Global: First in (Electro-)Ecology? ...in regulations? - Ford Inside News Community
 46Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 70 (permalink) Old 06-22-2017, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
2b2
Mercury C557
 
2b2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: N NW of Atlantis (Reno)
Posts: 22,734
Blog Entries: 6
Global: First in (Electro-)Ecology? ...in regulations?

Automotive Industry Annoyed China Gets to Decide What Engines It Offers
TTAC
- By Matt Posky on June 20, 2017


With the possible exception of the United States in the near future, emission regulations are getting harsher everywhere. Nowhere is that more true than China. Not only does Asia’s most populous country have some of the most stringent emission requirements for new cars, it also has the strictest sales quotas for electrically powered vehicles on the planet. Too strict, according to some automakers.

A Chinese draft regulation issued last week stipulates automakers must sell enough electric or plug-in hybrid vehicles to comprise 8 percent of total volume by 2018, 10 percent by 2019, and 12 percent by 2020. This comes after talks between Chinese Premier Li Keqiang and German Chancellor Angela Merkel that hinted China might have mercy on Germany manufacturers.

While Volkswagen has pleaded for China to reconsider the timeline, it has specified that it would adhere to the 2018 standards if forced to do so. Meanwhile, BMW flat-out said it couldn’t.

“Just like all the others, we were below 6 percent last year, and I mean significantly below,” BMW China chief Olaf Kastner told Automotive News China in the country where the carmaker has a joint venture with Brilliance China Automotive Holdings.

However, it’s not just German automakers that should be concerned. Most major manufacturers are trying to establish strong global sales while targeting China as a part of that endeavor. But the rules are different in China. Not only do companies have to get into bed with a Chinese firm just to do business inside the country, the stiff regulations are shaping the type of cars they can sell. The only way to stop this from influencing the sort of vehicles automakers sell worldwide is to have region-specific models, abandon the Chinese market, or play ball and offer more BEVs or plug-ins immediately.

According to Reuters, the most recent legislative draft by China’s Ministry of Industry and Information Technology is open for public comment until June 27. German Chancellor Angela Merkel announced at the start of the month that China had agreed to concessions on the timeline of quotas, but the most current draft does not reflect that. It’s unchanged from one issued in September, with no alterations relating to the proposed Merkel rescheduling.

Dominik Declercq, China’s representative for the European Automobile Manufacturers Association, said the new draft indicated China definitely had not changed its mind on the issue. “That’s what it looks like: no compromise, no concession,” Declercq explained.

- - - - - -

China upholds strict electric car sales quotas despite industry protests
Reuters
-Technology News | Tue Jun 13, 2017 | By Michael Martina and Norihiko Shirouzu | BEIJING


China upheld strict sales quotas for electrically powered vehicles in a draft regulation issued on Tuesday, ignoring concessions agreed between Chinese Premier Li Keqiang and German Chancellor Angela Merkel earlier this month.

The draft, posted on the website of the Legislative Affairs Office for China's cabinet, maintains that automakers must sell enough electric or plug-in hybrid vehicles to generate "credits" equivalent to 8 percent of sales by 2018, 10 percent by 2019 and 12 percent by 2020 - criteria many in the industry deem too ambitious.

The number of credits per car is based on the level of electrification.

Merkel and Li did not give specifics on June 1 when stating that China would make concessions on the quotas, but industry sources told Reuters the two leaders had agreed to delay the 8 percent requirement to 2019 and allow automakers that missed the quota in early years to make up for it later on.

The latest draft by China's Ministry of Industry and Information Technology, open for public comment until June 27, is largely unchanged from one issued in September, with no change to the timings.

Dominik Declercq, China representative for the European Automobile Manufacturers Association, said the new draft indicated China had not changed its stance on the policy.

"That's what it looks like: no compromise, no concession," Declercq told Reuters.

German Ambassador to China Michael Clauss said: "It seems that the political leadership has understood that this is a problem but there seems to be a disconnect between them and the working level at MIIT."

China has been pushing to get more electric vehicles on its roads as soon as possible in order to fight urban air pollution but automakers and industry bodies have said the targets are too tough, while German policymakers say they fear they are part of a Chinese strategy to help domestic carmakers overtake global rivals in developing 'green' vehicles.

The quotas would come on top of stricter fuel economy requirements that are set to gradually become among the world's toughest by 2020.

