Fusion/Fiesta/Taurus Officially Cancelled - Page 24 - Ford Inside News Community
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post #231 of 510 (permalink) Old 05-01-2018, 11:40 AM
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Re: Fusion/Fiesta/Taurus Officially Cancelled

With nearly 27 years of experience at Ford, I have never been more in the dark about pending products. I have also never been more uncertain about current leadership and their plan(s) going forward. Most of that of course is driven by industry changes forcing their hand, but is it really? It is my own personal opinion that a big factor in killing off these sedans, and no doubt future closing of plants and layoffs, is the convenient excuse to blame the customer, citing shift in demand. I also tend to believe that with those announced 16 new BEV’s that anything is possible, but far too soon to announce. Besides, it would conflate their justification for their actions in the next year or two. And let’s not forget the AV products that need to fit in somewhere. A mini revolution appears to have begun at Ford. This is quite ambitious and hardly lazy. How smart their strategy is, is anyone’s guess at this point.
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post #232 of 510 (permalink) Old 05-01-2018, 11:41 AM
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Re: Fusion/Fiesta/Taurus Officially Cancelled

But Ford will keep selling sedans in other markets that sell less like Europe.

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post #233 of 510 (permalink) Old 05-01-2018, 11:52 AM
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Re: Fusion/Fiesta/Taurus Officially Cancelled

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Originally Posted by Andrew L View Post
But Ford will keep selling sedans in other markets that sell less like Europe.
Yup, which supports the belief that their decisions are manufacturing based to appease the UAW, rather than customer demand based. Some HUGE cuts are coming. I predicted that much.
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post #234 of 510 (permalink) Old 05-01-2018, 12:18 PM
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Re: Fusion/Fiesta/Taurus Officially Cancelled

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseman View Post
I really don't see a way around it. Honestly, why continue to invest in platforms that simply won't sell in any numbers 8-12 years from now? You would have to sell considerably more vehicles over a shorter period of time to recoup investment. ICE platforms are dead men walking. Ford is smart to cut investment now and move on. Ford sells, what, less than 400k sedans a year in the US? Tesla could do that with 2 models if they could get production ramped, at a considerably higher ATP. Ford is still way behind the times on the electrical front (good lord, beaten to market by FCA? How shameful), regardless of what Wings claims. They have 1 plug-in, the Fusion (they already killed the C-MAx), which they're killing, and 1 BEV, the Focus, which is also dead, and of which Ford sells fewer in a year than Tesla sells in 3 days. If they're leading, they're definitely leading from behind.

Some times drastic measures are required from massive misjudging of the market. What an absolute disaster of planning. And, it's a shame about the Mach 1. I was hoping for something stunning like a low-slung shooting-brake or wagon, more of a slightly-downsized far-more evocative hi-po Flex, but apparently, according to Wings, it is a bloated Edge EV instead, soon to join the EQC, E-Tron, iX3, and I-Pace in the battle for generic BEV CUV styling (also note that Ford is entering into the fray, instead of Lincoln, again, a mind-numbing decision).

Who is leading the auto industry according by your criteria? Tesla? Ha, ha , ha, ha.... read this: https://www.carscoops.com/2018/04/te...cash-end-year/
Some affirmations from the article:
“Bloomberg ran the numbers and determined the automaker burns through more than $6,500 every minute. If that number is correct, the company goes through $390,000 every hour and $9,360,000 every day”
“That’s a massive number and the publication notes Tesla’s free cash flow has been negative for five consecutive quarters. The company has a tendency for its free cash flow to be negative but the rate of cash burn significantly increased in recent quarters”
“The massive outflow of cash means Tesla could run out of money before the end of the year”

The EV s will come, but the ICE vehicles will have the most important portion of the market for, at least, 20 Years.

Ford is making a big mistake killing all the cars in NA. The better choice could be keep , at least, one sedan (the more profitable of them, the Fusion) . Evidently, Wall Street pressure was strong enough to force Ford to cancel every car in its line up in order to save more money for the investors. The question is why Wall Street continue investing in Tesla , when everybody knows they cant make money building cars... because they don’t know how to make cars.
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post #235 of 510 (permalink) Old 05-01-2018, 12:40 PM
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Re: Fusion/Fiesta/Taurus Officially Cancelled

Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon lover View Post
16 BEVs? Really? Let me make a list of the nameplates Ford will have for 2020 in NA...

1- EcoSport
2- Focus Active
3- Baby Bronco
4- Escape
5- Edge
6- Mustang
7- Bronco
8- Explorer
9- Expedition
10- Mach 1
11- Ranger
12- F-series

13- Lincoln MKC (or whatever it will be renamed)
14- Lincoln Nautilus
15- Lincoln Aviator
16- Lincoln Navigator
17- Lincoln Continental

So... Ford needs to put some kind of electrified power plant in almost all its 17 nameplates for 2020 to achieve this goal.

