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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-10-2018, 10:12 PM
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Re: Ford Statement on Business Transformation

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Originally Posted by AM222 View Post
Aside from plant shutdowns, I read somewhere that GM is shifting from hybrid to EVs. Volt will get discontinued while the Bolt EV lives on.

It's a victim of the trade war. The plan was to build high profit SUVs/ trucks in US plants and import the lower profit Focus. Then Trump happened, so plans for the US Focus was shelved.
The elimination of the tariffs in China were already negotiated to end by 2020, from 25% to Zero. But trump happened, lacking diplomacy and fair negotiation skills necessary for cooperation with other world leaders, tried to force China to do what he wanted, but couldn't fire China. Like he does in his personal business. With the negative impact on US trade much worse than it was before he took action. For automakers who have already stated that the $1 Billion in extra costs for steel each, is a nut they can't overcome and still manufacturer the same cars in the US. That does not even cover the additional cost on parts sourced from China. That comes right out of the minimal profits on cars, and threw them in the deep, deep red. And there is NO sign of his trade war ending anytime soon, auto manufacturers have to plan years out and for the long term, because not only can they not afford to buy the steel they need from China, they have to invest in building plants at a quicker pace in China for long term survival, and away from his impact on their bottom line. He just pulled the rug from under the US auto market and made the best option for global manufacturers, to make China their primary manufacturing base...and they are all building new plants today.

Plans to build in the US, using US work force and import to China has been scrapped. Lincoln can't get production going in China fast enough, because every sale of a US made vehicle has to have the margin of a consumer brand vehicle. Even if auto manufacturers tried to source all those parts from the US, it would take years to get suppliers up to speed, while the added costs would cost consumers much more for the same product. Which would mean overpriced products, less sales, lower production needs, lower supplier needs, less employees......there is no up side to this cycle.

He just needs to get out of the way, let China follow the plan already negotiated by the US(before trump happened) that enabled stability and progressive profitability for all concerned long term globally.

Again, there is no up side to this nightmare he has created for the US automakers and US autoworkers and suppliers. Because once the product is manufactured in China where it's cheaper, so will all the parts be made because they are also cheaper, with suppliers demanding less profits/lower margins and higher volume.

But the interesting thing here is that automakers needed to shed lots of manufacturing weight(facilities/workers/suppliers) to prepare for the leaner EV production, so his actions are actually pushing US automakers into EVs faster than they wanted. But clearly not what he wanted....

Last edited by Bloggin; 12-10-2018 at 10:15 PM.
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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-11-2018, 12:55 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Ford Statement on Business Transformation

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Originally Posted by Bloggin View Post
The elimination of the tariffs in China were already negotiated to end by 2020, from 25% to Zero. But trump happened, lacking diplomacy and fair negotiation skills necessary for cooperation with other world leaders, tried to force China to do what he wanted, but couldn't fire China. Like he does in his personal business. With the negative impact on US trade much worse than it was before he took action. For automakers who have already stated that the $1 Billion in extra costs for steel each, is a nut they can't overcome and still manufacturer the same cars in the US. That does not even cover the additional cost on parts sourced from China. That comes right out of the minimal profits on cars, and threw them in the deep, deep red. And there is NO sign of his trade war ending anytime soon, auto manufacturers have to plan years out and for the long term, because not only can they not afford to buy the steel they need from China, they have to invest in building plants at a quicker pace in China for long term survival, and away from his impact on their bottom line. He just pulled the rug from under the US auto market and made the best option for global manufacturers, to make China their primary manufacturing base...and they are all building new plants today.

Plans to build in the US, using US work force and import to China has been scrapped. Lincoln can't get production going in China fast enough, because every sale of a US made vehicle has to have the margin of a consumer brand vehicle. Even if auto manufacturers tried to source all those parts from the US, it would take years to get suppliers up to speed, while the added costs would cost consumers much more for the same product. Which would mean overpriced products, less sales, lower production needs, lower supplier needs, less employees......there is no up side to this cycle.

