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Bloggin 05-29-2018 05:17 PM

Ford Set Up JLR for Success Before 2008 Sale
 
Ford Set Up JLR for Success Before 2008 Sale
https://images.autotrader.com/scaler...018/271928.jpg
Richard Truett | Autonews

Like nearly all automotive success stories, Jaguar Land Rover's resurgence is rooted in engineering and design. Ford Motor Co. also deserves some credit, even though the auto giant wasn't able to finish its plans for the luxury brands before more pressing problems forced a sale during the recession.

The newly formed JLR under Tata Motors ownership was cash-poor in the summer of 2008, but it also was motivated.

After being spit out of British Leyland and passing through numerous corporate owners over the years, neither Jaguar nor Land Rover had an engineering staff capable of designing a complete vehicle from the wheels up, powertrain included. But both brands together did.

"Both the size and scale of the companies were good, though not big enough to survive on their own," recalled Bob Joyce, a former JLR product development chief. "But when you combined them, they had a lot of synergies and not a lot of overlap. When Land Rover came out of BMW, they had 1,200 engineers. Jaguar had about 1,000. Land Rover had some diesel engine knowledge, but very little petrol engine experience, whereas Jaguar had protected its petrol engine experience.

"Land Rover had body engineering experience that came out of the Rover Group. So, you added it up together and it came to a considerable group of engineers."

Current and former JLR executives agree Ford did considerable work to set up JLR for success. One example: In the 1990s, Ford began developing a production system for lightweight aluminum bodies. In 1993, Ford built 40 Mercury Sable sedans with riveted and bonded aluminum panels, saving 400 pounds over the steel version. Though the production method was too expensive for Ford's high-volume mainstream vehicles, it was a perfect fit for Jaguar.

Ford planners believed Jaguar would have trouble meeting strict European carbon dioxide standards in the coming years with its heavy steel-bodied cars. In 2003, Jaguar launched its first aluminum-bodied car, the XJ, using a version of Ford's production system.

A decade later, the Range Rover moved to an aluminum body, using a modified version of the production system Ford developed. Ironically, Ford finally did use its system on the aluminum-bodied 2015 F-150.

Two more pieces of JLR's puzzle were Ian Callum, Jaguar's head of design, and Gerry McGovern, Land Rover's design boss. Both possessed a lifetime passion for their brands and were now free to express it in metal.

After the embarrassing failures of the Ford-based Jaguar X-Type and S-Type and after Land Rover fought off attempts to create Land Rover versions of the Ford Escape and Explorer, Jaguar and Land Rover were starting to get more freedom.

With the XF sedan, launched in the closing days of the Ford era, Callum finally shed Jaguar's retro design language that dated all the way back to the mid-1960s.

The 2008 LRX concept, started under Ford, was one of the first vehicles approved for production under Tata. It became the Range Rover Evoque and has been a monster success, with more than 730,000 units sold since its 2012 debut.

2b2 05-29-2018 07:14 PM

Re: Ford Set Up JLR for Success Before 2008 Sale
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Autonews (Post 399994)
"...Land Rover fought off attempts to create Land Rover versions of the Ford Escape and Explorer, Jaguar and Land Rover were starting to get more freedom...

...The 2008 LRX concept, started under Ford, was one of the first vehicles approved for production under Tata. It became the Range Rover Evoque and has been a monster success, with more than 730,000 units sold since its 2012 debut."

I thought the Evoque was based on the Escape's C-platform since they're so close in size
178.1 - 105.9 -72.4? - 66.3 - Escape
171.9 - 104.7 -74\77- 64.4 - Range Rover Evoque
171.7 - 104.3 - 71.8 - 58.4 - Focus hatch

but

wiki: Ford_EUCD_platform
"...After separation from Ford, Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) continued to develop the EUCD platform; deriving the heavily modified LR-MS/JLR D8 platforms from it. Variations of the D8 are used for the 2011 Range Rover Evoque, the 2015 Land Rover Discovery Sport and the 2017 Jaguar E-Pace..."

also never knew...
google:
"When BMW bought the Rover group in 1994, they split Land Rover from Rover, then sold Land Rover to Ford in 2000. They remained different companies until Ford bought Range Rover in 2006. Now they're both part of Jaguar Land Rover, which is owned by Tata motors..."
.

wingsnut 05-29-2018 08:03 PM

Re: Ford Set Up JLR for Success Before 2008 Sale
 
Rooted in Engineering and Design.

I have said this many times in the past.

glyphics 05-30-2018 12:21 AM

Re: Ford Set Up JLR for Success Before 2008 Sale
 
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that the DEW98 was a Jaguar initiative that was funded by Ford. Why else would Ford reject it as too expensive and dumb it down by replacing the 4-link front suspension with cheaper struts and the 5-link rear with a solid Hotchkiss? The DEW98 wasn't a bad platform since Jag used it to good effect for the XF but Ford never warmed up to the Lincoln LS and didn't fund further development. When LS sales tanked, they blamed the car. Sound familiar?

I have no beef with Ford engineering but management keeps giving them red lights. Let's be clear, the car guys at Ford did a lot for Jaguar and Land Rover but Ford management would never have allowed the kind of investment and management freedom that brought JLR to its current status. Same can be said for Volvo. Ford has been too busy for decades trying to send the right signals to their Wall Street overseers (see, the painfully late implementation of the aluminum production system) to keep their eyes on the prize; product. Their reward? Wall Street treats Ford like dirt.

