battery size database-project - Ford Inside News Community
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-16-2017, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
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Post battery size database-project

Anyone know where on the Net a full listing can be found? or want to contribute to making one?

Battery Sizing for Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles in Beijing:
A TCO Model Based Analysis
- Pdf (2014)
...
Abstract: This paper proposes a total cost of ownership (TCO) model for battery sizing of
plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs). The proposed systematic TCO model innovatively
integrates the Beijing driving database and optimal PHEV energy management strategies
developed earlier. The TCO, including battery, fuel, electricity, and salvage costs, is
calculated in yearly cash flows. The salvage cost, based on battery degradation model, is
proposed for the first time. The results show that the optimal battery size for PHEVs in
Beijing is 6–8 kWh.
Several additional scenarios are also analyzed:
(1) 10% increase in battery price or discount rate leads to an optimal battery size of 6 kWh,
and 10% increase in fuel price shifts the optimal battery size to 8 kWh;
(2) the longer and more dispersive daily range distribution in the U.S. increases the optimal battery size to 14 kWh;
(3) the subsidy in China results in an optimal battery size of 13 kWh,
while that in the U.S. results in 17 kWh,
and a fuel savings rate based subsidy policy is innovatively proposed;
(4) the optimal battery size with Li4Ti5O12 batteries is 2 kWh,
but the TCO of Li4Ti5O12 batteries is higher than that of LiFePO4 batteries...
- - - - - - -
unrelated



UPdate:I'm surprised pure BEVs have (already) been ahead of Plug-Ins
- cuz of Tesla?
- afaik there are still more choices in the P-Is
.

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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-16-2017, 02:30 PM Thread Starter
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Re: battery size database-project

just scrolling thru an old textfile for numbers...then googling

70, 75, 90, or 100 kWh 2016 Tesla Model X & 2017 Model S (afaik)
65-75 kWh Tesla Model 3
60-85 kWh [disc] Tesla S
60 kWh Chevy Bolt (2017) 150kW/201hp peak
56 kWh [disc] Tesla Roadster (2009)

41.8 kWh Toyota RAV4-electric

30-24 kWh Nissan Leaf = 80kW/107bhp
28 kWh 2017 Hyundai Ioniq EV = 88kW/120PS
27 kWh Kia Soul EV = 81.4kW/109bhp
24 kWh Fiat 500e 83kW/111ehp
23 kWh Focus Electric = 107kW/143.48hp

19/21.3 kWh [disc?] Chevy Spark EV (2013–2016?) 97kW/130bhp
16 kWh Mitsubishi i-MiEV 49kw/66ehp
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
22 kWh BMW i3 Plug-in 125kW/167.6hp + 650cc 2cyl gas 34 hp/25 kW
18.4 kWh Cadillac CT6 Plug-in ___ + 2.0T 4cyl 265hp = 335hp total
18.4 kWh 2016 Volt˛ + gas 1.5L 101hp/75kW
16.5/16 kWh ELR /Volt + gas 84hp/63kw
16kWh Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in + 3.6v6 = 260hp total

12 kWh Outlander PHEV

10.8 kWh Porsche Cayenne S E-Hybrid Plug-in 95ehp + 333hp 3.0schg = 416hp

9.9 kWh Passat PHEV 80 kW + 115 kW gas 1.4 TSI = 155 kW
9.8 kWh 2016 Hyundai Sonata Plug-in
9.4 kWh Porsche Panamera S E-Hybrid Plug-in 136ehp + 330hp 2.9schg = 462hp
9.2 kWh Volvo XC90 T8 34kW(?)starter-generator + 2.0S&T 316hp = 400hp total
9.0-9.2kWh BMW X5 xDrive40e Plug-in 111ehp + 2.0T 240hp = 308hp tot.
8.9 kWh 2017 Hyundai Ioniq Plug-in 45kW/61PS + 1.6GDI 78kW/105hp = ?
8.8 kWh VW GTE Plug-in Golf 101-102eHP + 1.4 gas 148-150HP = ?
8.8 kWh Audi A3 Sportback e-tron 75kW + 1.4 150hp/110 kW = 204hp/150kW total
8.8 kWh Prius Prime 68kW/91ehp + 1.8 4cyl 95hp/71kW = 121hp/90kW
8.7 kWh MB plug-in S500 + 3.0TT V6 = 436 hp

7.6 kWh Ford Energi's 88kw/118ehp + gas 141hp = 188hp
7.1 kWh BMW i8 Plug-in 96kW/131ehp + 1.5T 3cyl 172˝kW/231hp = ?