The quota proposals had met with requests by carmakers such as Volkswagen AG (VOWG_p.DE) to be given more time to meet them, although VW's management has said it is prepared to comply with the 2018 quota if the government insisted.
.

.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by 2b2; 06-29-2017 at 06:12 PM.
2b2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 70 (permalink) Old 06-22-2017, 10:41 PM
FIN Staff Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 7,876
Re: Global: First in Ecology? ...in regulations?



Well, China does have an emergency situation happening with air quality. But maybe they also need to deal with their foundries.... Don't think they can even use solar at this point.

2b2 likes this.
Bloggin is offline  
post #3 of 70 (permalink) Old 06-22-2017, 10:58 PM
FIN Staff Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 7,876
Re: Global: First in Ecology? ...in regulations?

At 8%, Ford needs to sell over 7,000 plug-in hybrid or EVs monthly in China starting Jan 2018.

And in China, Ford does not get to use any of that vague 'electrified vehicle' terminology. It must be a plug-in hybrid or full EV.

So what's Ford gonna do....they have a 2025 plan, but what about 2018, 2019 and 2020?

"The Mondeo Energi brings the benefits of electrification without range limitations, easily adapting to customers’ lifestyles while saving fuel and reducing emissions. It will feature an electric drive range of up to 50 kilometers(31 EV miles), fast torque on demand, smooth acceleration and a quiet operation."

Ford is stuffing a larger battery pack OR more powerful battery cells in the China Mondeo Energi to meet requirements for incentives for 2018.

Wow...bet they wished the had offered the Escape Energi and Focus Energi years ago when Alan was in charge. Along with the MKZ Energi. Maybe China will finally get a New Taurus Energi, along with a Continental Energi, they both have huge trunks. It's the same tech as in the Mondeo Energi. I still don't see why Taurus and Continental especially for China did not come with an Energi model.
2b2 likes this.
Bloggin is offline  
 
post #4 of 70 (permalink) Old 06-22-2017, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
2b2
Mercury C557
 
2b2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: N NW of Atlantis (Reno)
Posts: 22,734
Blog Entries: 6
Re: Global: First in Ecology? ...in regulations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloggin View Post
...Wow...bet they wished the had offered the Escape Energi and Focus Energi years ago when Alan was in charge. Along with the MKZ Energi. Maybe China will finally get a New Taurus Energi, along with a Continental Energi, they both have huge trunks. It's the same tech as in the Mondeo Energi. I still don't see why Taurus and Continental especially for China did not come with an Energi model.
schadenfreude = delicious, hot or cold
Bloggin likes this.

.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2b2 is offline  
post #5 of 70 (permalink) Old 06-22-2017, 11:18 PM
Ford Kuga
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,812
Re: Global: First in Ecology? ...in regulations?

Ford could have offered a great many things that may not have met expectations. The C2 platform appears to be a poor platform for electrification since it was never designed for that purpose so the batteries are too small and efficiency is low (weight, drag, etc.). The C-Max for example is less efficient than the Fusion, that probably would have been much worse with Escape.

Again I think Ford is going to fix this in a fairly significant way that can spread to far more products, probably more than any other carmaker. So Ford will likely arrive in full force when it needs to in China. I think it's going to be a bigger challenge in the US to make their electrification investment payoff, but generally speaking their investment is fairly modest and the systems are integrated into multiple higher volume products.
Bloggin likes this.

Last edited by Assimilator; 06-22-2017 at 11:24 PM.
Assimilator is offline  
post #6 of 70 (permalink) Old 06-23-2017, 03:52 AM
Ford Kuga
 
MKII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tallinn Estonia
Posts: 1,664
Re: Global: First in Ecology? ...in regulations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assimilator View Post
The C2 platform appears to be a poor platform for electrification since it was never designed for that purpose so the batteries are too small and efficiency is low (weight, drag, etc.). The C-Max for example is less efficient than the Fusion, that probably would have been much worse with Escape.

C2 platform has not been launched yet.
falcon lover likes this.

