacturing and drivetrain packaging is the enabler here, and will allow for FWD, RWD or AWD as well.

Ford will not have to limit itself to a couple vehicles to justify costs. That is the game plan, anyhoo. Sounds like a good one.
 
#49 ·
The span from 2005-14 was on the same chassis (S197 I believe). So when looked at from that perspective then the S550 is definitely working on a compressed timeline. And I think it's because Ford wants to make a more sophisticated Mustang, because they know that they need to going forward. It's the new normal, and not just because of Alpha. FCA is about to start selling the Giulia platform, and if they want to survive you can be sure at some point it'll be getting Dodge badges and a Hemi.
 
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