Ford/Lincoln May 2017 Sales - Page 4 - Ford Inside News Community
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post #31 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 10:34 AM
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Re: Ford/Lincoln May 2017 Sales

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Originally Posted by 2b2 View Post
^ TY


&
not gonna make a habit of this but, imho, we(I) need more context:
Those annual sales numbers seem way off from what I had read elsewhere, of which I had based my response to RMC. Let me look closer later when I have some time.

I may owe u an apology RMC!
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post #32 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 10:53 AM
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Re: Ford/Lincoln May 2017 Sales

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Originally Posted by Samesun View Post
He has a theory and I called it speculation. My opinion and I stand by it. So if Lincoln adds another SUV, does it stand to reason that it wouldn't substantially increase Lincoln's customer base but just steal many sales from MKX/mkc? MKX has maintained or increased its yearly sales every year since about 2010 except for a slight drop the year mkc debuted then bounded back and closed 2016 with about 7k units above previous year making its highest sales ever...this w mkc as in house competition. So Lincoln substantially increased their customer base.
Here are RMC’s words you disagreed with,

“I think as a whole, their crossover sales will increase, but XT5's numbers will go down some”

That is completely reasonable of RMC and hardly a theory, and factual numbers would back that as what typically happens when you offer several similar product classes. Are we really debating this????

You also called his statement “speculation at its finest”, by concluding that what he was really suggesting, is that there are no more available customers than what was sold for the XT5. Sorry, RMC’s words were very clear and never said anything close to that. Hence my post.

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post #33 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 11:16 AM
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Re: Ford/Lincoln May 2017 Sales

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Originally Posted by wingsnut View Post
Here are RMC’s words you disagreed with,

“I think as a whole, their crossover sales will increase, but XT5's numbers will go down some”

That is completely reasonable of RMC and hardly a theory, and factual numbers would back that as what typically happens when you offer several similar product classes. Are we really debating this????

You also called his statement “speculation at its finest”, by concluding that what he was really suggesting, is that there are no more available customers than what was sold for the XT5. Sorry, RMC’s words were very clear and never said anything close to that. Hence my post.
As I explained in the MKX's case, the numbers may actually go up for XT5 with siblings. So everything is speculation. Why is this so difficult to understand? And in the end it's my opinion...please stop already. I know u want everything on this forum to be ford positive and let's sh*t on everything gm but I have a right to my opinion. And if you had read further, I may have to reconsider my stand on MKX/mkc sales numbers so my theory goes out the window.
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post #34 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 12:11 PM
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Re: Ford/Lincoln May 2017 Sales

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Originally Posted by Samesun View Post
Ok so XT5 sells roughly 5-6000 units monthly...so are u suggesting that there are only 5-6000 buyers monthly ready to purchase a Cadillac SUV and even though they may want a larger or smaller SUV, they settle for XT5 because that's the only choice and these buyers drop a fair chunk of cash on a vehicle size they didn't really want? And subsequently, any future caddy SUV will be sharing this same pool of buyers? That's speculation at its finest!
Lets say you really like Cadillac and want a crossover, when your only options are currently XT5, XT5 or the massive BOF SUV Escalade (yes, I intentionally typed XT5 twice), the buyer would only have the XT5 as a true option. So yes, I do believe that a buyer would settle for an XT5. I didn't say XT4 and XT5 buyers would share the same limited pool......yes there'd be some overlap, but as a whole, I said total sales would grow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samesun View Post
As I explained in the MKX's case, the numbers may actually go up for XT5 with siblings. So everything is speculation. Why is this so difficult to understand? And in the end it's my opinion...please stop already. I know u want everything on this forum to be ford positive and let's sh*t on everything gm but I have a right to my opinion. And if you had read further, I may have to reconsider my stand on MKX/mkc sales numbers so my theory goes out the window.
Perhaps I should have added "initially" to my comment, as long term as the brand gets stronger and is considered by more buyers, yes, I would agree sales of both individually (and obviously the total together) would increase. But after launch and for a few months after, I'd say it's very likely that you'd see some XT5 buyers jump to an "XT4," resulting in a lower total for XT5.

For reference, here's a chart showing MKC and MKX sales from 2012 until now, and you can see what happens with MKC's debut.



EDIT: Dark blue represents MKX, orange represents MKC, and green represents all Lincoln utilities together. I realized I accidentally chose the Lincoln utilities section for the data in the chart, I'm keeping that graph, but adding the correct one of just MKC and MKX volume.



NOTE: before April 2014, the green and dark blue lines are identical.

