Fusion/Fiesta/Taurus Officially Cancelled - Page 30 - Ford Inside News Community
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post #291 of 510 (permalink) Old 05-06-2018, 04:53 PM
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Re: Fusion/Fiesta/Taurus Officially Cancelled

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Originally Posted by Bloggin View Post
Fords sedan sales is compounded. We have to take into account that Ford did not renew the Focus and Fusion on schedule with the leading competition, and that cost sales of those models as well. Which means Focus is about 50k low in sales compared with it's competition today, Fusion is abut 20k off due to the same reason before taking into account the model ending news. This loss has to do with what Ford has done to themselves.
Of course Ford has been playing the conversion from cars to Utilities for the past five years,
they've worked down from over 86,000 in 2013 to 595,000 last year, all the while replacing most of those sales with more Utilities and truck sales. What I'm showing is that the same thing will continue as Ford sells even more desirable products.

Quote:
Looking at the trucks the leader Tacoma is at 72k YTD, while Fords closest competitor in this segment would be the Colorado at 28k which is in line with the 120k annual sales estimate. However with the Focus Active, it really can't compare with the Subaru Crosstrek unless Ford offers a compatible AWD system for customers who actually buy the Crosstrek for a practical reason. What may happens is the Active and Escape will share Escape sales, with Focus customers moving to the new Civic, new Corolla, new Elantra, or new Cruze. But then again, Ford's focus is lower sales and higher pricing expecting 'insecure' customers to pay more an 'image upgrade'.
My source has indicated to me that Ford has planned 120K of Rangers in the first year and that they expect that to be conservative to actual market need.
Focus active walks in two segments, those who still want a car but who areopen to trying something different, it is not a true Crosstek competitor because it dosn't have to be and I would be very surprised if it doesn't pick up at least 60K in annualized sales.

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While Bronco will be more of a specialty model in the SUV segment which should be more around 60k, since off-roaders won't be giving up their Jeeps, but we have to wait and see what it actually ends up looking like. Best guess is that it will be a rather conservative Everest sibling.
Dead wrong on this.
Bronco is first of next Gen T6 Platform and will have everything that Gen 1 T6 Ranger currently lacks
The development of Bronco was done as a separate project by North America, the top hat is zero Everest.
(think Wrangler with a Ford twist and Ford DNA like Explorer.)
Quote:
But here is what the industry already knows is that current car consumers want to keep their car and may add an SUV. But when going electric, they want a lower center of gravity to benefit from the dramatically better driving dynamics, along with better aerodynamics and longer range. Which is why automakers trying to push consumers into higher riding EV SUVs will have low sales, while the lower the vehicle the better the sales. It's just that the industry is trying to spike the price by calling it an SUV, when consumers want a car.
Of course they are and for the most part, I recon it will work and in fact has been working for a while.
Consumers will switch from owning a car + SUV to near car crossover + SUV.

Quote:
Which is why we will see more vehicles like Nissan concept below, as automaker try to blend the SUVish styling to jusrify a price increase, with the lower center of gravity , better aerodynamics and better driving dynamics consumers want from an EV. Essentually a sedan or 5-door with larger wheels, but lowering the roofline as much as possible for aerodynics.

While others will offer a more conventional sedan as an EV with better aero, higher range, better driving dynamics, which will be a much easier sale, at lower cost at higher volumes. But needing to fill consumer demands, there will always be room for both designs, but the EV will give the sedan segment a big boost.



However, gone are the days when consumers want their EV to look like an ICE model. Automakers will need new designs for the EV to distance it from the combustion engine model, especially if they want 'clean' consumers to buy.
I think you're getting caught up in the breadth of change in the industry instead of
looking at where Ford intends to play, all the vehicles it has nominated so far are
agents of change in existing car plants, they are coming regardless of whether
we like it or not.
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Last edited by jpd80; 05-06-2018 at 08:57 PM.
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post #292 of 510 (permalink) Old 05-06-2018, 10:14 PM
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Re: Fusion/Fiesta/Taurus Officially Cancelled

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Originally Posted by wingsnut View Post
There is also a significant cost and complexity reduction to optimizing a CUV platform that does not need to compromise as a sedan too.
The platform for a sedan and CUV is minimal if not equal in production costs, it's the platform that both ride on that is the cost factor. Which is why automakers can use the car platform and put a CUV top hat on it, and charge $5k to $7k premium with most of that being increased margins. This is especially true of the 5 passenger cuvs. That is the driving force behind automakers pushing crossovers/CUVs on consumers.

But it is understandable for automakers to use the crossover premium to defer some of the initial EV costs, when volumes are very low.
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Last edited by Bloggin; 05-06-2018 at 10:45 PM.
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post #293 of 510 (permalink) Old 05-07-2018, 05:08 AM
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Re: Fusion/Fiesta/Taurus Officially Cancelled

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The platform for a sedan and CUV is minimal if not equal in production costs, it's the platform that both ride on that is the cost factor. Which is why automakers can use the car platform and put a CUV top hat on it, and charge $5k to $7k premium with most of that being increased margins. This is especially true of the 5 passenger cuvs. That is the driving force behind automakers pushing crossovers/CUVs on consumers.

But it is understandable for automakers to use the crossover premium to defer some of the initial EV costs, when volumes are very low.
Exactly, crossovers are not SUVs. As Focus Active / Crosstrek and others show us with clarity, many "crossovers" are just hatchbacks with suspension lift. Now, clearly, many have unique bodywork, but that is optional, and also optional is any changes to the platform as long as the underlying architecture supports AWD (though even THAT is becoming optional and FWD-only crossovers are starting to show up - see Kia Niro).

