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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-20-2012, 07:32 AM
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Re: a New MERCURY riddle/heresy

Sorry.....

.....but Mercury is DEAD for a GOOD reason. Why can't we let it stay DEAD.
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-20-2012, 05:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: a New MERCURY riddle/heresy

Quote:
Originally Posted by All-Or-Nothing View Post
Sorry.....

.....but Mercury is DEAD for a GOOD reason. Why can't we let it stay DEAD.
s'ok, A-O-N
we can agree to disagree.

It's just that some of us believe Mercury is worthwhile
(actually way more than merely 'worthwhile')
&
remember that Merc sold 438,000 as recently as 1999
&
thus know that Merc didn't "die", it was "murdered"
&
will never, ever give up wanting it Back!

.
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-20-2012, 06:28 PM
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Re: a New MERCURY riddle/heresy

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Originally Posted by 2b2 View Post
s'ok, A-O-N
we can agree to disagree.

It's just that some of us believe Mercury is worthwhile
(actually way more than merely 'worthwhile')
&
remember that Merc sold 438,000 as recently as 1999
&
thus know that Merc didn't "die", it was "murdered"
&
will never, ever give up wanting it Back!
We want justice!
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-20-2012, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: a New MERCURY riddle/heresy

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We want justice!

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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 12:29 AM
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Re: a New MERCURY riddle/heresy

After giving it some thought over time, I think the best fit for Mercury was and still is as a rwd sport sedan brand to counter the genuine luxury car approach of a well executed Lincoln division. Lexus has proven that trying to accomplish both ends with the same brand just isn't workable, and as Lincoln makes a lot more sense as a luxury brand given their history and image I think casting Mercury as a sporting, rwd brand to fend off the 1-Series, 3-Series, C-Class, and A-4's of this world makes a lot of sense. For a quick example of how the two brands could work together you could have.....

Mercury
1: Roughly E30-sized rwd sedan/hatchback as the entry-level Mercury offering (such a small platform could also easily lend itself to a Miata-esque sports car for Ford, Mercury, or both and a Capri revival to slot in below the next Mustang)
2: Roughly E46-sized rwd sedan as the mid-level Mercury offering (could easily be Mustang based)
3: Roughly E39 5-Series-sized rwd sedan as the largest, and top of the line Mercury offering (a stretched Mustang platform seems a natural here)

.....then Lincoln could offer......

Lincoln
1: A Focus based retractable hardtop fwd based model produced, primarily, for the ladies.
2: Fusion-based fwd based sedan as we have now with the MKZ (could we have real names gain please?)
3: lwb MKZ based fwd model on the wheelbase of the upcoming Taurus replacement
4: Convertible and coupe versions of the MKZ.
5: A new 'Continental' with rwd aluminum intensive platform to make use of all that money spent on R&D in the 90's, about the size of the lwb S Class sedan we get here in the US but lighter.
6: A long wheelbase Continental sedan, about the size of the Bentley Continental Flying Spur, yet again rwd.
7: A Continental coupe and convertible, once more rwd.

That only covers sedans, but the above two brands couldn't be more different if they tried. You have more coverage above than just about any current premium brand, but none of the confusion that comes with trying to cover every base, luxury and sport, under one moniker.

Heck, even the best model names from these brands fit these two basic outlines, it's like it was meant to be. For 1, 2, and 3 in the Mercury lineup you could break out names like Comet, Meteor, and Monterey; and if you decided to do a coupe version of number 3, you've always got Cougar waiting in the wings. For number 1 in the Lincoln lineup Cosmopolitan fairly screams 'pick me', and for 2, 3, and 4 Zephyr, Zephyr Executive, and Zephyr LSC are no brainers. And of course; Continental, Continental Executive, and Continental LSC are an easy slam dunk for 5, 6, and 7....the choices here are so obvious you almost don't have to put thought into it, I'm literally coming up with this as I type.

Even the history of these two brands is telling you where they naturally fit within the market, I think Ford should listen.

Just my two cents.
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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 02:32 AM Thread Starter
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Re: a New MERCURY riddle/heresy

^ maybe easy for YOU to say (or come up with), Syr
I had to Wiki those E##'s (never have kept them straight) then I got sidetracked trying&failing to find my old ovl info for the diff generations

THANKS for your input!! gave me some thinking to do...

