battery size database-project - Page 2 - Ford Inside News Community
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-30-2017, 10:49 PM
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Re: battery size database-project

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Originally Posted by SP1966 View Post
So you're saying it's about raw power and not just physical size? Does speed play into this too?
Yes it would, but it will decrease the range, very much like a combustion engine car. The faster you go the lower the mpg and fewer miles from that tank of gas.

Based on the Tesla presentation, Musk mentioned they are offering miles or range for the Model 3 instead of battery pack size since that is what consumers are most concerned about with an EV, primarily at this price point.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-30-2017, 11:41 PM
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Re: battery size database-project

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Yes it would, but it will decrease the range, very much like a combustion engine car. The faster you go the lower the mpg and fewer miles from that tank of gas.

Based on the Tesla presentation, Musk mentioned they are offering miles or range for the Model 3 instead of battery pack size since that is what consumers are most concerned about with an EV, primarily at this price point.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-02-2017, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
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Re: battery size database-project

dunno if there's a better thread for this...

August 2017 Plug-In Electric Vehicle Sales Report Card
InsideEVs.com
- 1 day ago by Jay Cole
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-02-2017, 08:42 PM
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Re: battery size database-project

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I have no idea what you're talking about.
The less fuel efficient/faster you drive, the less 'range' you get from a tank of gas. With Musk, the change is with Model 3 where the focus is more on the range instead of battery pack size, unlike the Model S with models like P100D, denoting battery pack size.

Make sense?
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-03-2017, 12:06 AM
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Re: battery size database-project

The ideal would be swappable batteries. I've been told by many engineers, however, that for automotive applications, swappable batteries are not feasible but it sure would solve the other elephant in this battery size/range debate, recharging time.
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-03-2017, 05:53 PM
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The ideal would be swappable batteries. I've been told by many engineers, however, that for automotive applications, swappable batteries are not feasible but it sure would solve the other elephant in this battery size/range debate, recharging time.
Aren't Tesla's battery packs already relatively interchangeable?

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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-23-2017, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
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Re: battery size database-project

just re?found/swiped/re?posted ... feel free to spam-it to otherpossiblyMOREappropriatethreads

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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 12:25 PM
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Re: battery size database-project

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Aren't Tesla's battery packs already relatively interchangeable?
I'm referring to a gas-station model of swappable batteries; IOW an industry-standard battery form-factor for battery configuration designed for automated quick-swap where the battery is not part-of-the-car, just as gasoline is not part-of-the-car. When you buy a car from a dealer, you leave with a full tank of gas that you didn't buy so your new car comes with a battery that you didn't actually buy.

So a driver pulls into a battery-station positions the car over a ground-level device that attaches to your swappable battery-pack, Reads the level of energy left in the car's battery, then swaps out the "old" battery for a "new" battery and charges the driver for the difference in battery charge between the "new" battery and the "old."

The swap would take less than 5 minutes, the same time as it takes to fill up a gas tank. The "old" battery gets charged at the station and put into a magazine conveyor with other charged-up batteries to feed the the ground-level swapping device. As battery technology evolves, the form-factor doesn't change but the level of battery charge evolves adding gains in efficiency and range over time.

As I said, I've been told that this kind of technology would be impossible for any number reasons relating to engineering as well as standardization and infrastructure/distribution obstacles. If it were possible, it would solve the charging-time problem that we have now of batteries-as-part-of-the-car.

That's what I meant by "swappable" as opposed to "interchangeable."
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Last edited by glyphics; 09-25-2017 at 12:29 PM.
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 09-25-2017, 01:08 PM
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Re: battery size database-project

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Originally Posted by glyphics View Post
I'm referring to a gas-station model of swappable batteries; IOW an industry-standard battery form-factor for battery configuration designed for automated quick-swap where the battery is not part-of-the-car, just as gasoline is not part-of-the-car. When you buy a car from a dealer, you leave with a full tank of gas that you didn't buy so your new car comes with a battery that you didn't actually buy.