4.4 kWh [disc] Prius Plug-in (2012-2015)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
1.6 kWh 2016 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid
1.56 kWh 2017 Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid 32kW/43 bhp + 1.6 = 139bhp/104kW
1.4 kWh Ford Hybrids 88kw/118ehp + gas 141hp = 188hp
1.3 kWh Prius(2009)
1.1 kWh VW Jetta TurboHybrid = 150hp + 27hpE = 170total

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

utility factor in EV mode (wiki)/EPA= % of miles driven using electricity by average driver
83% BMW i3 REx
66% Chevrolet Volt
65% Cadillac ELR
45% Ford Energi models
43% McLaren P1
39% Porsche Panamera S E-Hybrid
37% BMW i8 roadster
29% Toyota Prius PHV

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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-16-2017, 06:39 PM
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Re: battery size database-project

For China, a PHEV has to offer 31 EV miles to qualify for the consumer to qualify for the subsidy. This is why the Mondeo PHEV coming to China late this year will have a larger battery pack than the Energi models sold in the US, and offer 31 EV miles. A 10-mile increase. The question is why has Ford not offered this larger battery pack in the current Energi models in the US? Do they really need to be forced to compete? Which shows a lack of dedication as it relates to electrified vehicles? This should have happened with the Fusion and C-Max Energi update.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-17-2017, 12:05 AM
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Re: battery size database-project

Could it just be cost? Maybe they can't increase capacity without increasing the sticker price?
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-29-2017, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
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Re: battery size database-project

Quote:
Originally Posted by "2b2 in Tesla3 thread" View Post
even tho I'm proudly *paranoiac*,
I feel Ford's condition is more a mental impairment than mercenary-greed,
and becuz of that, CANNOT understand how FLincmoco ignores that:
ex: I'm very impressed where Lincoln has gotten to
BUT
to the GREAT MAJORITY, Lincoln does NOT EXIST...as anything meaningful
so too
for electrification
FORD DOES NOT EXIST ...& imho will take just as much time as Lincoln to make a DENT in perceptions

corporate-suicidal facts:
- trucks will provide plenty of petrol dependency/jonesing
- the stoopidity of NOT putting the $10k e-drivetrains in e-LUX cars
- ditto ^ not USING their parts bin, ie spreading it more (MKZ-ENergi / Virtual-e-Awd)
- ditto ^ chasing the phantom of autonoM.O.U.S.E.y instead of the CERTAINTY of ELECTRIFICATION
- not getting even slightly ahead of the arrivING phase-change = a SLEW of electrifried vehicles goING On-Sale

Can someone contribute a countUP of H/PHEV/BEV available models as they've increased over ~the past 2 years? ...or even better, since the Fusion-Energi came out??
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2b2 View Post
70, 75, 90, or 100 kWh 2016 Tesla Model X & 2017 Model S (afaik)
65-75 kWh Tesla Model 3
60-85 kWh [disc] Tesla S
60 kWh Chevy Bolt (2017) 150kW/201hp peak
56 kWh [disc] Tesla Roadster (2009)

41.8 kWh Toyota RAV4-electric

30-24 kWh Nissan Leaf = 80kW/107bhp
28 kWh 2017 Hyundai Ioniq EV = 88kW/120PS
27 kWh Kia Soul EV = 81.4kW/109bhp
24 kWh Fiat 500e 83kW/111ehp
23 kWh Focus Electric = 107kW/143.48hp

19/21.3 kWh [disc?] Chevy Spark EV (2013–2016?) 97kW/130bhp
16 kWh Mitsubishi i-MiEV 49kw/66ehp
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
22 kWh BMW i3 Plug-in 125kW/167.6hp + 650cc 2cyl gas 34 hp/25 kW
18.4 kWh Cadillac CT6 Plug-in ___ + 2.0T 4cyl 265hp = 335hp total
18.4 kWh 2016 Volt˛ + gas 1.5L 101hp/75kW
16.5/16 kWh ELR /Volt + gas 84hp/63kw
16kWh Chrysler Pacifica Plug-in + 3.6v6 = 260hp total