P.S.: the future Ford line up looks even worse when we list and see what they will be selling in 2 years.... I still can’t believe it .
Ford has already announced that virtually every product will have a a hybrid/plug in hybrid available, in addition to BEV only models.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseman View Post
I really don't see a way around it. Honestly, why continue to invest in platforms that simply won't sell in any numbers 8-12 years from now? You would have to sell considerably more vehicles over a shorter period of time to recoup investment. ICE platforms are dead men walking. Ford is smart to cut investment now and move on. Ford sells, what, less than 400k sedans a year in the US? Tesla could do that with 2 models if they could get production ramped, at a considerably higher ATP. Ford is still way behind the times on the electrical front (good lord, beaten to market by FCA? How shameful), regardless of what Wings claims. They have 1 plug-in, the Fusion (they already killed the C-MAx), which they're killing, and 1 BEV, the Focus, which is also dead, and of which Ford sells fewer in a year than Tesla sells in 3 days. If they're leading, they're definitely leading from behind.

Some times drastic measures are required from massive misjudging of the market. What an absolute disaster of planning. And, it's a shame about the Mach 1. I was hoping for something stunning like a low-slung shooting-brake or wagon, more of a slightly-downsized far-more evocative hi-po Flex, but apparently, according to Wings, it is a bloated Edge EV instead, soon to join the EQC, E-Tron, iX3, and I-Pace in the battle for generic BEV CUV styling (also note that Ford is entering into the fray, instead of Lincoln, again, a mind-numbing decision).
How has Ford been beat to the market by FCA? Did I miss their electric announcement?

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post #236 of 510 (permalink) Old 05-01-2018, 01:20 PM
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Re: Fusion/Fiesta/Taurus Officially Cancelled

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Originally Posted by rmc523 View Post
Ford has already announced that virtually every product will have a a hybrid/plug in hybrid available, in addition to BEV only models.



How has Ford been beat to the market by FCA? Did I miss their electric announcement?
Dude, did you miss the memo......just announcing electrification products in the future, regardless of the fact that you have literally zero experience or cred in the past, puts you ahead of Ford. Don't cha know? Regardless of what wings says.
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post #237 of 510 (permalink) Old 05-01-2018, 01:36 PM
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Re: Fusion/Fiesta/Taurus Officially Cancelled

Quote:
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Dude, did you miss the memo......just announcing electrification products in the future, regardless of the fact that you have literally zero experience or cred in the past, puts you ahead of Ford. Don't cha know? Regardless of what wings says.
I didn't even know they had made an electrification announcement.
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post #238 of 510 (permalink) Old 05-01-2018, 02:24 PM
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Re: Fusion/Fiesta/Taurus Officially Cancelled

@2b2 You said the Focus sedan was spied testing in the US about 5 days before they canceled it...

I wonder if they're doing more testing on it, and will introduce a sportback variant much later? (2021/2022)
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post #239 of 510 (permalink) Old 05-01-2018, 03:15 PM
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Re: Fusion/Fiesta/Taurus Officially Cancelled

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseman View Post
I really don't see a way around it. Honestly, why continue to invest in platforms that simply won't sell in any numbers 8-12 years from now? You would have to sell considerably more vehicles over a shorter period of time to recoup investment. ICE platforms are dead men walking. Ford is smart to cut investment now and move on. Ford sells, what, less than 400k sedans a year in the US? Tesla could do that with 2 models if they could get production ramped, at a considerably higher ATP. Ford is still way behind the times on the electrical front (good lord, beaten to market by FCA? How shameful), regardless of what Wings claims. They have 1 plug-in, the Fusion (they already killed the C-MAx), which they're killing, and 1 BEV, the Focus, which is also dead, and of which Ford sells fewer in a year than Tesla sells in 3 days. If they're leading, they're definitely leading from behind.

Some times drastic measures are required from massive misjudging of the market. What an absolute disaster of planning. And, it's a shame about the Mach 1. I was hoping for something stunning like a low-slung shooting-brake or wagon, more of a slightly-downsized far-more evocative hi-po Flex, but apparently, according to Wings, it is a bloated Edge EV instead, soon to join the EQC, E-Tron, iX3, and I-Pace in the battle for generic BEV CUV styling (also note that Ford is entering into the fray, instead of Lincoln, again, a mind-numbing decision).
the issue is....

1) Ford has to develop cars, for the rest of world whether they are sold here or not.
2) all-Ford CUVs are based on car platforms where the Cars sell better than the CUVs (Except D3 and CD6)
3) it is hard to understand even with importing the vehicles from low-cost countries. that Ford is unable to make a profit on them.

What I think is happening is Ford is chasing Margins not profits. they Want 8% margins and they can only do that if they sell fewer cars. even if that results in fewer sales, market share, and profits
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post #240 of 510 (permalink) Old 05-01-2018, 04:34 PM
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Re: Fusion/Fiesta/Taurus Officially Cancelled

I think a lot of Fords decision came because Wall Street has been breathing down their neck to do something radical, killing all their cars is pretty radical. Also Farley said current Fusion customers will get “a great new product” and the automaker has “some really great ideas” for its replacement, which leads me to believe we may get the Mondeo wagon as an Outback like vehicle.
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