So a driver pulls into a battery-station positions the car over a ground-level device that attaches to your swappable battery-pack, Reads the level of energy left in the car's battery, then swaps out the "old" battery for a "new" battery and charges the driver for the difference in battery charge between the "new" battery and the "old."

The swap would take less than 5 minutes, the same time as it takes to fill up a gas tank. The "old" battery gets charged at the station and put into a magazine conveyor with other charged-up batteries to feed the the ground-level swapping device. As battery technology evolves, the form-factor doesn't change but the level of battery charge evolves adding gains in efficiency and range over time.

As I said, I've been told that this kind of technology would be impossible for any number reasons relating to engineering as well as standardization and infrastructure/distribution obstacles. If it were possible, it would solve the charging-time problem that we have now of batteries-as-part-of-the-car.

That's what I meant by "swappable" as opposed to "interchangeable."
Right.....Tesla was working on this already, but I guess they moved away from it?

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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 11-22-2017, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: battery size database-project

copying for reference
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Originally Posted by wingsnut View Post
...It is a great read on where we are with battery tech.
Link to Article ( 1.6mb Pdf )
by WardsAuto Editorial Director, David E. Zoia

Battery makers only recently have begun to make big commitments to high-volume Li-ion production, with 12 new or expanded mega-factories reportedly set to come online worldwide by 2020. That includes 120 GWh of new cell capacity in China alone – enough battery power for another 1.5 million EVs annually.

With that level of new investment, the industry likely is chained to Li-ion technology – for better or worse – for most of the coming decade, or even beyond.

“We’re just at the forefront, the beginning if you will, of Li-ion battery technologies,” Bob Galyen, chief technology officer for China-based battery maker Contemporary Amperex Technology (CATL), says at the Battery Show Exhibition and Conference held in Novi, MI, in September.

That’s not to say battery makers, upstarts and researchers aren’t furiously experimenting with new chemistries and configurations in an effort to displace today’s state-of-the-art technology. They are.

All are focused on making level-of-magnitude leaps in range, safety and durability with new concepts that use more widely available, less-costly materials; swap metals with air to cut weight; and replace the current volatile liquid electrolytes used with heat-resistant solids.

The U.S. Department of Energy has set a 2020 target to cut battery-pack size and weight in half and slash costs to $125/kWh, a price point seen igniting a market shift toward electrified vehicles.

One of the concerns with today’s Li-ion batteries is the restricted availability of lithium and cobalt, a problem that only will grow as EV models proliferate and production ramps up.

WardsAuto data indicates automakers have penciled in no fewer than 85 new battery-powered models by 2025, with everyone from Aston Martin to Volvo announcing aggressive EV plans. Even commercial-truck makers are eyeing electrically powered big rigs for the future. That has Transparency Market Research projecting the Li-ion battery market will grow to $77.4 billion worldwide by 2024, from $29.7 billion in 2015, an escalation likely to ramp up pressure on the supply chain.

Demand for cobalt, becoming the go-to material for the cathode in Li-ion batteries, already is expected to outstrip supply this year by 900 tons, commodity consultancy CRU estimates.

Lithium supply may be even more problematic. Two-thirds of proven reserves are located in the “Lithium Triangle,” a small area of South America where Argentina, Bolivia and Chile intersect. That has cell producers in China, the fourth-largest source of lithium, locking up stakes in Chilean and Argentinian mining companies to corner the market on the material and further tighten their grip on the emerging EV-battery sector.

Prices reportedly have been skyrocketing.

“We’re starting to see some headwinds coming in from raw materials,” Joern Tinnemeyer, chief technology officer for EnerSys, notes during a Battery Show panel discussion. “This may have some impact on EV adoption, because the price point will not drop as much as we need it to.”

But moving past some of these constraints with new technology won’t come easily...

Nickel-3D Zinc - pg8
Zinc Air
- pg13
Lithium-Air
- pg14
Solid State
- pg15
Li-ion, Still Future for Now
- pg17
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Last edited by 2b2; 11-22-2017 at 06:10 PM.
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