He just needs to get out of the way, let China follow the plan already negotiated by the US(before trump happened) that enabled stability and progressive profitability for all concerned long term globally.

Again, there is no up side to this nightmare he has created for the US automakers and US autoworkers and suppliers. Because once the product is manufactured in China where it's cheaper, so will all the parts be made because they are also cheaper, with suppliers demanding less profits/lower margins and higher volume.

But the interesting thing here is that automakers needed to shed lots of manufacturing weight(facilities/workers/suppliers) to prepare for the leaner EV production, so his actions are actually pushing US automakers into EVs faster than they wanted. But clearly not what he wanted....
Yup, and the critics condemned the Mexico-Canada deal leading into it as well, which now is being praised. It's simply amazing to me how often Trump's critics are wrong, on every single prediction, assumption and accusation they make against him. Quite literally EVERY single time. The odds of that are almost impossible, yet there they are, blinded by Trump hate and logic flies out the window. Sure, China is a tougher nut to crack, but if I were a betting man, I would not bet with the critics. Trump's instincts are quite good.
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Last edited by wingsnut; 12-11-2018 at 12:57 AM.
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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-11-2018, 04:13 AM
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Re: Ford Statement on Business Transformation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloggin View Post
The elimination of the tariffs in China were already negotiated to end by 2020, from 25% to Zero. But trump happened, lacking diplomacy and fair negotiation skills necessary for cooperation with other world leaders, tried to force China to do what he wanted, but couldn't fire China. Like he does in his personal business. With the negative impact on US trade much worse than it was before he took action. For automakers who have already stated that the $1 Billion in extra costs for steel each, is a nut they can't overcome and still manufacturer the same cars in the US. That does not even cover the additional cost on parts sourced from China. That comes right out of the minimal profits on cars, and threw them in the deep, deep red. And there is NO sign of his trade war ending anytime soon, auto manufacturers have to plan years out and for the long term, because not only can they not afford to buy the steel they need from China, they have to invest in building plants at a quicker pace in China for long term survival, and away from his impact on their bottom line. He just pulled the rug from under the US auto market and made the best option for global manufacturers, to make China their primary manufacturing base...and they are all building new plants today.

Plans to build in the US, using US work force and import to China has been scrapped. Lincoln can't get production going in China fast enough, because every sale of a US made vehicle has to have the margin of a consumer brand vehicle. Even if auto manufacturers tried to source all those parts from the US, it would take years to get suppliers up to speed, while the added costs would cost consumers much more for the same product. Which would mean overpriced products, less sales, lower production needs, lower supplier needs, less employees......there is no up side to this cycle.

He just needs to get out of the way, let China follow the plan already negotiated by the US(before trump happened) that enabled stability and progressive profitability for all concerned long term globally.

Again, there is no up side to this nightmare he has created for the US automakers and US autoworkers and suppliers. Because once the product is manufactured in China where it's cheaper, so will all the parts be made because they are also cheaper, with suppliers demanding less profits/lower margins and higher volume.

But the interesting thing here is that automakers needed to shed lots of manufacturing weight(facilities/workers/suppliers) to prepare for the leaner EV production, so his actions are actually pushing US automakers into EVs faster than they wanted. But clearly not what he wanted....

Results of Trump´s policies: the automakers, not only the american automakers, the european automakers that have assembly plants in USA too, cant export their americans made products to China. All of them need to build new factories in China to made there the products they are now manufacturing in USA. The final result is few plants working in USA and less workers hired. GM is only the first automaker that will reduce the numbers of workers in USA. Sure others will folow GM.

This, the Trump´s tariff and comercial war with China, is causing an increase in the establishment of automobile plants in China, with an increase in the number of workers employed in that industry in China. Not bad at all for an american president ...


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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-11-2018, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloggin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AM222 View Post
Aside from plant shutdowns, I read somewhere that GM is shifting from hybrid to EVs. Volt will get discontinued while the Bolt EV lives on.

