Ford says battery tech still too immature for performance EV - Page 2 - Ford Inside News Community
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post #11 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-21-2018, 11:53 AM
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Re: Ford says battery tech still too immature for performance EV

They better hurry and get that $10B, as their complete dominance of the market is about to be shared by everyone.
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post #12 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-21-2018, 11:34 PM
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Re: Ford says battery tech still too immature for performance EV

Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon lover View Post
Wall Street and Tesla love affair will end soon. The problems are starting ...


"There's growing concern over Tesla's finances — and Wall Street is convinced the company will need to raise money soon."
"Tesla says it will be profitable by the end of the year and won't need to raise more cash. Many on Wall Street disagree."
"Tesla is burning cash like crazy"
"The Goldman Sachs analyst David Tamberrino told clients earlier this month that Tesla may need $10 billion in fresh funding within 18 months to stay alive."



The link: https://www.businessinsider.es/tesla...18-5?r=US&IR=T




IMO, Tesla doesn´t count in the future of electric cars. It will not survive.
My comments weren't about Tesla; that was just an aside. I'm not a Tesla fan-boy but they did throw a wrench into the machinery. Would Ford be investing so heavily in battery tech if Ford-eclipsing Tesla shares were not thrilling Wall Street?

My comments were about Ford and the speculation about a practical benefit of a high end BEV even if it wasn't an affordable, high volume production car. Mightn't Wall Street have had a "love affair" with Ford if they had an attractive and expensive BEV in production showing the way to the future as a halo car? That was my question.
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post #13 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-22-2018, 07:01 AM
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Re: Ford says battery tech still too immature for performance EV

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Originally Posted by glyphics View Post
My comments weren't about Tesla; that was just an aside. I'm not a Tesla fan-boy but they did throw a wrench into the machinery. Would Ford be investing so heavily in battery tech if Ford-eclipsing Tesla shares were not thrilling Wall Street?

My comments were about Ford and the speculation about a practical benefit of a high end BEV even if it wasn't an affordable, high volume production car. Mightn't Wall Street have had a "love affair" with Ford if they had an attractive and expensive BEV in production showing the way to the future as a halo car? That was my question.



I know you are talking about Ford... but i want to talk about Tesla, too.
Wall Street do not have nor will have a love affair with Ford, because they are attracted only by the actions of new technology companies, and Ford is not. Ford is an old car company that does not have a prepotent and talkative leader, who makes impossible promises to attract money from investors.


A powerful electric crossover from Ford as a halo car will atract the attention from Wall Street?. Maybe, and maybe not... There is the Ford GT, a really powerful and advanced race car, with the newest tech, for the common man... and nothing happen with Wall Street.
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post #14 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-22-2018, 10:25 PM
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Re: Ford says battery tech still too immature for performance EV

There IS a thread for Tesla if you want to talk about Tesla. This thread is about Ford and battery technology and I was responding to comments about that.

OK ... let's try again.

An expensive luxury sedan or crossover selling to the public (the Tesla Model S is one of the strongest selling luxury cars in America) is a whole different ball game than a limited edition exotic ICE race car that sold only through subscription.

If Ford has experience with battery tech and learned so much about it - as some here claim - a luxury BEV could have been possible 6 years ago when Tesla (there, I mentioned them again) introduced the Model S which captivated not only Wall Street but customers who went out of their way to buy them. I'm speculating about what might have happened if Ford had presented to the world a vision of the future in tangible, buyable form when (or even before) that other company* did.

The thread says "Ford says battery tech still too immature for performance EV" There is a company* whose luxury cars cars seem to perform pretty well off the line.



*Tesla.
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post #15 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-23-2018, 02:23 AM
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Re: Ford says battery tech still too immature for performance EV

Context.
Quote:
“If we look at the battery at the moment, you can have an energy or a power battery – the energy battery is kind of like a big water tank, but it’s got a small pipe. You can leave the tap running for a fairly long time, not a lot of water comes out of it, but it takes ages to get the tank empty.”


“Then again, it also takes a long time to fill it up.”


“A power battery is like a very small tank of water with big pipes, which is relatively easy to drain but also very easy to fill it. I’m looking for something in between. At the moment, that technology is not yet there – that’s something we need to look at. The question is: how close we can get between power and energy.”
I can see Ford hunting for a certain sweet spot, the balance between a power battery (Tesla) and the
so called energy battery like regular BEVs have.. So I sense that Ford is not after 0-60 in 2.5 seconds,
so I"m thinking that Ford wants something like 0-60 in 4 seconds and 250 miles range all at an affordable
price of lets say, $40K to $50K

Last edited by jpd80; 06-23-2018 at 02:33 AM.
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post #16 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-23-2018, 06:23 AM
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Re: Ford says battery tech still too immature for performance EV

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Originally Posted by glyphics View Post
There IS a thread for Tesla if you want to talk about Tesla. This thread is about Ford and battery technology and I was responding to comments about that.

OK ... let's try again.

An expensive luxury sedan or crossover selling to the public (the Tesla Model S is one of the strongest selling luxury cars in America) is a whole different ball game than a limited edition exotic ICE race car that sold only through subscription.

If Ford has experience with battery tech and learned so much about it - as some here claim - a luxury BEV could have been possible 6 years ago when Tesla (there, I mentioned them again) introduced the Model S which captivated not only Wall Street but customers who went out of their way to buy them. I'm speculating about what might have happened if Ford had presented to the world a vision of the future in tangible, buyable form when (or even before) that other company* did.