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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 08:40 AM
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Re: a New MERCURY riddle/heresy

syr74,
I like your suggestions, but Ford could take your ideas for Mercury, and simply expand the Mustang line to include all of these for a lot smaller investment. The Mustang has a great reputation, and sorry to say, Mercury was allowed to regress too much before it was killed.

"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."
Sherlock Holmes
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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 10:10 AM
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Re: a New MERCURY riddle/heresy

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Originally Posted by Logans Run View Post
syr74,
I like your suggestions, but Ford could take your ideas for Mercury, and simply expand the Mustang line to include all of these for a lot smaller investment. The Mustang has a great reputation, and sorry to say, Mercury was allowed to regress too much before it was killed.
I thought about that too, and there is obviously an enormous amount of cred that comes with the Mustang name, but I personally don't agree with the notion that the Mercury name is too damaged to work in that regard, here's why. In the end, before Mercury was put down, I don't think the brand had a poor reputation so much as it had almost no reputation, the brands was all but invisible and, in another five years, I think that (sadly) most non enthusiasts will largely just remember that Mercury was here once, is gone now, but won't actually be able to tell you what they did when they were here. Going on that premise, in that regard using the Mercury name on a new lineup would be largely akin to starting a new brand with the only difference being that truly new brands start from absolute zero where Mercury starts from all but absolute zero but, as a bonus, gets a very small nudge from the fact that the enthusiast community remembers the cooler Mercury efforts from the now distant past.

Also, while I think there is some logic in the notion of the Mustang as a 'brand within a brand' which covers more than one car, I'm not sure I would want to see such a brand cover four door model along with the obvious two door model...it just feels like a bridge too far. In fact, I like the idea of the Mustang and Bronco nameplates covering more than one model, I'm just not sure how far from purity you can veer here and still remain in the 'good idea' category. It may well work and work very well, but it also feels like a very big gamble for the nameplate to me.

Still, good to know somebody else at least thinks that Mustang has serious potential as a sub brand that covers more than one car as well.
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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 07:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: a New MERCURY riddle/heresy

OY!
my head has been spinning since yesterday with too many vague ideas to post
so
for now
I'm gonna stick with the vehicle I personally WANT
the Focus-based Mercury, called ANYthing but Tracer - my personal preference is to use "Cortina"
(esp since even IF Lincoln eventually gets around to a C-car AND doesn't make it look like "C"rap, as in "C"concept;
the preliminary trims of the new Z make me think I wouldn't find a version I'd like anyway... + I don't really want a push-button-trannie
)
&
something else I'd cheerfully KILL for = that it'd have a "dual-back" hatch+trunklid like the Skoda Superb - something I thought would be a great differentiator for all Mercs

(wonder if just posting personal serious-wants would lead to a workable list of models?)
((Andrew,
if you see this, could you envision a Mercury to replace your LS?))


Quote:
Originally Posted by syr74 View Post
...I personally don't agree with the notion that the Mercury name is too damaged...
...I don't think the brand had a poor reputation so much as it had almost no reputation, the brands was all but invisible...
I'll never forget the excitement that was raised for Mercury
JUST by having Jill Wagner for 'our' spokesperson



&
re: the notion of the Mustang as a 'brand within a brand',
imho
there's enough "pent up desire" for a LincStang (sportsedan & coupe/cabrio)
to simply not look any further for expansion for the foreseeable future

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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 11:49 PM
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Re: a New MERCURY riddle/heresy

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2b2 View Post
I'll never forget the excitement that was raised for Mercury
JUST by having Jill Wagner for 'our' spokesperson
Ms. Wagner definitely brought some attention to the brand at the very end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2b2
re: the notion of the Mustang as a 'brand within a brand',
imho
there's enough "pent up desire" for a LincStang (sportsedan & coupe/cabrio)
to simply not look any further for expansion for the foreseeable future
Yeah, if there is a 'no brainer' for Lincoln right now a Mustang-based revival of the Lincoln Mk VII is it.
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