So as you can see, after MKC's debut, MKX numbers dropped for a few months before the new one debuted and it jumped back up. So as I said, I should've added initially to my comment on XT5, but I still stand by what I said.

I could get numbers going back to MKX's debut in 2007 and I could argue that MKX is only now returning to previous levels (meaning its' numbers would be higher without MKC present), but I won't. I think Lincoln is stronger with the two crossovers side by side in the lineup, as they do appeal to a broader base than just the MKX.

I'd be interested to put together numbers on the Lexus NX/RX, as they're a much stronger brand. If I get a chance to this weekend, I'll put that together and see what happened.

---

As a side note, I can't recall if it was this thread or another, but here's the data/charts showing the sales difference between Lincoln/Cadillac:

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post #35 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 12:47 PM
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Re: Ford/Lincoln May 2017 Sales

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Originally Posted by Samesun View Post
As I explained in the MKX's case, the numbers may actually go up for XT5 with siblings. So everything is speculation. Why is this so difficult to understand? And in the end it's my opinion...please stop already. I know u want everything on this forum to be ford positive and let's sh*t on everything gm but I have a right to my opinion. And if you had read further, I may have to reconsider my stand on MKX/mkc sales numbers so my theory goes out the window.
I would challenge you to prove your typical insulting accusations, often after being called out, but you sir, are hardly worth it.

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post #36 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 05:19 PM
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Re: Ford/Lincoln May 2017 Sales

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samesun View Post
He has a theory and I called it speculation. My opinion and I stand by it. So if Lincoln adds another SUV, does it stand to reason that it wouldn't substantially increase Lincoln's customer base but just steal many sales from MKX/mkc? MKX has maintained or increased its yearly sales every year since about 2010 except for a slight drop the year mkc debuted then bounded back and closed 2016 with about 7k units above previous year making its highest sales ever...this w mkc as in house competition. So Lincoln substantially increased their customer base.
You are leaving out one very important point................ Market Size, the pie was growing; we are at or very near "peak-auto" the pie is no longer growing, any sales gain is coming at the expense of something else, be it internally or externally.

(rounded)
2010 11,500,000
2011 12,700,000
2012 14,400,000
2013 15,500,000
2014 16,400,000
2015 17,300,000
2016 17,500,000
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post #37 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 05:26 PM
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Re: Ford/Lincoln May 2017 Sales

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samesun View Post
He has a theory and I called it speculation. My opinion and I stand by it. So if Lincoln adds another SUV, does it stand to reason that it wouldn't substantially increase Lincoln's customer base but just steal many sales from MKX/mkc? MKX has maintained or increased its yearly sales every year since about 2010 except for a slight drop the year mkc debuted then bounded back and closed 2016 with about 7k units above previous year making its highest sales ever...this w mkc as in house competition. So Lincoln substantially increased their customer base.
I'll have to double check, but I think MKX's best sales year was its first back in 2007.

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post #38 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 05:40 PM
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Re: Ford/Lincoln May 2017 Sales

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Originally Posted by rmc523 View Post
I'll have to double check, but I think MKX's best sales year was its first back in 2007.
Correct

2006 - 859
2007 - 37,953
2008 - 29,076
2009 - 21,433
2010 - 21,932
2011 - 23,395
2012 - 25,107
2013 - 23,913
2014 - 23,995
2015 - 22,199
2016 - 30,967

2017 YTD - 13,027

13,027*2 = 26,054 + another 2500 for one more month since we are only on 5 sales wise is 28554 estimate for this year.
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post #39 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 05:59 PM
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Re: Ford/Lincoln May 2017 Sales

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Originally Posted by Andrew L View Post
Correct

2006 - 859
2007 - 37,953
2008 - 29,076
2009 - 21,433
2010 - 21,932
2011 - 23,395
2012 - 25,107
2013 - 23,913
2014 - 23,995
2015 - 22,199
2016 - 30,967

2017 YTD - 13,027

13,027*2 = 26,054 + another 2500 for one more month since we are only on 5 sales wise is 28554 estimate for this year.
I'd make that a 3500, as that was last years' December numbers for MKX. It's currently up on the year over last years' numbers, but it's been down for all but January. Hopefully it can reverse that trend and push past last year overall.
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post #40 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 09:57 PM
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Re: Ford/Lincoln May 2017 Sales

wanted to post (again) that FordAuthority has sales charts by model
tho only seems to be no more than 4 years...

...wonder if more could be dug-up with the Internet-WayBack site?


ps/edit @Samesun
the chart I augmented is only thru-May numbers

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Last edited by 2b2; 06-02-2017 at 10:02 PM.
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