2020 MKZ/Continental - Page 3 - Ford Inside News Community
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post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingsnut View Post
Give up everything for seating position?
More like, gain everything except a bit more driving dynamics.

I tried going back to sedans, and I am now ready to jump right back to SUV's. Far more benefits. If I could afford it, the 600ft lb new Aviator would be my poison.
Haul people
Haul stuff
Haul boats
Haul ass


Oh, and yes, seating position is great, being able to see around all the other trucks and SUV's on the road.
....I have a truck for all the other stuff. Horses for courses. What will an Aviator tow? 6k lbs? Will it haul Sheetrock and mulch? I get the marketing. Everyone loves showing the idyllic could-bes, instead of the compromising realities. I’m not saying the Aviator GT isn’t a class leader, but I’d rather have a sedan and a truck, which is what I actually have, instead of fooling with one collection of compromises. And, not having a 6 seater means, awww shucks, I guess we’ll have to drive separately and I don’t have to listen to someone else’s shitty music.
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post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 01:00 PM
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Re: 2020 MKZ/Continental

To each his/her own! I prefer sedans; others prefer trucks. I get it. The very few moments when I need a truck, I rent one.

I just think that it's sad that Ford/Lincoln had to abandon a segment (I get it, a sinking segment but one far from dead despite emphatic declarations to the contrary) to the competition only because it could/would not engineer, design, execute and market for desirability. Ford was not losing money in that segment but they couldn't make enough to make their Wall Street handlers happy. Now that they finally have their engineering mojo (CD6) and design mojo (Aviator) back, it is sad that we'll never get to see the full range of what could be done with it. That's the downside of this thread.

Ford was once a world-class auto manufacturer. Now it's just trucks, trucks and more trucks. BTW, I truly hope I'm wrong.
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post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 06:35 AM
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Re: 2020 MKZ/Continental

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Originally Posted by mooseman View Post
....I have a truck for all the other stuff. Horses for courses. What will an Aviator tow? 6k lbs? Will it haul Sheetrock and mulch? I get the marketing. Everyone loves showing the idyllic could-bes, instead of the compromising realities. I’m not saying the Aviator GT isn’t a class leader, but I’d rather have a sedan and a truck, which is what I actually have, instead of fooling with one collection of compromises. And, not having a 6 seater means, awww shucks, I guess we’ll have to drive separately and I don’t have to listen to someone else’s shitty music.
Every 10 or 20 years when I need a lot of sheetrock, I just rent the Home Depot truck for dirt cheap. Real convenient too. I could leave my luxury SUV in the lot for a couple hours while I do it. Much cheaper than paying for the second vehicle all those years too

See, there is a tit for every tat. Bottom line, an SUV is an exceptional functional all purpose option for far more lifestyles, than a sedan. People are clearly realizing that, based on trends.

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post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 09:38 AM
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Re: 2020 MKZ/Continental

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingsnut View Post
Every 10 or 20 years when I need a lot of sheetrock, I just rent the Home Depot truck for dirt cheap. Real convenient too. I could leave my luxury SUV in the lot for a couple hours while I do it. Much cheaper than paying for the second vehicle all those years too

See, there is a tit for every tat. Bottom line, an SUV is an exceptional functional all purpose option for far more lifestyles, than a sedan. People are clearly realizing that, based on trends.
...sure, I understand your man card only gets punched once every 20 years, but some of us get it punched daily. To each "his" own.
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post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 06:50 PM
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Re: 2020 MKZ/Continental

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Originally Posted by mooseman View Post
...sure, I understand your man card only gets punched once every 20 years, but some of us get it punched daily. To each "his" own.
Hmm, let's see.....you call people who drive SUV's schmucks, and now you are waving your 'man card' around insulting anyone who does not drive truck?

LOL


Me thinks you have insecurity issues.


And speaking of me, I am 3 months into my kitchen/bath/foyer remodel, where I elected to do it all my self because I want it done right. That includes new plumbing, electrical, hand assembled (RTA) cabinets, floor abatement, new flooring, fixtures, on and on and on. How does that fit your description of me....malaka.

