Ford/Lincoln product forecast UPDATED - Page 8 - Ford Inside News Community
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post #71 of 592 (permalink) Old 03-06-2016, 11:47 PM
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re: Ford/Lincoln product forecast

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Originally Posted by 2b2 View Post
10,000 s & s
& millions to apply that the Focus

but
NOT in the U.S imho for the foreseeable future!!

they need to be easy & fun to drive
fit into teeny-tiny parking places
& have the interior packaging of a small TARDIS
Put in the complexities of the Focus' platform on the Fiesta and you have a Fiesta which would costs as much to maintain as a Focus.
B-segment cars like the Fiesta also target first time (brand-new) car owners.

The Fiesta ST is a fun to drive car even if it has a twist beam rear suspension, some claim it's even more fun to drive than the Focus ST.

A car that's cheap to run and maintain does not mean the car itself has to be cheap. The current Fiesta is a good example... it just needs a bit more interior room and a new gearbox to replace the PowerShift transmission to make it a global hit, not just in Europe.

Another thing, a small car architecture developed from the ground up would most likely result in better interior packaging and lower curb weight.
A larger platform trimmed down would most likely result in a car with poorer interior packaging, particularly in the leg room department and it would most likely end up with a heavy curb weight for its size.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 2b2 View Post
&
just had a new thought
IF the C-Max had been scaled onto the Fiesta structure, imho it would've been a hit
= small enough to be CUTE instead of awkward
You'd end up with the B-Max but with conventional rear doors and virtually no cargo space since the batteries would have filled up the smaller cargo area.

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post #72 of 592 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 05:07 AM
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re: Ford/Lincoln product forecast

Interesting that the Honda Fit/Jazz gets so much praise but is out sold by the tiny Fiesta in both Europe and USA.
Actually the Fiesta is a top seller in USA in its segment, but because of strange placements of the Kia Soul and Nissan Versa as B-segment (subcompact cars) is delegated to 3/4th place.
The Kia Soul is most definitely a CUV/SUV and the Versa is most definitely a compact size car.

I cannot see Ford NA withdrawing the Fiesta, as it is a solid competitor, plus with the Fiesta ST being a big hit in North America.
That said I am positive that Ford NA will add a Mazda CX-3 sized vehicle to their Sub Compact line-up to solidify their B segment offerings.

Strange that the next Fiesta was not introduce in Geneva this year, as I am at a loss where the heck FoE will introduce it.
FoE has no other major auto shows this year, as they will not be at this years Paris Auto Show.
And it must be really soon as it is planned as a MY2017.
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post #73 of 592 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 05:27 AM
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re: Ford/Lincoln product forecast

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Originally Posted by MKII View Post
Interesting that the Honda Fit/Jazz gets so much praise but is out sold by the tiny Fiesta in both Europe and USA.
Actually the Fiesta is a top seller in USA in its segment, but because of strange placements of the Kia Soul and Nissan Versa as B-segment (subcompact cars) is delegated to 3/4th place.
Even if I love Ford cars, as a car enthusiast I'm curious about other cars in the market even if it's from a competitor of Ford.
The Honda Jazz/Fit is not perfect, but it's impressive specially when it comes to interior packaging, how they maximized the space of a car that has the same foot print as a Fiesta, and it's only a bit taller (by 1.9 inches).

Do you have sales figures for the B-segment cars in the US? The Versa is a B-segment car.
The Jazz is more popular than the Fiesta in Asia because it doubles as a family car, and handling is actually good. When it comes to fun to drive hatchbacks, it's usually the Fiesta, Jazz/Fit, and Mazda 2 in the list.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MKII View Post
I cannot see Ford NA withdrawing the Fiesta, as it is a solid competitor, plus with the Fiesta ST being a big hit in North America.

Strange that the next Fiesta was not introduce in Geneva this year, as I am at a loss where the heck FoE will introduce it.
FoE has no other major auto shows this year, as they will not be at this years Paris Auto Show.
And it must be really soon as it is planned as a MY2017.
The next gen Fiesta will most likely be unveiled in one of the European Auto shows next year. Based on the spy photos, it's currently in its early stages (prototype is still hiding under the old body).

What the Fiesta needs... slightly more rear passenger room and a new automatic transmission option.
I prefer a manual transmission, but based on market demand, automatics are important in Asia since this makes up a large percentage of car sales.

Current gen Fiesta cons: Aside from the smallish interior, its the Powershift transmission. (This put a dent on the Fiesta's reputation)
A lot of people got victimized by the faulty TCM of the problematic PowerShift. there was no recall (I think there was one in the US), people had to shell out the equivalent of US$1,278 or 1,167 euros to get their Fiestas fixed.


PS: I don't hate the current Fiesta, it would actually be my first choice (manual transmission model) if I were in the market for a new B-segment car.
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post #74 of 592 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 07:53 AM
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re: Ford/Lincoln product forecast

US sub compact 2015 sales http://left-lane.com/us-sales-2015-f...mpact-segment/

I guess the Nissan Versa can claim to be a subcompact because of its wheelbase? But overall it really is a compact
size vehicle and if my memory is correct I believe US car sales used to include the Versa sales in both B & C segment categories.
I know the Versa's Euro name was Tiida which was classified as a Compact, same as the Focus and now the name change to the Pulsar.