It's a victim of the trade war. The plan was to build high profit SUVs/ trucks in US plants and import the lower profit Focus. Then Trump happened, so plans for the US Focus was shelved.
The elimination of the tariffs in China were already negotiated to end by 2020, from 25% to Zero. But trump happened, lacking diplomacy and fair negotiation skills necessary for cooperation with other world leaders, tried to force China to do what he wanted, but couldn't fire China. Like he does in his personal business. With the negative impact on US trade much worse than it was before he took action. For automakers who have already stated that the $1 Billion in extra costs for steel each, is a nut they can't overcome and still manufacturer the same cars in the US. That does not even cover the additional cost on parts sourced from China. That comes right out of the minimal profits on cars, and threw them in the deep, deep red. And there is NO sign of his trade war ending anytime soon, auto manufacturers have to plan years out and for the long term, because not only can they not afford to buy the steel they need from China, they have to invest in building plants at a quicker pace in China for long term survival, and away from his impact on their bottom line. He just pulled the rug from under the US auto market and made the best option for global manufacturers, to make China their primary manufacturing base...and they are all building new plants today.

Plans to build in the US, using US work force and import to China has been scrapped. Lincoln can't get production going in China fast enough, because every sale of a US made vehicle has to have the margin of a consumer brand vehicle. Even if auto manufacturers tried to source all those parts from the US, it would take years to get suppliers up to speed, while the added costs would cost consumers much more for the same product. Which would mean overpriced products, less sales, lower production needs, lower supplier needs, less employees......there is no up side to this cycle.

He just needs to get out of the way, let China follow the plan already negotiated by the US(before trump happened) that enabled stability and progressive profitability for all concerned long term globally.

Again, there is no up side to this nightmare he has created for the US automakers and US autoworkers and suppliers. Because once the product is manufactured in China where it's cheaper, so will all the parts be made because they are also cheaper, with suppliers demanding less profits/lower margins and higher volume.

But the interesting thing here is that automakers needed to shed lots of manufacturing weight(facilities/workers/suppliers) to prepare for the leaner EV production, so his actions are actually pushing US automakers into EVs faster than they wanted. But clearly not what he wanted....
You have a link for your statement that China was going to drop tarrifs to zero in 2020? Google doesn't.
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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-11-2018, 09:38 PM
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Re: Ford Statement on Business Transformation

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Originally Posted by SP1966 View Post
You have a link for your statement that China was going to drop tarrifs to zero in 2020? Google doesn't.
I posted that a while back when this whole nightmare started. It's either Business News or Wall Street...one of the business publications. But it's no secret and China was already in the process, tariffs were already lowered to I think 10% before trump got in the way and now they are up to 40%. China had already announced their plans to Zero the tariffs along with lifting other restrictions, like what they have already done with the shared ownership of foreign companies in China for 2018, 2019 had lower tariffs and other restrictions removed, then in 2020, tariffs down to Zero. Even China explained that it all could not happen at the same time, while trying to maintain economic stability and growth in China longer term. But trump is impatient and reactionary, along with not understanding the complexities of global manufacturing and economics..... or geography for that matter.

Remember this from earlier last week?

Following a summit on trade in Buenos Aires earlier this month, President Trump tweeted that China agreed to "reduce and remove" tariffs on imported American-made cars, something China did not confirm at the time.

Even news today that state that "China to cut tariffs on U.S. autos to 15 percent, Trump official says"

Has to be followed by: Washington still had not received documentation nor timing details of the tariff reduction, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

This is just trump forcing someone in his office to get a story out as if there is progress, when there is none and it's obvious that he can't fix the problem, without admitting he was wrong....and roll back all his threats....but it's doubtful that will happen unless he blames someone other than China for his screw-up. And the ONLY parties that are hurt by his actions are US based manufacturers. China is not bothered much at all, because the manufacturers are coming to them, building plants, employing their people, improving their economy, making China stronger, because trump made it happen.

Before trump, when two world leaders came to an understanding, there was a press conference with both parties either siting next to each other or standing, or shaking hands in agreement of the understanding. But today, world leaders can't stand to be in the same space with trump, let along shake his hand. And China has no reason to drop the tariffs, since the negative impact is on the US, with the situation created by trump.