2012 Ford Mondeo Titanium 2.0 SW Moondust Silver 5spd manual
2014 Ford Kuga Titanium 1.6 EcoBoost AWD Panther Black 6spd Auto
MKII is offline  
post #7 of 70 (permalink) Old 06-29-2017, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
2b2
Mercury C557
 
2b2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: N NW of Atlantis (Reno)
Posts: 22,734
Blog Entries: 6
Re: Global: First in (Electro-)Ecology? ...in regulations?

posting here cuz imho this all about China sales...

report: BMW, with eye on Tesla, to introduce electric 3 series
Reuters/Automotive News » Future Product

Edward Taylor - Tom Sims - June 28, 2017

FRANKFURT -- BMW plans to introduce an electric version of its popular 3 series in September ( THIS September! ), a move designed to fend off rival Tesla, Handelsblatt reported on Wednesday.

The German automaker will present the vehicle at the Frankfurt auto show in September, the paper said.

The electrified 3 series, which is a high volume sales model, will have a range of 248 miles (400 km) and is seen as a direct response to the early success of Tesla's Model 3, which goes on sale later this year, according to Handelsblatt.

Tesla has received hundreds of thousands of reservations, with a deposit of $1,000 each, for the Model 3. Tesla plans to start volume output of the Model 3 in July.

BMW declined to comment.
.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 3er.jpg (11.3 KB, 153 views)
Bloggin likes this.

.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by 2b2; 06-29-2017 at 06:38 PM.
2b2 is offline  
post #8 of 70 (permalink) Old 06-29-2017, 08:08 PM
FIN Staff Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 7,876
Re: Global: First in (Electro-)Ecology? ...in regulations?

^...not if the Electric 3-Series is in the same price ballpark as the Model 3, that changes everything...but in a good way. I would love to have a 3-Series EV, along with the instant torque and drastically reduced maintenance that comes with an EV.
2b2 and hbmf3 like this.
Bloggin is offline  
post #9 of 70 (permalink) Old 07-04-2017, 12:27 AM Thread Starter
2b2
Mercury C557
 
2b2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: N NW of Atlantis (Reno)
Posts: 22,734
Blog Entries: 6
Re: Global: First in (Electro-) ...entrepreneurship?

Honda Charges Up Its Electric Game With Joint Motor Company
TTAC
- By Steph Willems on July 3, 2017


Following early technological success in the electric car field, Honda entered the 21st century with a newfound aim to place hybrid vehicles in the driveways of global carbuyers. While rival Toyota’s hybrids have garnered the most headlines and sales, no one can criticize Honda (CR-Z notwithstanding) for the continued refinement of its electrified powertrains. Just look at the most recent Accord Hybrid or Acura’s growing list of performance-oriented multi-motor products.

Still, as fully electric vehicles began emerging on the scene, Honda found itself lagging behind. The Clarity EV, an electric version of its second-generation fuel cell vehicle, arrives this summer with a paltry 80-mile range. However, we’re promised much more in the year ahead.

As it moves forward with its EV plans, Honda also wants to have a stake in the supply of EV components to automakers — namely, electric motors. As of today, Honda and partner Hitachi have a name for their joint venture: Hitachi Automotive Motor Systems Limited.

Following a joint agreement signed in March, each company has put up 5 billion yen ($44.1 million) towards the creation of the new business. Located on the premises of Hitachi’s existing Japanese automotive systems operation, Honda claims the facility is devoted to the “development, manufacture and sales of motors for electric vehicles.”

The automaker’s 49-percent share means Hitachi gets the naming glory.

“The new company will respond to the growing global demand from automakers for electric vehicle motors by developing competitive motors that combine the expertise of the two companies,” Honda stated in a news release this morning. It’s naturally assumed Honda’s product line will become a destination for the company’s motors.

When will Hitachi Automotive Motor Systems Limited produce its first marketable product? At this early point, there’s no word on timelines. Honda has set a goal for two-thirds of its fleet to offer alternative fuel propulsion by 2030, and has promised two new EVs for 2018 — one destined only for China, the other a global model. Presumably, the global model should possess a competitive range. These days, that means meeting the 200-plus-mile capability of the Tesla Model 3 and Chevrolet Bolt.

.
Bloggin likes this.

.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
2b2 is offline  
post #10 of 70 (permalink) Old 07-05-2017, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
2b2
Mercury C557
 
2b2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: N NW of Atlantis (Reno)
Posts: 22,734
Blog Entries: 6
Re: Global: First in (Electro-)Ecology? ...in regulations?

just found a site from some FB comments -seems thorough- will have to see...

EVadoption.com
Analyzing Key Factors That Will Drive Mass Adoption of Electric Vehicles

Bloggin likes this.

.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by 2b2; 07-05-2017 at 06:41 PM.
2b2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Inside News Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome