S650 already in planning for 2020 delivery? - Page 3 - Ford Inside News Community
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post #21 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 09:01 AM
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Re: S650 already in planning for 2020 delivery?

I guess when really thinking about about it with an all new chassis a decent weight loss is possible. Plus if they cut down on the overall length a little bit and maybe add a little to the wheelbase that would help too. I'm really eager to see what Ford does, eager to see new or updated engines under the hood too. We all know Ford has left a lot on the table when it comes to power with the Coyote and Ecoboost, and personally unless they add an Ecoboost V6 to mix as the mid level I'd say just drop the V6 altogether and just have the 2.3 as the base. Or offer the 2.3 in two different states of tune like 305hp for base and 350hp for mid.
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post #22 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 09:42 AM
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Re: S650 already in planning for 2020 delivery?

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Originally Posted by badhac View Post
I guess when really thinking about about it with an all new chassis a decent weight loss is possible. Plus if they cut down on the overall length a little bit and maybe add a little to the wheelbase that would help too. I'm really eager to see what Ford does, eager to see new or updated engines under the hood too. We all know Ford has left a lot on the table when it comes to power with the Coyote and Ecoboost, and personally unless they add an Ecoboost V6 to mix as the mid level I'd say just drop the V6 altogether and just have the 2.3 as the base. Or offer the 2.3 in two different states of tune like 305hp for base and 350hp for mid.

The Mustang needs to be ligther and smaller. Not too much smaller, but yes, a longer wheelbase with shorter overhangs will help to more spacious inside and more agile car.

There are a market for a 250 to 300 HP version. Mustang is a Pony car. A Pony car is a powerful, affordable coupe. The "affordable" part of the formula is the possibility of buy a 250-270 HP Mustang for 24K $. A naturaly aspired V6 is a cheap option for this kind of car. Even, a normally aspired 4 cyl or an ecoboost 3 cyl engine are options, too.
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post #23 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 10:33 AM
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Re: S650 already in planning for 2020 delivery?

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Originally Posted by badhac View Post
I guess when really thinking about about it with an all new chassis a decent weight loss is possible. Plus if they cut down on the overall length a little bit and maybe add a little to the wheelbase that would help too. I'm really eager to see what Ford does, eager to see new or updated engines under the hood too. We all know Ford has left a lot on the table when it comes to power with the Coyote and Ecoboost, and personally unless they add an Ecoboost V6 to mix as the mid level I'd say just drop the V6 altogether and just have the 2.3 as the base. Or offer the 2.3 in two different states of tune like 305hp for base and 350hp for mid.
Coyote really is a good motor that will easily become legendary as the years pass. How can anyone not love a high winding DOHC V8. We have also seen what it can do with voodoo. And the pending upgrades will improve all above coyote variants. I hope Ford continues to offer a V6, because it is still a good dependable motor, fun, efficient and quick. An upgraded V6 with a 10 speed automatic will be one heck of a good performance value. I am considering one myself. Sure, I love V8 engines, but with 2 teenagers under my insurance, hard to justify the extra cost. Anyone with teenage drivers at home, knows what I speak of.

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post #24 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 11:57 AM
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Re: S650 already in planning for 2020 delivery?

The Coyote is unquestionably a great engine, one that doesn't get it's due because it's two primary rivals have such a big displacement advantage. It'll be very interesting to see just how much extra power they can extract with direct injection and any other updates that'll come with the 'Stangs MCE.

The thing that's interesting about the Big3 engines is the Coyote is the smallest in displacement by a significant margin, and yet the largest in physical dimensions and no lighter either. If you told me 15 years ago OHV engines would evolve as well as they have I would have been shocked, completely, totally shocked! GM has done a spectacular job with old, simple tech!
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post #25 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 02:34 PM
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Re: S650 already in planning for 2020 delivery?

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The thing that's interesting about the Big3 engines is the Coyote is the smallest in displacement by a significant margin, and yet the largest in physical dimensions and no lighter either. If you told me 15 years ago OHV engines would evolve as well as they have I would have been shocked, completely, totally shocked! GM has done a spectacular job with old, simple tech!
Thats one of the reasons the LS motor swap is so popular, they are compact as ****, can fit in anything. Still though I would like to see the Coyote gain parts from the Voodoo, maybe the heads or intake at least.
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post #26 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 02:44 PM
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Re: S650 already in planning for 2020 delivery?

I am currently pricing and can build a carbureted 1971 340 cubic inch (5.6L) engine today that is very streetable, with high vacuum (~15in), with nothing more exotic than aluminum heads and intake, and very rugged and dependable and can manage 20mpg pretty easily….to the tune of 470hp. I have the recipe of parts and can share it. Torque is 450ftlbs. This is with no CAE or exotic tuning, other than a few hours of dyno time to dial it all in.

GM’s latest 6.2L that is CAE optimized to the nth degree, DI, etc. is at 455hp.

Both great engines.
If I had to hand out accolades, I don’t know if GM pushed the envelope as much as we are lead to believer. New 5.0L when it launches in a year with about 470hp, is more impressive. Torque should be around 435ftlbs. Very respectable for only 5.0L. Displacement adjusted, it would be over 580hp.

As for package space, they are about the same. 5.0L is actually shorter. Does not really matter, if there is room under the hood.

And yes, I recognize how emissions figures into this.
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Last edited by wingsnut; 03-08-2016 at 02:47 PM.
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post #27 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 03:07 PM
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Re: S650 already in planning for 2020 delivery?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingsnut View Post
I am currently pricing and can build a carbureted 1971 340 cubic inch (5.6L) engine today that is very streetable, with high vacuum (~15in), with nothing more exotic than aluminum heads and intake, and very rugged and dependable and can manage 20mpg pretty easily….to the tune of 470hp. I have the recipe of parts and can share it. Torque is 450ftlbs. This is with no CAE or exotic tuning, other than a few hours of dyno time to dial it all in.

GM’s latest 6.2L that is CAE optimized to the nth degree, DI, etc. is at 455hp.

Both great engines.
If I had to hand out accolades, I don’t know if GM pushed the envelope as much as we are lead to believer. New 5.0L when it launches in a year with about 470hp, is more impressive. Torque should be around 435ftlbs. Very respectable for only 5.0L. Displacement adjusted, it would be over 580hp.

As for package space, they are about the same. 5.0L is actually shorter. Does not really matter, if there is room under the hood.

And yes, I recognize how emissions figures into this.
I'd like to add that the Coyote weighs in less than the LT1.

And the Voodoo is even weighing in less than the Coyote.

So whoever said the Coyote is " no lighter " is factually incorrect.
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Last edited by FordCosworth; 03-08-2016 at 03:49 PM.
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post #28 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 03:15 PM
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Re: S650 already in planning for 2020 delivery?

Somewhat unrelated but possibly related to this next Mustang discussion: the original posting listed the D258 Taurus' end of production being extended from 2017 to 2023 or beyond... WTF? I thought the Taurus replacement was due later this year or early next year as a 2017 or 2018 model. Is Ford really giving a giant middle finger to fans of low cost large sedans and conceding the domestic market to GM and Mopar? Or are they changing lanes and possibly planning a Taurus replacement off the Mustang hardware?! [edit] I am aware of the Lincoln plans, was hoping for a new Taurus too.

Last edited by Unfairadvantage; 03-08-2016 at 03:17 PM.
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post #29 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 03:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: S650 already in planning for 2020 delivery?

Texas is awash in Chargers and I probably see 10-15 for every Taurus I notice on the street. I've only ever seen one SHO in town and we have ~110k people here.

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post #30 of 99 (permalink) Old 03-09-2016, 12:10 AM
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Re: S650 already in planning for 2020 delivery?

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Originally Posted by wingsnut View Post
With the coming flexible chassis and drivetrain, you can eliminate, for example, a mid size FWD and RWD and just offer both in one mid chassis.


In theory.
Do you know if 2017 Mustang will get the new 10-speed transmission? Ford can do so much tuning with that for all the different selectable driving modes.
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