Ford bringing an affordable model my 2022 - Page 2 - Ford Inside News Community
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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 07:49 PM
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Re: Ford bringing an affordable model my 2022

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What they have in mind are low-margin vehicles of the kind they just abandoned. What else can "affordable" mean?
Sooooo, you are not OK with Ford bringing in a lower price point? Dam if they do and don't? Make up your mind. Who cares if they basically bring back a re-imagined Focus or similar built only for American market, as long as they do, I am glad.

I really wanted the Focus Active, although it would have crossed swords a bit too closely with the EcoSport....which I would be happy if they replaced. But my guess would be a $18-19K MSRP product, offering enough space from the $21K EcoSPort. And margins has much to do with where they make it.

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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 11:40 PM
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Re: Ford bringing an affordable model my 2022

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Sooooo, you are not OK with Ford bringing in a lower price point? Dam if they do and don't? Make up your mind.
Sooooo, you like to put your words in other people's mouths.

If you actually read my posts rather than just react, you would know that I have been consistently critical of Ford's decision to deep-six sedans (low-margin vehicles) and highly critical of Ford shooting for only high-margin SUV/CUVs. Please don't play that game. Both of our opinions regarding the correctness of that high-margin decision are on public display here at FIN; yours mostly for (yes, you did write in favor of the Focus), mine consistently against.

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Originally Posted by wingsnut View Post
Who cares if they basically bring back a re-imagined Focus or similar built only for American market, as long as they do, I am glad.

I really wanted the Focus Active, although it would have crossed swords a bit too closely with the EcoSport....which I would be happy if they replaced. But my guess would be a $18-19K MSRP product, offering enough space from the $21K EcoSPort. And margins has much to do with where they make it.
So I ask, have you now changed your mind about the rationale behind Ford's decision to not offer low-margin product in the U.S.? Make up your mind.

Last edited by glyphics; 04-19-2019 at 11:52 PM.
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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 11:47 PM
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Re: Ford bringing an affordable model my 2022

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Clearly, within Ford there was high-level internal reaction to the decision to end all sedan/hatch production and sales in the U.S. This announcement seems to be a partial rollback of that decision.

Ford could have evolved the lower-end sedan/hatches into a new higher CG form without all the disruption of end-all, now start-from-scratch announcements.
I can't make myself clearer than that.
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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-20-2019, 01:06 AM
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Re: Ford bringing an affordable model my 2022

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Originally Posted by glyphics View Post
Sooooo, you like to put your words in other people's mouths.

If you actually read my posts rather than just react, you would know that I have been consistently critical of Ford's decision to deep-six sedans (low-margin vehicles) and highly critical of Ford shooting for only high-margin SUV/CUVs. Please don't play that game. Both of our opinions regarding the correctness of that high-margin decision are on public display here at FIN; yours mostly for (yes, you did write in favor of the Focus), mine consistently against.



So I ask, have you now changed your mind about the rationale behind Ford's decision to not offer low-margin product in the U.S.? Make up your mind.

Twist the wording any way you like, but if Ford based any future investment on products they calculate to produce bigger margins than Fiesta / Focus, and no doubt more desireable as well.......then so be it.

That is my only point here.

Your point continues to be, that they ****** up.

My guess, you never ran a business. If you did, then you would know their number one priority is NOT volume of sales.

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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-20-2019, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingsnut View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glyphics View Post
Sooooo, you like to put your words in other people's mouths.

If you actually read my posts rather than just react, you would know that I have been consistently critical of Ford's decision to deep-six sedans (low-margin vehicles) and highly critical of Ford shooting for only high-margin SUV/CUVs. Please don't play that game. Both of our opinions regarding the correctness of that high-margin decision are on public display here at FIN; yours mostly for (yes, you did write in favor of the Focus), mine consistently against.



So I ask, have you now changed your mind about the rationale behind Ford's decision to not offer low-margin product in the U.S.? Make up your mind.

Twist the wording any way you like, but if Ford based any future investment on products they calculate to produce bigger margins than Fiesta / Focus, and no doubt more desireable as well.......then so be it.

That is my only point here.

Your point continues to be, that they ****** up.

My guess, you never ran a business. If you did, then you would know their number one priority is NOT volume of sales.
His point was clear all along, but it is really hard to see beyond your bubble...

He is right, killing all cars was not a smart business decision, even if they are low margin! Rolling back this decision is just an effect of dealer feedback....even my Ford dealer was unhappy about it. The Ecosport is not a suitable replacement, it’s a POS on wheels and can’t even be compared to a Focus.
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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-20-2019, 11:03 AM
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Re: Ford bringing an affordable model my 2022

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His point was clear all along, but it is really hard to see beyond your bubble...

He is right, killing all cars was not a smart business decision, even if they are low margin! Rolling back this decision is just an effect of dealer feedback....even my Ford dealer was unhappy about it. The Ecosport is not a suitable replacement, it’s a POS on wheels and can’t even be compared to a Focus.
Right, because Ford's priority is to get positive dealer feedback?