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post #26 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 10:13 AM
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Re: 2020 MKZ/Continental

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Originally Posted by wingsnut View Post
Hmm, let's see.....you call people who drive SUV's schmucks, and now you are waving your 'man card' around insulting anyone who does not drive truck?

LOL


Me thinks you have insecurity issues.


And speaking of me, I am 3 months into my kitchen/bath/foyer remodel, where I elected to do it all my self because I want it done right. That includes new plumbing, electrical, hand assembled (RTA) cabinets, floor abatement, new flooring, fixtures, on and on and on. How does that fit your description of me....malaka.

...you contradict yourself. You claim only having a need for a truck every 10-20 years and then say you'll just rent one, then you claim a remodel job. You picking up all the sub-flooring, plywood, studs, 10ft copper and/or pvc, 12-16ft trim base mold, trim, doors, sheetrock in your SUV or that one time you'll need to rent a truck?


Here's the thing, I actually grew up working for my contractor dad and did my own commercial and residential work over the years, and the reason people don't drive SUVs to worksites is that they are useless. So, Weekender Work Guy, go BS someone else with you garbage claims.

You can buy a nice sedan and a full size long bed truck for the price of an Aviator GT and you don't have to live with compromises. That's my point. Keep humping that chicken all you want, you aren't going to convince someone who has actually done and still does on a regular basis what you pretend to do on the weekends once every 20 years.
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post #27 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 06:13 PM
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Re: 2020 MKZ/Continental

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseman View Post
...you contradict yourself. You claim only having a need for a truck every 10-20 years and then say you'll just rent one, then you claim a remodel job. You picking up all the sub-flooring, plywood, studs, 10ft copper and/or pvc, 12-16ft trim base mold, trim, doors, sheetrock in your SUV or that one time you'll need to rent a truck?


Here's the thing, I actually grew up working for my contractor dad and did my own commercial and residential work over the years, and the reason people don't drive SUVs to worksites is that they are useless. So, Weekender Work Guy, go BS someone else with you garbage claims.

You can buy a nice sedan and a full size long bed truck for the price of an Aviator GT and you don't have to live with compromises. That's my point. Keep humping that chicken all you want, you aren't going to convince someone who has actually done and still does on a regular basis what you pretend to do on the weekends once every 20 years.
LOL,

Are we really bragging about frequency of projects and needing trucks. Yeah, no insecurity issues there.


FYI.....you don't need a truck to pick up vinyl flooring in boxes, paint, 12' trim pieces or 16' for that matter, 8' lumber, even doors and a gazillion things in between. Last I looked, pretty much every sedan sold has fold down seats, and so what if I have to drive about 5 miles with some lumber or trim sticking out. Did it many times before, will do it many times again. And in this case I did not need to borrow a truck for $24 to pick up 4x8 sheets, because I have a brother with a truck I borrow.

And the real point here is that, as I stated, most don't need two vehicles, when they can make do with a sedan and much better yet with a utility vehicle and borrow/rent when they need more which. Actually, I recall picking up 4x8 sheets and I have done it. That aside, this all started because you called people driving SUV's schmucks. LOL

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post #28 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 09:06 PM
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Re: 2020 MKZ/Continental

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingsnut View Post
Bottom line, an SUV is an exceptional functional all purpose option for far more lifestyles, than a sedan. People are clearly realizing that, based on trends.
SUVs/Crossovers have their market like sedans do.

Looking at trends for the US, Civic and Corolla were down -4% and up 1% at over 78k units each. While CR-V was up 6% and RAV4 was down -8% at 83k and 87k respectively. So for Honda they sold about 4k more 'compact' segment suv/crosover models than the sedan. While Toyota sold 9k more suv/crossovers than cars. With both cars and suv/crossovers being relatively flat and 'sharing' the segment.

Looking at midsize, Accord was up 5% while Camry was down -10%, but sales were 64k+ and 81k+, while their midsize suv/crossovers the Pilot was -13% at 33k and Highlander was down -.05 and 52k+.