Without the Mustang and the F-150 - great products - where would Ford be?

wingsnut 05-30-2018 06:49 AM

Re: Ford Set Up JLR for Success Before 2008 Sale
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by glyphics (Post 400114)
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that the DEW98 was a Jaguar initiative that was funded by Ford. Why else would Ford reject it as too expensive and dumb it down by replacing the 4-link front suspension with cheaper struts and the 5-link rear with a solid Hotchkiss? The DEW98 wasn't a bad platform since Jag used it to good effect for the XF but Ford never warmed up to the Lincoln LS and didn't fund further development. When LS sales tanked, they blamed the car. Sound familiar?

I have no beef with Ford engineering but management keeps giving them red lights. Let's be clear, the car guys at Ford did a lot for Jaguar and Land Rover but Ford management would never have allowed the kind of investment and management freedom that brought JLR to its current status. Same can be said for Volvo. Ford has been too busy for decades trying to send the right signals to their Wall Street overseers (see, the painfully late implementation of the aluminum production system) to keep their eyes on the prize; product. Their reward? Wall Street treats Ford like dirt.

Without the Mustang and the F-150 - great products - where would Ford be?

So you blame LS sales on Ford changing the suspension?


And Ford has had many hits through the years, Taurus, Contour, Expedition, Explorer, Edge, Escape, Fusion, SD, Econoline, Focus....long list in fact.

ZanatWork 05-30-2018 12:53 PM

Re: Ford Set Up JLR for Success Before 2008 Sale
 
The DEW98 mess was a leftover of the nightmare era that came from Trotman and Nasser. I was among the many that wondered why Ford seemed to have both thumbs up its nether region, letting the CV, Taurus, and Mustang rot while shoveling money at the PAG brands that had questionable profit histories at best. The DEW98 platform was a major bone of contention, because it was under-utilized while still being under a slew of amazing concept cars that Ford teased...but never produced.

That platform is one reason why so many Ford-o-philes in the USA are leery as **** about the company's RWD efforts: the Aussies had fun Falcon derivatives, but the Mustang stayed on long-obsolete Fairmont bones until it got a dumbed-down version of the DEW98 chassis...the T-Bird on that platform was structurally Silly Putty and half-assed...and the Lincoln LS was unreliable and mid-pack at its best.

With the (admittedly overhyped) "death of the car" and the still-nebulous CD6 information, we're going to be twitchy until something concrete helps us to forget the grand f***-ups of yesteryear.

glyphics 05-30-2018 04:17 PM

Re: Ford Set Up JLR for Success Before 2008 Sale
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wingsnut (Post 400130)
So you blame LS sales on Ford changing the suspension?

C'mon Wings. Your skin is so thin that you can't read. You and I know that the Lincoln LS was discontinued before Ford decided to hack the DEW98. Please!

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingsnut (Post 400130)
And Ford has had many hits through the years, Taurus, Contour, Expedition, Explorer, Edge, Escape, Fusion, SD, Econoline, Focus....long list in fact.

A hit yesterday is a hit today IF you fund development enough to keep up with or lead the competition. Ford's hits are like baseball pop-ups. Off the bat it's up, up & up then it's down, down & down. F-150 is saving the company and Mustang is a hit. Almost everything else (for example, all of the cars they are cancelling) is a fly ball to center field.

ZanatWork 05-30-2018 05:47 PM

Re: Ford Set Up JLR for Success Before 2008 Sale
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by glyphics (Post 400170)
C'mon Wings. Your skin is so thin that you can't read. You and I know that the Lincoln LS was discontinued before Ford decided to hack the DEW98. Please!



A hit yesterday is a hit today IF you fund development enough to keep up with or lead the competition. Ford's hits are like baseball pop-ups. Off the bat it's up, up & up then it's down, down & down. F-150 is saving the company and Mustang is a hit. Almost everything else (for example, all of the cars they are cancelling) is a fly ball to center field.


Wildly overstated. The Fusion had very good years, and the Focus/Fiesta did good things despite the DCT fiasco. Right now, by your logic, essentially every mid-size sedan is a pop fly as trends move strongly toward CUVs. Nissan is cutting production by 20%, and the Altima is a big reason why.

Ford is part of a market that is undergoing a massive transition...that's pretty well known right now.

wingsnut 05-30-2018 08:45 PM

Re: Ford Set Up JLR for Success Before 2008 Sale
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by glyphics (Post 400170)
C'mon Wings. Your skin is so thin that you can't read. You and I know that the Lincoln LS was discontinued before Ford decided to hack the DEW98. Please!



A hit yesterday is a hit today IF you fund development enough to keep up with or lead the competition. Ford's hits are like baseball pop-ups. Off the bat it's up, up & up then it's down, down & down. F-150 is saving the company and Mustang is a hit. Almost everything else (for example, all of the cars they are cancelling) is a fly ball to center field.

You generalized your reasoning for LS failing, so I generalized my question back to you. Does that really denote thin skin to you? There is far more involved than what you believe, and that would have been my retort back, had you not just assumed I was throwing a bitch fit.


As for your claim of only having Mustang and F150, I could not disagree more there as well. Plenty of major hits, in fact, most vehicles Ford sells does so in much bigger volumes than Mustang.

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