Now his party is trying to force GM to make EVs in the US, when they don't support EV production in the US while at the same time trump wants to eliminate all financial incentives for EV production and sales in the US. Tesla is the ONLY American auto manufacturer that invested heavily and is building high volume EVs in the US at a profit, and he wants to remove incentives on EV sales. So like the rest of the auto industry, they are ALL racing as fast as they can to build EV manufacturing and battery manufacturing plants in China and the rest of the world that supports the future of transportation.....but not in the US.
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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-12-2018, 02:27 AM
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Re: Ford Statement on Business Transformation

Protectionist policies never work. Never. The american autoindustry will be destroyed for the Trump´s administration.

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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-12-2018, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Ford Statement on Business Transformation

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Originally Posted by Bloggin View Post
I posted that a while back when this whole nightmare started. It's either Business News or Wall Street...one of the business publications. But it's no secret and China was already in the process, tariffs were already lowered to I think 10% before trump got in the way and now they are up to 40%. China had already announced their plans to Zero the tariffs along with lifting other restrictions, like what they have already done with the shared ownership of foreign companies in China for 2018, 2019 had lower tariffs and other restrictions removed, then in 2020, tariffs down to Zero. Even China explained that it all could not happen at the same time, while trying to maintain economic stability and growth in China longer term. But trump is impatient and reactionary, along with not understanding the complexities of global manufacturing and economics..... or geography for that matter.

Remember this from earlier last week?

Following a summit on trade in Buenos Aires earlier this month, President Trump tweeted that China agreed to "reduce and remove" tariffs on imported American-made cars, something China did not confirm at the time.

Even news today that state that "China to cut tariffs on U.S. autos to 15 percent, Trump official says"

Has to be followed by: Washington still had not received documentation nor timing details of the tariff reduction, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

This is just trump forcing someone in his office to get a story out as if there is progress, when there is none and it's obvious that he can't fix the problem, without admitting he was wrong....and roll back all his threats....but it's doubtful that will happen unless he blames someone other than China for his screw-up. And the ONLY parties that are hurt by his actions are US based manufacturers. China is not bothered much at all, because the manufacturers are coming to them, building plants, employing their people, improving their economy, making China stronger, because trump made it happen.

Before trump, when two world leaders came to an understanding, there was a press conference with both parties either siting next to each other or standing, or shaking hands in agreement of the understanding. But today, world leaders can't stand to be in the same space with trump, let along shake his hand. And China has no reason to drop the tariffs, since the negative impact is on the US, with the situation created by trump.

Now his party is trying to force GM to make EVs in the US, when they don't support EV production in the US while at the same time trump wants to eliminate all financial incentives for EV production and sales in the US. Tesla is the ONLY American auto manufacturer that invested heavily and is building high volume EVs in the US at a profit, and he wants to remove incentives on EV sales. So like the rest of the auto industry, they are ALL racing as fast as they can to build EV manufacturing and battery manufacturing plants in China and the rest of the world that supports the future of transportation.....but not in the US.
Bloggin,
SP asked a simple question about a link to back your remark about Zero Tariffs, and you failed to provide it, and instead went on about your opinions on style over substance. This is nothing new, it’s what the media thrives on every day, all day – style over substance. The substance that you and the media avoid in this case, is of course to better this country through fair trade – something that we are winning at. Trump’s style is well known to be verbose and inflated to extremes, but so what, he is an accomplished deal maker his whole life who has been saying the same things about what is best for this country, since the 80’s. Typically, so do politicians, who then fail to do them. The people who voted for Trump know this, and agree with his politics. People upset by style and words and tweets, are properly called angry snowflakes. If this upsets you, maybe it should. Although you will no doubt never get over it, that’s too bad. He won the election fair and square, in a land slide actually, and not because of Russia. What a ruse that so many fall for. This country was in a coma before Trump showed up, now it is hitting on all cylinders in less than two freaking years, and the next 6 years will be like nitrous was injected. Amazingly, he did all this, even though democrats obstruct his every move.

