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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-22-2018, 08:05 AM
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Re: Ford and VW?

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I think your list is missing the Tesla Model S, X and 3 with the Y that should launch by 2021.

2018, 2019, 2020, most likely the end of 2021. It will be at least 36 months before we see production of a Ford EV.

I did not forget them. I think that Tesla will not be in business by 2021.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-25-2018, 12:27 AM
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Re: Ford and VW?

Any BEV projection numbers by auto manufacturers will be seriously over-inflated if they are counting on T***a not being in business in 2021. I don't think manufacturers are going down that road. They have to hedge.
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-25-2018, 07:15 AM
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Re: Ford and VW?

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https://www.carscoops.com/2018/06/fo...oint-projects/


I wonder if they're going to bring said new types of vehicles with the help of Volkswagen?

I hope this also means if Ford tries out the Dual-Clutch transmission again, they will be supervised by Audi.
or maybe VW was really impressed with preview of what Ford has planned for Commercial vans and Pickups.
Is VW looking to outsource production to another manufacturer not unlike what GM did with Express van?

Thinking of commercial products outside of North America, those that are popular in Europe and rest of the world.

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-25-2018, 05:40 PM
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Re: Ford and VW?

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or maybe VW was really impressed with preview of what Ford has planned for Commercial vans and Pickups.
Is VW looking to outsource production to another manufacturer not unlike what GM did with Express van?

Thinking of commercial products outside of North America, those that are popular in Europe and rest of the world.
I think it will be more of VWs BEV platform/drivetrain and Ford's Van top hat. Right now Ford is not ready to enter the BEV van market in Europe that is heating up very quickly, especially with city after city banning diesel and next petrol. Europe has nice incentives for BEV vans as well. The postal service, UPS, DHL ,Fed-EX, etc all have BEV delivery vans in Europe and all went to third party BEV drivetrain/platform companies since the major automakers had NOTHING for them. Ford already has a leg up in the market with ICE vans but no BEV with all the competition coming at them. VW has the BEV drivetrain that Ford needs, and Ford has the market penetration that VW needs. This would be a win for both companies.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-25-2018, 08:37 PM
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Re: Ford and VW?

While I think cooperation between vehicles and platform in other segments is possible here I suspect the commercial vehicles aspect of this agreement is going to remain the primary focus here moving forward for various reasons. First, commercial customers are less likely to care if a Ford Transit and VW Transporter share a chassis than are people looking at a new Lincoln Aviator or VW Touareg. Further, commercial vans have specific platform needs that can and often do preclude easy sharing with other vehicles in your lineup. If you simply share an idealized platform with another manufacturer building a similar vehicle it still saves you money and, obviously, eliminates the need to compromise. That doesn't always work, but for reasons already listed above I don't think most of the more common issues are really a factor here. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Ford and VW move to a common, co-developed platform for large commercial vans moving forward where each manufacturer either uses their own engines exclusively within that shard platform or where each manufacturer contributes specific drivelines to the program which both manufacturers can share.



The other areas where I think cooperation makes a lot of sense are the Ford Ka replacement possibly using the VW NSF platform. The Ka really hasn't been 'right' since the first gen model, and I suspect NSF could allow Ford to get the car back to it's roots while saving money. I also think it possible that VW might be interested in piggy-backing some North American/Chinese market models on Ford platforms in the future as well.
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-25-2018, 10:13 PM
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Re: Ford and VW?

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While I think cooperation between vehicles and platform in other segments is possible here I suspect the commercial vehicles aspect of this agreement is going to remain the primary focus here moving forward for various reasons. First, commercial customers are less likely to care if a Ford Transit and VW Transporter share a chassis than are people looking at a new Lincoln Aviator or VW Touareg. Further, commercial vans have specific platform needs that can and often do preclude easy sharing with other vehicles in your lineup. If you simply share an idealized platform with another manufacturer building a similar vehicle it still saves you money and, obviously, eliminates the need to compromise. That doesn't always work, but for reasons already listed above I don't think most of the more common issues are really a factor here. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Ford and VW move to a common, co-developed platform for large commercial vans moving forward where each manufacturer either uses their own engines exclusively within that shard platform or where each manufacturer contributes specific drivelines to the program which both manufacturers can share.

The other areas where I think cooperation makes a lot of sense are the Ford Ka replacement possibly using the VW NSF platform. The Ka really hasn't been 'right' since the first gen model, and I suspect NSF could allow Ford to get the car back to it's roots while saving money. I also think it possible that VW might be interested in piggy-backing some North American/Chinese market models on Ford platforms in the future as well.
I think you may still be thinking of old school ICE platforms that go away with BEV technology. With BEVs there is a sled, that contains the battery pack and drivetrain/electric motors, and only a top hat with appropriate suspension needs to be added. It's a much simpler design/build process that VW/Ford have already made clear. VW is focused on the future of the delivery van which is a BEV, not the past.

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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-25-2018, 11:39 PM
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Re: Ford and VW?

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I think you may still be thinking of old school ICE platforms that go away with BEV technology. With BEVs there is a sled, that contains the battery pack and drivetrain/electric motors, and only a top hat with appropriate suspension needs to be added. It's a much simpler design/build process that VW/Ford have already made clear. VW is focused on the future of the delivery van which is a BEV, not the past.

I am thinking of ICE, and I am thinking of ICE because moving forward that is still going to be the dominant motivator for cars and trucks for the forseeable future. This deal could primarily have to do with BEV delivery vehicles as anything is possible, and I expect that BEV platforms will be an aspect of the deal, but I don't think it will be the majority of the deal by any means, at least not in the near future. I would also caution that BEV vehicle development is still heavily dependent upon government subsidization not merely for significant levels of success, but for it's mere survival. Were you to give the major automakers of the world a blank check to develop alternative fuel sources twenty years ago, without regulations favoring one source of another, BEV's would not have survived even this long. If one major automotive market, or even one major automakers, were to make the right moves with competitive alternative fuels it could be devastating to the BEV market. Some automakers are hedging their bets here for that very reason.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-26-2018, 05:25 PM
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Re: Ford and VW?

All-Electric MEB Platform to Drive New Firsts at VW

"The aggressive product plan includes a healthy slate of MEB-based vehicles for the Volkswagen marque, which is banking on BEVs as part of its post-Dieselgate image-rebuilding campaign. The first VW-badged MEB model, the A-segment-sized I.D. hatchback, will debut in Europe next year, followed by the ID Crozz, a small CUV that also will be sold in the U.S. beginning in 2020.

Coming after that is a battery-electric sedan (likely around 2021), followed by a CUV one size bigger than the Crozz. The I.D. Buzz, a modern interpretation of the VW Bus, is due in 2022, followed by additional derivatives and yet another MPV/CUV prior to 2025. Commercial vehicles based on the MEB platform also are in the cards.

VW predicts industry BEV sales to account for about 10% of the global market in 2025, with VW outpacing that share slightly. BEVs will control a much larger 35% of the global premium segment by then, the automaker says."
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-27-2018, 12:44 AM
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Re: Ford and VW?

That's interesting stuff, but it does nothing to disprove me theory. In fact, you could argue that it could just as easily support my theory as not. For example, if VW does think BEV's are the future they are still going to need to produce ICE powered vehicles for several years, well past the life cycle of any existing models to be sure. If you think that ICE technology is on the way out, would you want to foot the bill for continuing new product in that market all on your own knowing that sooner or later you would stop getting a return on the same?


Honestly, I don't actually think this is what is occurring here, I'm just making a point. This idea that everybody is abandoning ICE development in an effort to climb onboard the BEV train is blown out of proportion.
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