The Honda Fit/Jazz is another odd ball variant that can be classified as a small MPV like Ford's B-Max, which BTW out sells the Jazz in Europe as well.

I guess what surprises me when reading opinions on USA/Canada forums complaining about lack luster sales of the Fiesta, and how to fix it when in reality the long in the tooth Fiesta appears to be selling amazingly well. And the gushed over Honda Fit & Mazda 2 being brand new models in comparison to the very old Fiesta are not.

I suppose Ford lovers have higher sales goal expectations for the Fiesta. But IMHO I think the Fiesta even though it most definitely needs an overhaul has done what was expected from FoMoCo when they finally added a subcompact to its North American line up.
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post #75 of 592 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 09:43 AM
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re: Ford/Lincoln product forecast

I had an old Escort which was a sub-compact, and it just seemed so much roomier than the Fiesta. Cargo floor was much more usable, and rear seats had much more legroom.
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post #76 of 592 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 11:12 AM
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re: Ford/Lincoln product forecast

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I had an old Escort which was a sub-compact, and it just seemed so much roomier than the Fiesta. Cargo floor was much more usable, and rear seats had much more legroom.
The Ford Escort was on the CE14 platform used by the Ford Motor Company for its compact cars during the 1980s and early 1990s. The CE14 platform was heavily derived from the platform of the European Ford Escort. A stretched variation of the CE14 appeared in 1984 for the mid-size Ford Tempo and Mercury Topaz.
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post #77 of 592 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 02:33 PM
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re: Ford/Lincoln product forecast

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The Ford Escort was on the CE14 platform used by the Ford Motor Company for its compact cars during the 1980s and early 1990s. The CE14 platform was heavily derived from the platform of the European Ford Escort. A stretched variation of the CE14 appeared in 1984 for the mid-size Ford Tempo and Mercury Topaz.
Escort was listed as sub-compact and Tempo as compact for the US market.
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post #78 of 592 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 02:47 PM
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re: Ford/Lincoln product forecast

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKII View Post
US sub compact 2015 sales http://left-lane.com/us-sales-2015-f...mpact-segment/

I guess the Nissan Versa can claim to be a subcompact because of its wheelbase? But overall it really is a compact
size vehicle and if my memory is correct I believe US car sales used to include the Versa sales in both B & C segment categories.
I know the Versa's Euro name was Tiida which was classified as a Compact, same as the Focus and now the name change to the Pulsar.

The Honda Fit/Jazz is another odd ball variant that can be classified as a small MPV like Ford's B-Max, which BTW out sells the Jazz in Europe as well.

I guess what surprises me when reading opinions on USA/Canada forums complaining about lack luster sales of the Fiesta, and how to fix it when in reality the long in the tooth Fiesta appears to be selling amazingly well. And the gushed over Honda Fit & Mazda 2 being brand new models in comparison to the very old Fiesta are not.

I suppose Ford lovers have higher sales goal expectations for the Fiesta. But IMHO I think the Fiesta even though it most definitely needs an overhaul has done what was expected from FoMoCo when they finally added a subcompact to its North American line up.
You must be referring to the Versa Note hatchback... the Versa models including the sedan compete in the subcompact segment, but I think they are classified as compacts by the EPA.

The Jazz/Fit is not an MPV, it's Honda's B-segment hatchback.

The Jazz is not as tall as some people perceive it to be. I just checked the specs and the B-Max MPV is a full 3 inches taller.
It's also not about it being newer because even the old Jazz/Fit had impressive interior packaging.

I guess what i'm saying is there's a lot of room for the Fiesta to grow without it needing to be longer or much taller.
If they come up with something like this, they can win B-segment customers in the Asia-Pacific region the same way the Ranger has, it can slap the competition with a long list of class leading stuff, not just a long list of standard features.

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post #79 of 592 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 03:35 PM
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re: Ford/Lincoln product forecast

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I think GM is figuring out that track numbers don't get you there alone, the customer also has to want to live with the car day to day. And unfortunately for Camaro, they cant offer enough different 'packages' to correct a bad external and ergonomic design. It looks like they tried to stuff a body design that's too big on a frame that's too small, and had no idea what to do past the front door window. All that sheetmetal between the rear wheel and the super tiny side rear window is ridiculous. They had to see that train wreck....why didn't anyone say something before they built it? And how did the idea of offering even worse visibility than the previous version make sense to management? Even the overall design looks unfinished, or not fully designed, missing the finishing details. I think GM was so focused on matching Mustang's dimensions exactly, that the Camaro's design came second.


Talking about the size of the windows and the visibility, this ZL1 got in the cables right in front of us one day. The guy was give or take 5'9" and in the 230# range. Not one opening on that car was big enough for him to get out. If he kicked out the windshield or back glass, the door windows, the moon roof, or even the pass into the trunk. If the car had caught fire, he would have died. Mustang windows save lives!
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post #80 of 592 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 03:53 PM
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re: Ford/Lincoln product forecast

"Mustang windows save lives"


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