Capitalism and fair trade. That is what will continue to propagate the success of this country…..not a government that chokes growth through massive taxation and regulation, to support their own needs.

And BTW, Ford’s small cost of temporary tariff increases is nothing compared to the billions they will save due to lowered taxes and the un-choking of so many regulations. Again, substance over style.

I digress.
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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-12-2018, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Ford Statement on Business Transformation

This is for you bloggin,

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-tweeted-about



Tariff's changed from 40% to 15%

But I bet Trump is not done with China and the years of unfair trade just yet. Stay tuned.

Substance over style!!!

Love it
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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-12-2018, 05:49 PM
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Re: Ford Statement on Business Transformation

Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon lover View Post
Protectionist policies never work. Never. The american autoindustry will be destroyed for the Trump´s administration.
Protectionist policies are never good if they are the end, not the means to an end, on that I agree. When you are the top consumer economy in the world you can use tariffs as a cudgel to force other countries to treat your products equally. I have no issue with what Trump has done with regard to tariffs so far with the exception of steel tariffs. I understand the logic that a country like ours needs to have it's own steel industry, it truly is a defense issue. Still, it is damaging to many industries so I would think government subsidies may have been a better route.

So far, all the drama aside, I think Trump has done well, far better than expected!
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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-12-2018, 06:12 PM
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Re: Ford Statement on Business Transformation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloggin View Post
I posted that a while back when this whole nightmare started. It's either Business News or Wall Street...one of the business publications. But it's no secret and China was already in the process, tariffs were already lowered to I think 10% before trump got in the way and now they are up to 40%. China had already announced their plans to Zero the tariffs along with lifting other restrictions, like what they have already done with the shared ownership of foreign companies in China for 2018, 2019 had lower tariffs and other restrictions removed, then in 2020, tariffs down to Zero. Even China explained that it all could not happen at the same time, while trying to maintain economic stability and growth in China longer term. But trump is impatient and reactionary, along with not understanding the complexities of global manufacturing and economics..... or geography for that matter.

Remember this from earlier last week?

Following a summit on trade in Buenos Aires earlier this month, President Trump tweeted that China agreed to "reduce and remove" tariffs on imported American-made cars, something China did not confirm at the time.

Even news today that state that "China to cut tariffs on U.S. autos to 15 percent, Trump official says"

Has to be followed by: Washington still had not received documentation nor timing details of the tariff reduction, the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

This is just trump forcing someone in his office to get a story out as if there is progress, when there is none and it's obvious that he can't fix the problem, without admitting he was wrong....and roll back all his threats....but it's doubtful that will happen unless he blames someone other than China for his screw-up. And the ONLY parties that are hurt by his actions are US based manufacturers. China is not bothered much at all, because the manufacturers are coming to them, building plants, employing their people, improving their economy, making China stronger, because trump made it happen.

Before trump, when two world leaders came to an understanding, there was a press conference with both parties either siting next to each other or standing, or shaking hands in agreement of the understanding. But today, world leaders can't stand to be in the same space with trump, let along shake his hand. And China has no reason to drop the tariffs, since the negative impact is on the US, with the situation created by trump.

Now his party is trying to force GM to make EVs in the US, when they don't support EV production in the US while at the same time trump wants to eliminate all financial incentives for EV production and sales in the US. Tesla is the ONLY American auto manufacturer that invested heavily and is building high volume EVs in the US at a profit, and he wants to remove incentives on EV sales. So like the rest of the auto industry, they are ALL racing as fast as they can to build EV manufacturing and battery manufacturing plants in China and the rest of the world that supports the future of transportation.....but not in the US.
Sorry, I don't buy that at all. If China had already agreed to drop tariffs to zero on imported autos the media would be all over that and rightly bashing Trump for messing it up. When they announced they'd be lowering their tariffs to 15% the media would be having an orgasm live on TV bashing Trump for causing them not to drop it to zero.

Trump derangement syndrome is real, but sadly there is no cream for it yet.
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