12 kWh Outlander PHEV

10.8 kWh Porsche Cayenne S E-Hybrid Plug-in 95ehp + 333hp 3.0schg = 416hp

9.9 kWh Passat PHEV 80 kW + 115 kW gas 1.4 TSI = 155 kW
9.8 kWh 2016 Hyundai Sonata Plug-in
9.4 kWh Porsche Panamera S E-Hybrid Plug-in 136ehp + 330hp 2.9schg = 462hp
9.2 kWh Volvo XC90 T8 34kW(?)starter-generator + 2.0S&T 316hp = 400hp total
9.0-9.2kWh BMW X5 xDrive40e Plug-in 111ehp + 2.0T 240hp = 308hp tot.
8.9 kWh 2017 Hyundai Ioniq Plug-in 45kW/61PS + 1.6GDI 78kW/105hp = ?
8.8 kWh VW GTE Plug-in Golf 101-102eHP + 1.4 gas 148-150HP = ?
8.8 kWh Audi A3 Sportback e-tron 75kW + 1.4 150hp/110 kW = 204hp/150kW total
8.8 kWh Prius Prime 68kW/91ehp + 1.8 4cyl 95hp/71kW = 121hp/90kW
8.7 kWh MB plug-in S500 + 3.0TT V6 = 436 hp

7.6 kWh Ford Energi's 88kw/118ehp + gas 141hp = 188hp
7.1 kWh BMW i8 Plug-in 96kW/131ehp + 1.5T 3cyl 172˝kW/231hp = ?

4.4 kWh [disc] Prius Plug-in (2012-2015)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
1.6 kWh 2016 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid
1.56 kWh 2017 Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid 32kW/43 bhp + 1.6 = 139bhp/104kW
1.4 kWh Ford Hybrids 88kw/118ehp + gas 141hp = 188hp
1.3 kWh Prius(2009)
1.1 kWh VW Jetta TurboHybrid = 150hp + 27hpE = 170total

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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-29-2017, 03:38 PM
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Re: battery size database-project

Ah, the eternal debate, does size really matter?
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-30-2017, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: battery size database-project

^nice to be able to always count on you, @SP1966
/

&
wiki, "...A plug-in hybrid version, the Ford Fusion Energi, was released in the U.S. in February 2013..."
[ 2013 ] EVobsession.com - CHART &attached

don't think ^that^ is gonna work = too Much work
& incomplete: GM & Lexoid hybrids not specified, hydrogenHonda included unlabelled, vehicles I never heard of, ...

[ 2014 ] 13 New Electric Vehicles For Sale In 2014 - EVobsession.com
...
[ 2017forecast ] EVobsession.com written 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2b2 View Post
...H / PHEV / BEV...
well, thanks to EVobsession think I'll need to add / Hydrogen / Solar
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Electrified-Car-Sales 2013.jpg (216.6 KB, 0 views)

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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-30-2017, 05:59 PM Thread Starter
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Re: battery size database-project

Originally published on CleanTechnica By Loren McDonald
The Current & Future State of EVs from the 'BIG 3' US Auto Companies
EVobsession.com
- Published on June 2nd, 2017 by EV Expert

Let’s be clear, despite various comments and announcements from executives at the “Big 3” auto companies (Ford, GM, and Fiat Chrysler), they obviously have yet to really embrace electric cars.

Let’s look at their recent/current plug-in hybrid and pure battery electric model offerings^

That’s it, a grand total of 3 currently available pure-electric vehicles (BEVs) and 5 plug-in hybrids across 3 car companies that sell 8 brands of cars and trucks. Two models (Cadillac ELR and Chevrolet Spark) were discontinued in 2016 and one, the Fiat 500e, is a compliance car and only available in two states.

Are the Big 3 About to Get Serious About Electric Vehicles?
...

Ford Motor Company: Talk, Talk

...

General Motors: Nice Job With the Bolt, But Hey, What Do You Do for an Encore?

...

Fiat Chrysler: EVs Are Stupid, and Besides, We’re Just Trying to Survive

...

More...
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-30-2017, 07:43 PM
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Re: battery size database-project

Quote:
Originally Posted by SP1966 View Post
Ah, the eternal debate, does size really matter?

It may be that with the density of battery cells in flux, it's more about how much 'range' that's most important to consumers as opposed to just the battery or pack size.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 07-30-2017, 09:32 PM
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Re: battery size database-project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloggin View Post
It may be that with the density of battery cells in flux, it's more about how much 'range' that's most important to consumers as opposed to just the battery or pack size.
So you're saying it's about raw power and not just physical size? Does speed play into this too?
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