So it looks like compact suv/crossovers are flat against sedans, while midsize suv/crossovers are well below sedans in that segment. Which could explain why Escape being down -10% hurts Ford more because there is no Focus in NA to counter those sales. And with Exploerer being down just -1% but sales about 62k, it's almost able to balance sales with Accord at 64k, not not close to Camry at 81k+, while Fusion set for cancellation continues to slide and offer no sales balance for Explorer.

So looking at the 'trends' cars are stabalizing and SUV/Crossovers are are falling or are flat. April should offer more of the same with cars gaining traction and the more expensive SUV/crossovers slipping partially due to many receiving much smaller tax refund checks than expected due to the new tax law that let them keep more and spend it early on.

Either way this does not look good for Ford's plan for a more expensive SUV/Crossover lineup, when consumers are beginning to look fore more practical and cost effective transportation. The $6k to $8k price hight between a sedan/5-door and a SUV/Crossover in the same segment is being noticed by consumers.

Oh wait...I forgot about Edge since it's midsize....it was too far down the sales charts. Down -5% at almost 31k. Compare that with midsize sedan sales from Accord and Camry, but even cancelled Fusion at 43k and down -3% is outselling Edge.
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post #29 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-09-2019, 10:15 PM
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Re: 2020 MKZ/Continental

Bloggin, your sales comparisons based on such a narrow window of time using Ford SUV's that have halted production months ago in preparation for all new......is pretty laughable. Especially as you completely ignore the massive margins one provides over the other. Stop already

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post #30 of 38 (permalink) Old 04-10-2019, 12:42 PM
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Re: 2020 MKZ/Continental

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloggin View Post
SUVs/Crossovers have their market like sedans do.

Looking at trends for the US, Civic and Corolla were down -4% and up 1% at over 78k units each. While CR-V was up 6% and RAV4 was down -8% at 83k and 87k respectively. So for Honda they sold about 4k more 'compact' segment suv/crosover models than the sedan. While Toyota sold 9k more suv/crossovers than cars. With both cars and suv/crossovers being relatively flat and 'sharing' the segment.

Looking at midsize, Accord was up 5% while Camry was down -10%, but sales were 64k+ and 81k+, while their midsize suv/crossovers the Pilot was -13% at 33k and Highlander was down -.05 and 52k+.

So it looks like compact suv/crossovers are flat against sedans, while midsize suv/crossovers are well below sedans in that segment. Which could explain why Escape being down -10% hurts Ford more because there is no Focus in NA to counter those sales. And with Exploerer being down just -1% but sales about 62k, it's almost able to balance sales with Accord at 64k, not not close to Camry at 81k+, while Fusion set for cancellation continues to slide and offer no sales balance for Explorer.

So looking at the 'trends' cars are stabalizing and SUV/Crossovers are are falling or are flat. April should offer more of the same with cars gaining traction and the more expensive SUV/crossovers slipping partially due to many receiving much smaller tax refund checks than expected due to the new tax law that let them keep more and spend it early on.

Either way this does not look good for Ford's plan for a more expensive SUV/Crossover lineup, when consumers are beginning to look fore more practical and cost effective transportation. The $6k to $8k price hight between a sedan/5-door and a SUV/Crossover in the same segment is being noticed by consumers.

Oh wait...I forgot about Edge since it's midsize....it was too far down the sales charts. Down -5% at almost 31k. Compare that with midsize sedan sales from Accord and Camry, but even cancelled Fusion at 43k and down -3% is outselling Edge.
Nothing in your argument address the issue of profitability. Ford says traditional cars aren't profitable for them. It doesn't matter how many they sell if the margins don't justify making them. Building crossovers like the new Escape that are more car-like but still offer the benefits of a utility vehicle is the correct move if it means profits. Too car-like for some? There's the Baby Bronco for those customers.

Whether I like it or not doesn't matter. Ford's not about making me happy, they're about making money.
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Last edited by HotRod; 04-12-2019 at 10:12 PM.
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