Wrong. Their priority is profit. Why is this so hard to learn. Fiesta was near zero, Focus was barely above that, except in high trim variants. Why spend millions to redo them? I am looking forward to what they have in mind.

And yeah, EcoSport sucks. I already suggested Focus Active would be a better replacement. Try to comprehend what you read please.

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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-20-2019, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingsnut View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellb0y View Post
His point was clear all along, but it is really hard to see beyond your bubble...

He is right, killing all cars was not a smart business decision, even if they are low margin! Rolling back this decision is just an effect of dealer feedback....even my Ford dealer was unhappy about it. The Ecosport is not a suitable replacement, it’s a POS on wheels and can’t even be compared to a Focus.
Right, because Ford's priority is to get positive dealer feedback?

Wrong. Their priority is profit. Why is this so hard to learn. Fiesta was near zero, Focus was barely above that, except in high trim variants. Why spend millions to redo them? I am looking forward to what they have in mind.

And yeah, EcoSport sucks. I already suggested Focus Active would be a better replacement. Try to comprehend what you read please.
Your simplistic view of the consumer market - by putting profit as #1 priority - is simply dumb...

Bubble boy!
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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-20-2019, 03:00 PM
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Re: Ford bringing an affordable model my 2022

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Your simplistic view of the consumer market - by putting profit as #1 priority - is simply dumb...

Bubble boy!
OK troll, I will ask knowing you will not answer.....but if profit and by default shareholder value is not #1, what is.


Good luck with that.

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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-20-2019, 08:10 PM
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Re: Ford bringing an affordable model my 2022

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Twist the wording any way you like, but if Ford based any future investment on products they calculate to produce bigger margins than Fiesta / Focus, and no doubt more desireable as well.......then so be it.

That is my only point here.

Your point continues to be, that they ****** up.

My guess, you never ran a business. If you did, then you would know their number one priority is NOT volume of sales.
I twisted no words. I didn't have to. You got my drift; Ford ****** up.

Ford makes a very decent profit yet Ford's shareholder value is in the toilet. That's what got Ford all shook up in the first place. So Ford announces the death of its low-margin vehicles in order to beef up profits. Then Ford announces investment into new low-margin vehicles. Dearborn can't make up its mind. Tennis anyone?

If Ford sold their low-margin cars at sufficient sales volumes they would not have been axed. People vote with their dollars. Customers will not buy a sloppy product when the competition offers something better and more exciting at the same price point. That's business 101.

Wings, as an engineer, I thought you would be a car guy not a bean counter. Yet you seem to be all too eager to toe the party-line, whatever it happens to be this week. You are a Ford employee; I get it. I just happen not to have my eggs in that basket so I can say what I wish.

Last edited by glyphics; 04-20-2019 at 08:16 PM.
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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 04-20-2019, 08:38 PM
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Re: Ford bringing an affordable model my 2022

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Originally Posted by glyphics View Post
I twisted no words. I didn't have to. You got my drift; Ford ****** up.

Ford makes a very decent profit yet Ford's shareholder value is in the toilet. That's what got Ford all shook up in the first place. So Ford announces the death of its low-margin vehicles in order to beef up profits. Then Ford announces investment into new low-margin vehicles. Dearborn can't make up its mind. Tennis anyone?

If Ford sold their low-margin cars at sufficient sales volumes they would not have been axed. People vote with their dollars. Customers will not buy a sloppy product when the competition offers something better and more exciting at the same price point. That's business 101.

Wings, as an engineer, I thought you would be a car guy not a bean counter. Yet you seem to be all too eager to toe the party-line, whatever it happens to be this week. You are a Ford employee; I get it. I just happen not to have my eggs in that basket so I can say what I wish.
It is quite possible that Ford did **** up, I have said this before. Time will tell for sure, and killing the cars thing was a cat that got out of the bag, not exactly something they announced internally. But I happen to agree that if they kept on the same path without a bit of radical change, then no change would come and shareholder value needle would not budge much, if at all. This same path would assume that pumping millions into making the Fiesta and Focus the best products in the world, yet margins remain exactly where they are, all while volumes continue to drop. Where is the logic in that? Gone today is the thinking that you offer them a cheap product, and keep them coming back with bigger, higher margin products as they grow families, etc. People switch brands like underwear. So again, that argument is up in smoke too. And let's not forget how consumers today have so many transportation options, to where kids don't even hurry to get their drivers licence - especially if they have an Uber app that takes them where they want to go with no investment. And finally, and this IMHO is the biggest factor that is already transforming Ford internally - electrification and autonomy. A complete upheaval is beginning to take place internally, driven by what our showroom will look like in just a few years from now.

Anyway, I have no problem calling out Ford when they **** up. I do think that Fusion should remain a bit longer than planned, and not including Focus Active was a mistake.....but these again are just opinions. WTF do I know? Ford clearly looks at the long game, where I don't, so there is that too.

meh, we are all just prognosticating here, I respect everyone's opinion who takes the time to share it, but I do have mine too.
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