I remember a story from Mazda about the genesis of the very first CX-9 -- it was originally supposed to be a minivan, but then then found out in market testing that if they just have it a 2-box design and traditional doors, they would not only save the cost of sliding doors, but also be able to charge $4-6k more per car -- all going to the margin.
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post #294 of 510 (permalink) Old 05-07-2018, 08:29 AM
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Re: Fusion/Fiesta/Taurus Officially Cancelled

My point was that anytime you have to design toward several classes of vehicles, there absolutely will be compromise and additional cost and virtually no opportunity for optimization.
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post #295 of 510 (permalink) Old 05-07-2018, 08:37 AM
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Re: Fusion/Fiesta/Taurus Officially Cancelled

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Originally Posted by igor2 View Post
Exactly, crossovers are not SUVs. As Focus Active / Crosstrek and others show us with clarity, many "crossovers" are just hatchbacks with suspension lift. Now, clearly, many have unique bodywork, but that is optional, and also optional is any changes to the platform as long as the underlying architecture supports AWD (though even THAT is becoming optional and FWD-only crossovers are starting to show up - see Kia Niro).

I remember a story from Mazda about the genesis of the very first CX-9 -- it was originally supposed to be a minivan, but then then found out in market testing that if they just have it a 2-box design and traditional doors, they would not only save the cost of sliding doors, but also be able to charge $4-6k more per car -- all going to the margin.
Sometimes there are exceptions of course...I recall an article in Automotive News back when the very first Escape was introduced, about how Ford developed it as a true SUV vs a car. They pointed out how it had to endure the complete Ford Truck testing regiment and all, to be durable as a truck and endure trails/etc. Back then the lines between SUV and crossover were tightly drawn, unlike now, and Ford wanted to build on the truck legacy.
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post #296 of 510 (permalink) Old 05-07-2018, 08:49 AM
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Re: Fusion/Fiesta/Taurus Officially Cancelled

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My point was that anytime you have to design toward several classes of vehicles, there absolutely will be compromise and additional cost and virtually no opportunity for optimization.
Amazing to see a college student correct an experienced engineer.
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post #297 of 510 (permalink) Old 05-07-2018, 09:25 AM
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Re: Fusion/Fiesta/Taurus Officially Cancelled

@spudz64 Sportbacks are sedans with a suspension lift and an extremely practical trunk. I don't understand why many automakers didn't start copying this from Audi when almost everyone started copying the CLS after its release in 2004.

It's called EVOLUTION, automakers. How did you not see this one?
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post #298 of 510 (permalink) Old 05-07-2018, 08:07 PM
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Re: Fusion/Fiesta/Taurus Officially Cancelled

spamming from posting @ B0N
Quote:
Originally Posted by bzcat, on 07 May 2018
Ford is structuring Lincoln as part of the Chang'an Ford joint venture so there won't be any Lincoln factory per se. The setup is similar to SAIC GM which includes Chevy, Buick and Cadillac brands, and different from VW's apprach, which has FAW VW and FAW Audi as separate joint ventures for example.
The replacement for MKC will likely be the first Lincoln made in China but it will be coming from the same assembly line for the new Kuga.
And Ford just announced it will build Explorer in China so Aviator will probably follow soon after.


The 5 Lincoln models by 2022 seems pretty obvious...
1. MKC replacement
2. Next generation Nautilus
3. Aviator
4. Something based on Ford's short C ultility[/size]
5. C2 sedan to replace MKZ
I don't think Ford has made a decision yet on Continental. Probably because it hasn't made a decision on the next gen Taurus.
just-imho
they're going to run the current[OR Conti-door-]Continental + 'Zeplacement' together until they HAFTA decide about a n.g.Conti...
then if-they-do, it'll basically be a long-wlb variant [ie more diff than a version] of the cD6-Z2.
ChTaurus is just a distant 'tail' = not wagging any dog
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post #299 of 510 (permalink) Old 05-08-2018, 02:25 AM
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Re: Fusion/Fiesta/Taurus Officially Cancelled

Have any of you guys read this? If so, what are your thoughts?

http://www.autoextremist.com/current...free-fall.html

"...the more I’ve thought about it, the more it became very clear to me that Ford – at least certain Ford executives – have lost their frickin’ minds for walking away from the car market, especially with its very competitive Fusion..."
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Last edited by 2b2; 05-08-2018 at 02:39 AM. Reason: added blurb... 8-o
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post #300 of 510 (permalink) Old 05-08-2018, 04:13 AM
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Re: Fusion/Fiesta/Taurus Officially Cancelled

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Originally Posted by spudz64 View Post
Sometimes there are exceptions of course...I recall an article in Automotive News back when the very first Escape was introduced, about how Ford developed it as a true SUV vs a car. They pointed out how it had to endure the complete Ford Truck testing regiment and all, to be durable as a truck and endure trails/etc. Back then the lines between SUV and crossover were tightly drawn, unlike now, and Ford wanted to build on the truck legacy.
Of course exceptions exist. All Jeep crossovers are actually trail rated (optionally), and yes, Escape was pretty **** tough and reengineered the underlying FWD platform. But it's not necessarily so, and given that really what the market wants is AWD-optional tall riding Hatchbacks ... it seems this is becoming less and less important. As a response the post abvoe about how CUV platforms will rise costs.
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