The thread says "Ford says battery tech still too immature for performance EV" There is a company* whose luxury cars cars seem to perform pretty well off the line.



*Tesla.
Are you the boss here? Are you the man that control what can we say or not? You are free to compare Tesla with Ford, but I can’t talk about the Tesla’s problems?

You are very aggressive in a forum where we come to get fun...
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post #17 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-23-2018, 11:41 PM
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Re: Ford says battery tech still too immature for performance EV

'Ford says battery tech still too immature for performance EV"

It quote from Ford is just odd and makes Ford seem like they are disconnected from the EV industry. However, Ford does see the industry from within their own scope, meaning that they pretend they are not in competition when they are not leading(Tesla, Nissan, VW, etc), but when they are ahead(F-150, Mustang), they acknowledge the competition without question.

Which indicates that the battery tech Ford sees as 'too immature' is just their own. Because clearly the competition is excelling with performance EV technology.
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post #18 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-24-2018, 06:38 AM
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Re: Ford says battery tech still too immature for performance EV

By Excelling, you mean its coming at one heck of a premium and excluding a huge portion of he market.
What Ford is looking for is more maturity with battery tech that delivers power and range at more affordable prices.
Tesla S is a wonderful vehicle but it will never see enough sales traction to fully fund it next product cycle,
if Ford were to chase those sorts of rainbows and unicorns, well it would be just a waste of time and effort repeating the inefficiencies of Tesla. That vehicle and battery tech that Ford seeks is in that lovely niche thay's just above $40K through to $60K, get product in that area and the world is your oyster.
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Last edited by jpd80; 06-24-2018 at 06:48 AM.
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post #19 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-24-2018, 10:04 AM
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Re: Ford says battery tech still too immature for performance EV

Electric GT reveals stripped Tesla Model S for race series
June 22, 2018, 4:32 pm
by Justin King


All teams will compete in an identical-specification Model S P100D that has shed more than 1,000 pounds.

Electric GT's production-EV racing series is one step closer to reality as the company delivers its first race-prepped Tesla Model S to a customer in Barcelona.

Referred to as the EPCS V2.3 Tesla P100DL, the car has been stripped of unnecessary interior pieces to help reduce its curb weight by more than 1,000 pounds.

With 778 horsepower and 734 pound-feet of torque, the lightened sedan is said to be capable of hitting 62 mph in just 2.1 seconds and topping out at 155 mph.

This is a big full size 4-door sedan at 1 sec faster to 60 than the carbon fiber GT race car. But then again the BASE 2020 Tesla Roadster can get there in 1.9 sec, this is before the Space X Performance Pack.

Hello Ford....(knock, knock, knock).....are you there?
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post #20 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-24-2018, 10:41 AM
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Re: Ford says battery tech still too immature for performance EV

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Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
By Excelling, you mean its coming at one heck of a premium and excluding a huge portion of he market.
What Ford is looking for is more maturity with battery tech that delivers power and range at more affordable prices.
Tesla S is a wonderful vehicle but it will never see enough sales traction to fully fund it next product cycle,
if Ford were to chase those sorts of rainbows and unicorns, well it would be just a waste of time and effort repeating the inefficiencies of Tesla. That vehicle and battery tech that Ford seeks is in that lovely niche thay's just above $40K through to $60K, get product in that area and the world is your oyster.
The power and range is already here for the competition, it just takes 'volume' to bring down the unit price. Which is why the Model 3 starts at $35k today, but at 10k weekly production by 2019 it drops to $28, which should put a dual mode performance model at about $40k. And it is in chasing those rainbows and unicorn that is the power behind all innovation and advancements across industries. No one innovates at a profit.....it is an investment in future profitability. Tesla has just expanded that envelope more than any other automaker dared to do, and a few now trying to catch up, and others like Ford timidly waiting for their safety net, after others have led the way. But this is consistent for Ford, who is more comfortable in the midrange with innovation, not on the leading edge, but trying not to get left too far behind. Unfortunately for Ford, the auto industry is blending with the fast paced technology industry, where you are either one of the leaders or you fade away.

I know, Ford has to play it safe because they mad bad and slow decisions and now don't have the cash to fund the EV push without dropping out of the car market for several years, unable to fund a generation of cars. Everyone knows that story. But it is also necessary to understand that every action moving forward is hinged on that failure. So no, battery tech is not to immature, it's just Ford's version of the battery tech that is still too immature. And Ford has waited too long to move forward with EV technology banking on hybrids instead, trying to hold on to combustion engine profits as long as possible, While making a last ditch effort at more SUVs right as gas prices begin to spike long term globally, sending more consumers toward EVs.

As a combustion engine company, Ford does have a disadvantage compared with a new EV company. Which is why it would have been better if Ford would have launched a separate EV only company, instead all the 'mobility' distractions, ramped up technology, platforms, products, charging infrastructure and production so they are prepared to compete directly with the EV competition globally, while transitioning their ICE business products as the market dictates over time. Because every year that Ford does not have production EVs out on the road in customer hands, driving them, the further Ford gets behind with the technology, market/investor perception and penetration. Dropping out of the EV business for 2 years will hurt, and again give Ford another hill to climb, just like dropping out of the small pick-up market and having to re-enter. But this time they won't have an established model to use to re-enter the market, and just using names from old ICE models won't get them there.
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