what the heck is SkyActive? (HCCI/hyper/EV updates) - Page 4 - Ford Inside News Community
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post #31 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-02-2018, 09:28 PM
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Re: what the heck is SkyActive? (HCCI/hyper/EV updates)

I have heard this myth several times, that once some brands got out from under Ford, they stretched their wings. As if Ford was some tech blocker. Actually, from my perspective, Ford was the one who was freed up once they shed heavy baggage like Mazda and Jag and the like.

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post #32 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-03-2018, 03:27 PM
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Re: what the heck is SkyActive? (HCCI/hyper/EV updates)

Regardless the case regarding Ford/Mazda culture, they did some great stuff together. I think that Mazda does benefit from the "agility" that comes from independence, and shedding the other brands allowed FoMoCo to concentrate on Fords (and, to an extent, Lincoln).

I just wish Mazda didn't seem to build a 6-foot height max into their cars....
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If GM can justify Buick, and if Honda can justify Acura, we can damned well have Mercury back.
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post #33 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-03-2018, 03:41 PM
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Re: what the heck is SkyActive? (HCCI/hyper/EV updates)

Ford simply under-invested in their PAG devisions and tried to force shared platforms and technology despite the reality that Ford had very different priorities than their luxury brands. It was fundamentally impossible to turn around those businesses with a mass-market foundation. They just couldn't make it work and the products that resulted from that relationship were very few and very poor, the X-Type is perhaps the greatest example of how monumentally dysfunctional that relationship was. It also doesn't help that Ford's buying spree was a symptom of a misguided company that would be nearing bankruptcy by the end of it.

And there is no question the PAG brands failed to thrive under Ford but found their wings under the freedom of smarter investors. But it's also easy to forget that Ford bought those PAG brands when they were already struggling.

Although the PAG brands have long since passed Lincoln when it use to be the opposite, Ford has learned allot by how those brands thrived on their own and have applied some of that administrative thinking to finally help Lincoln be more independent. As badly as Ford has messed up their luxury efforts, at least they are persistent and slowly learning from their own mistakes.

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post #34 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-03-2018, 08:21 PM
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Re: what the heck is SkyActive? (HCCI/hyper/EV updates)

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Regardless the case regarding Ford/Mazda culture, they did some great stuff together. I think that Mazda does benefit from the "agility" that comes from independence, and shedding the other brands allowed FoMoCo to concentrate on Fords (and, to an extent, Lincoln).
Of course they did some good together, far more good than bad, contrary to some repeated diatribes, which was my only point.

A specific case in point regarding just powertrains, Ford had been tied to the long ago co-developed I4 Mazda engine family. For years we would develop from relatively large bore spacing that was linked to manufacturing/ tooling and worst yet was DAMB valvetrain (direct acting mechanical bucket) which is inferior in every way to RFF, which began proliferating back into Ford engines once again years ago, but only recently showing up. I was heavily involved with development of the 2.5/3.0L V6 engine in early 90's (one of my first tasks at Ford) which used a great RFF valvetrain in a compact design. Ford has been switching back for all engines to RFF, beginning with nano development.

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post #35 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-03-2018, 09:14 PM
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Re: what the heck is SkyActive? (HCCI/hyper/EV updates)

Weren't the Duatec V6 engine designs purchased from Porsche and developed with Cosworth for the 1993 Mondeo. How much of this engine was actualy Dearborn designed?

Duratec were great performers but notorious for their short lives.

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post #36 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-03-2018, 09:49 PM
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Re: what the heck is SkyActive? (HCCI/hyper/EV updates)

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Weren't the Duatec V6 engine designs purchased from Porsche and developed with Cosworth for the 1993 Mondeo. How much of this engine was actualy Dearborn designed?

Duratec were great performers but notorious for their short lives.
History is correct but not the short life part, the Duratecs in the 90s Tauruses were pretty **** reliable I remember reading about members who had 200 even 300k miles on their Duratec Taurus and Sables.

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post #37 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-03-2018, 09:58 PM
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Re: what the heck is SkyActive? (HCCI/hyper/EV updates)

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History is correct but not the short life part, the Duratecs in the 90s Tauruses were pretty **** reliable I remember reading about members who had 200 even 300k miles on their Duratec Taurus and Sables.
I remember that being the case for the iron block engines with less valves, definitely not the Duratecs.
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post #38 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-03-2018, 11:03 PM
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Re: what the heck is SkyActive? (HCCI/hyper/EV updates)

Plenty of Porsche engineering is what you hear, which basically meant we purchased their design of a similar 60 deg engine and adapted it into the then new 2.5/3.0L family. It's not like a bunch of Germans were sharing our cafeteria in Dearborn overseeing us Americans who worked for years on the all new designs. Seemed like an intriguing idea at the time, but later proved to be equally problematic. We also sub contracted Cosworth for their innovative casting process for block and heads. Much was learned by Ford, regardless.


Both engines shared most parts, differentiated only by bore size. You only hear about durability issues with 3.0L, because Ford put far more of them on the road with Taurus/Sable and Escape/Mariner than they did Contour/Mystique 2.5L. Piston slap and bore wear wear early problems and later corrected, but even today you see many old Taurus 3.0L with well over 200K miles. I had a Contour and several Tauruses and they were among my most dependable cars ever.
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post #39 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-03-2018, 11:34 PM
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Re: what the heck is SkyActive? (HCCI/hyper/EV updates)

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I remember that being the case for the iron block engines with less valves, definitely not the Duratecs.
There was constant bickering on the TCCA over which engine was better the 3.0 Vulcan or the 3.0 Duratec in terms of reliability. In terms of simplicity the Vulcan won since it was a push rod design. But both were very reliable, as I said there were plenty of members who were able to make it that high on both motors. My Sable had 140k all original minus the spark plugs and wires on my Duratec it was also one of the main reasons I went with the 3.0 vs the 3.9 on the LS when I upgraded the 3.0 was far more reliable than the 3.9 Jaguar based engine. The weak point on the Tauruses and Sables during those years was the transmission but not the engines.
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post #40 of 44 (permalink) Old 04-04-2018, 12:52 PM
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Re: what the heck is SkyActive? (HCCI/hyper/EV updates)

Actually, at least in Michigan, the biggest issue with those cars were rust, I know my '96 completely rotted out in a couple of years after it hit 100,000 miles. It's one of those vehicles in which the mechanicals way outlived the body. I'm not sure why Ford had such a hard time nailing rust in the 80's and 90s, they seemed to fix it by the 2000s. One of the longest lived Fords I've seen recently is the original Escape and Focus (despite their initial problems). Those I4s run forever and the bodies were relatively slow to rust out, especially the Escape.
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