We have heard the “rumors” the fusion body will be discounted, and of a EV using a Mustang frame, so . . . OK.
We’ve also heard about how the Lincoln flag ship Continental and MKZ haven’t sold well. Umm ok. So why did it take my dealership almost a month to track down my 2017 3.0T AWD Black Label, and why have a never seen another, nor a Continental version on the street, yet I see the 2.0 and Hybrids everywhere, including the dealer lot.
So maybe, Lincoln should just stop making 2.0/2.0 hybrids 2WD MKZ/Continentals, and only put out Black Label high performance,(like 450-500+hp) with Intelligent AWD versions, and not just “luxury Fusions”?
Sure, there’s logistics of factory space, chassis supply etc. that I simply don’t have the data to argue, however who’s to say that Lincoln cannot do what Caddy has done, and mop the floor with them while doing it?
Whether Hackett will ever grow a pair and do it, maybe doubtful, but I can sure as **** say I would be ordering a >500 hp AWD MKZ, even if it is an EV, as soon as I could
I recall a statement that Lincoln was not getting out of sedans, and they only have 2...so, we'll see. I know various Mustang/CD6 derivate rumors getting louder in months ahead.
I'm convinced there is room in Lincoln's lineup for one white space model approximating a conventional sedan. In my head it's about 200" long, it's built on CD6 with the Aviator's powertrains, and it has a swoopy but practical liftback design. Think A7/S7 on a budget, but not bargain basement pricing. $55k sounds about right.
Lincoln made the investment in CD6 and wonderful longitudinal powertrains, they need to take advantage of them.
But people want to by the high performance versions. Ford loves to do there annoying: flood the market with the small engine/basic model, and make the high performance/luxury hard as **** for even dealers to find.
The 3.0T AWDs Black Labels blow everything thing in the under 100k Luxeey Sedan away. Performance, Intererior, soundsystem, benefits, service you name it. . . So why buy anything less, and moreover why make anything else
But people want to by the high performance versions. Ford loves to do there annoying: flood the market with the small engine/basic model, and make the high performance/luxury hard as **** for even dealers to find.
There is not enough volume in performance sales alone to justify the investment. I, like you, would love to see these types of cars from Lincoln, but it's just not realistic in the current market situation.
The 3.0T AWDs Black Labels blow everything thing in the under 100k Luxeey Sedan away. Performance, Intererior, soundsystem, benefits, service you name it. . . So why buy anything less, and moreover why make anything else
Nope, no way is that true. There are many sub-$100k premium sports sedans that are better products than the MKZ and Conti even with BL and the 3.0T. They're both really nice sedans, but I'd never spend my own money on either. Proper D6 based sedans could surely change my mind on that, but again, there just isn't enough volume to justify the investment.
I spent a day in a loaded Conti 3.0T AWD. On a smooth highway, it really shines with few contenders for the $$. But there are very few smooth highways in Metro Detroit, so every bump and pothole reminded me what the lower rent bones consisted of. I would take an A6 over Conti any day. I spend a lot of time driving one, and that chassis is far superior.
I'm impressed with what Lincoln managed to accomplish with the Continental given the limitations it started with. While I understand Ford/Lincoln's decision to step away from traditional sedans it sure would have been fun to see what they could have done with a proper platform!
Maybe Ford never should have bothered with the CD4 Continental and waited to try with a RWD CD6 Continental. But that probably would have flopped too. People with money just want to sit up high.
This is just me but, even if there was an $80K CD6 based all new Conti sitting next to the new Aviator (also CD6) costing maybe a bit more, my money is going to the Aviator.
I guess I am lucky. I have only had one flat tire...ever.
That was in 1985, and there was a pot hole right next to a railroad track, that was hidden by a puddle.
Luckily I had a hammer and a pump for my bicycle in the trunk, and I was able to bang it back into shape (good old 13" steel rims) and pump it up without even taking the wheel off.
I don't know, I love our CT6. Big crossovers just don't drive as well. Every time I pass some schmuck in an Escalade, I smile wryly. We average about 60mpg in our plugin, and the thing still does 0-60 in 5 seconds and 104 qtr, with a limousine sized back seat...and it handles well. I just don't get the give up everything for seating position mentality. If Ford made a CD6 Aviator GT as a sedan, I'd trade the 6 in a heartbeat. I just don't need 3 rows of room.
Give up everything for seating position?
More like, gain everything except a bit more driving dynamics.
I tried going back to sedans, and I am now ready to jump right back to SUV's. Far more benefits. If I could afford it, the 600ft lb new Aviator would be my poison.
Haul people
Haul stuff
Haul boats
Haul ass
Oh, and yes, seating position is great, being able to see around all the other trucks and SUV's on the road.
....I have a truck for all the other stuff. Horses for courses. What will an Aviator tow? 6k lbs? Will it haul Sheetrock and mulch? I get the marketing. Everyone loves showing the idyllic could-bes, instead of the compromising realities. I’m not saying the Aviator GT isn’t a class leader, but I’d rather have a sedan and a truck, which is what I actually have, instead of fooling with one collection of compromises. And, not having a 6 seater means, awww shucks, I guess we’ll have to drive separately and I don’t have to listen to someone else’s ****ty music.
To each his/her own! I prefer sedans; others prefer trucks. I get it. The very few moments when I need a truck, I rent one.
I just think that it's sad that Ford/Lincoln had to abandon a segment (I get it, a sinking segment but one far from dead despite emphatic declarations to the contrary) to the competition only because it could/would not engineer, design, execute and market for desirability. Ford was not losing money in that segment but they couldn't make enough to make their Wall Street handlers happy. Now that they finally have their engineering mojo (CD6) and design mojo (Aviator) back, it is sad that we'll never get to see the full range of what could be done with it. That's the downside of this thread.
Ford was once a world-class auto manufacturer. Now it's just trucks, trucks and more trucks. BTW, I truly hope I'm wrong.
Bloggin, your sales comparisons based on such a narrow window of time using Ford SUV's that have halted production months ago in preparation for all new......is pretty laughable. Especially as you completely ignore the massive margins one provides over the other. Stop already
The debut of Lincoln's new Corsair compact SUV at the New York auto show leaves the company's MKZ sedan (pictured above) as the last car in its lineup that hasn't yet replaced its alphanumeric moniker with an actual name (well, other than the ancient Ford Flex–based MKT crossover, which is technically still part of the lineup). Based on a trademark we found, we think that the MKZ's eventual replacement may revive the Zephyr name, which has roots in both Lincoln's ancient and recent history.
While Lincoln representatives wouldn't comment on the future of the MKZ or the possibility of using the Zephyr name, the fact that this trademark was filed anew in 2016 rather than being renewed from the company's earlier trademark suggests to us that Lincoln plans to use it in the near future. Originally applied to Lincoln vehicles in the 1930s and 1940s, the Zephyr name was also briefly applied to a Ford Fusion–based Lincoln sedan in the mid-2000s before that model switched to its current MKZ nameplate.
It's possible that the new Zephyr will signify a philosophical shift along with its name change. Because the Ford Fusion on which the current MKZ is based will be ending production in the near future, we suspect (and hope) that Lincoln will forge its own path with the next generation of this sedan. We've heard rumors that it may even make the switch to Ford's rear-wheel-drive unibody architecture that's found underneath the current Ford Explorer and Lincoln Aviator SUVs and will likely underpin the next Ford Mustang. This would necessitate a manufacturing shift for the Lincoln sedan, which makes sense given that company has already announced that it will move production of the Transit Connect van, starting in 2021, to the Hermosillo, Mexico, plant that current builds the Fusion and MKZ. Lincoln currently builds the larger Continental sedan at its plant in Flat Rock, Michigan, which the company has also announced will build its next-generation Mustang.
The timing of these manufacturing moves may give us some indication of when we might hear more about the possible Lincoln Zephyr sedan. If we were to guess, we think Lincoln may show a concept version of the Zephyr at some point in 2020 before the production car arrives sometime in 2020. In the meantime, all we have to go on is our own wishful thinking.
So in the private Everything Lincoln group on Facebook someone posted pics of the Coach Door Continental. They made a few changes.
1. The 3rd window is an actual window now instead of filled in
2. The rear doors don't butterfly up
3. They added a black piece behind the B-Pillar
4. They changed the handles they no longer meet in the middle.
Thanks for posting my pics, I had issues posting the pics here and gave up!
I since realized the production rear door also has a straighter vertical line at the rear, so more changes there too.
BTW Rolls Royce also uses a center B pillar trim piece as well, and actually it makes it looks a bit more finished now.
Speaking with the Lincoln staff, it sounds like for 2020 they might offer it with the standard 3 person rear seat, removing the unique full console. Maybe that deletion and the removal of the “80th Anniversary” name might allow them to drop the price too?
I hope not! A refresh of a model that was intended to be a placeholder? Please, no. Only a real CD6 Continental will do, IMO. Up to now, Ford is resisting that idea so I expect the placeholder to die a slow death even as a few coach-door entries apply mouth-to-mouth.
I'd like the Zephyr and Continental to go forward, with rwd/awd and with different missions:
The Zephyr should be, as mentioned by others, slightly smaller and maybe with more obvious sport sedan potential.
The Continental should define quiet, luxurious excellence...with drivetrains that move the car with smooth torque that reminds some of us of the ol' 460 Lincolns. However, it should also handle well enough to surprise the S-Class/7 Series/A8 driver.
Very curious why they changed the design of the door handles. I prefer the clean look of the prototype MUCH more.
Maybe this is all to get it ready for a higher volume production cycle? I doubt this one will be mass produced, but maybe it's a preview of what's to come on a (hopefully) all new Continental.
I suspect it was a cost issue, since they now use the same production door handle as regular Continentals.
If you look at the new design, with the now thicker B pillar, they did space the rear handle out to match where it lines up to the window as the front door. I guess they could have modified the concept handles as well to space out like this.
Overall it really looks like the entire B pillar is thicker (at least compared to the prototype) which I imagine is in the name of safety.
The NY display model was noted as "00 of 80" and the rep mentioned it wont count against the true 80 being built and sold to the public. I wonder if this will be crushed or used internally?
That's not what I wrote and you know it. You are quite the spinmaster. My own words now; only Ford is suffering from bad sedan sales enough that they had to announce that they will stop making sedans.
So much drama, you'd think it was filled with a bunch of housewives! We need 2b2 to come back home.
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