Ford, VW prepare powerhouse alliance on autonomous, electric vehicles - Page 3 - Ford Inside News Community
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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 02:35 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Ford, VW prepare powerhouse alliance on autonomous, electric vehicles

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Originally Posted by germeezy1 View Post
ford continues to chase a fools errand, and thrust headlong into the rabbit hole of electrification. It is almost as if no one realizes how far ahead tesla is, and how far away they are from sustained profitability. It is going to take in the magnitude collectively of over 100 billion to catch tesla, and when you do welcome to the world of no roi because ford will never be able to ask for tesla pricing.
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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 03:31 AM
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Re: Ford, VW prepare powerhouse alliance on autonomous, electric vehicles

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I think you have it backwards, Bloggin. Ford comes out ahead because electrics are barely profitable to unprofitable at this juncture, while trucks are wildly profitable. Further, because of the physics involved, truck will be the last lineup of vehicles to go full EV. It just takes too big of a pack at this point to economically switch to EV. There will be some small players like Rivian turning out very expensive pseudo-trucks with one-size fits all skateboards, but trucks require a far more modular approach to fit 5.5,6.5 and 8' beds with reg cabs, super cabs, crew cabs and cab only setups. Rivian's platform can't do that.


So, trucks will take a while. Because of that, FORD continues to reap big profits on trucks while it transitions to EV. Further, it reduces costs by spreading costs across a greater number of vehicles because VW wants to use their platforms, increasing their profitability. What strikes me as very interesting is that Ford has essentially said they aren't interested in MEB. Part of me makes me think that Ford may keep a toe in the EU pond to sell trucks and maybe one MEB car, while working on making an exit and focusing on China and the US.



I suspect the opposite you are saying.... the F-series will be the first Electric truck in America, just because is so profitable that Ford cant assume not to be the first in this market.


About the European Union, Ford will not leave this region. The perfect time to do it was the 2019 first half. Rigth now, Ford is renewind the european line-up to adapt it to the european tastes. The new Puma is the perfect example: a little and atractive crossover with many levels of electrification. The Explorer PHEV is another example, too. And Im sure Ford will replace the slow selling Galaxie/S-Max with another crossover with hybrid and electric powerplants. Ford is preparing to figth hard here.

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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 03:35 AM
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Re: Ford, VW prepare powerhouse alliance on autonomous, electric vehicles

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Originally Posted by germeezy1 View Post
Ford continues to chase a fools errand, and thrust headlong into the rabbit hole of electrification. It is almost as if no one realizes how far ahead Tesla is, and how far away they are from sustained profitability. It is going to take in the magnitude collectively of over 100 BILLION to catch Tesla, and when you do welcome to the world of no ROI because Ford will never be able to ask for Tesla pricing.



Tesla rigth now....









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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 11:50 AM
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Re: Ford, VW prepare powerhouse alliance on autonomous, electric vehicles

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I suspect the opposite you are saying.... the F-series will be the first Electric truck in America, just because is so profitable that Ford cant assume not to be the first in this market.


About the European Union, Ford will not leave this region. The perfect time to do it was the 2019 first half. Rigth now, Ford is renewind the european line-up to adapt it to the european tastes. The new Puma is the perfect example: a little and atractive crossover with many levels of electrification. The Explorer PHEV is another example, too. And Im sure Ford will replace the slow selling Galaxie/S-Max with another crossover with hybrid and electric powerplants. Ford is preparing to figth hard here.



Today Ford is confirming this.... new crossover to replace the S-Max, Galaxie and Mondeo.... and Mondeo!


https://www.carscoops.com/2019/07/fo...ubaru-outback/

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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 12:37 PM
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Re: Ford, VW prepare powerhouse alliance on autonomous, electric vehicles

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I suspect the opposite you are saying.... the F-series will be the first Electric truck in America, just because is so profitable that Ford cant assume not to be the first in this market.
F-150 should be the first electric pickup, yes. That's not what he was saying though. He mean the entire lineup of available trucks will be the last segment to go full EV, not just an optional model/trim.

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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
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I suspect the opposite you are saying.... the F-series will be the first Electric truck in America, just because is so profitable that Ford cant assume not to be the first in this market.


About the European Union, Ford will not leave this region. The perfect time to do it was the 2019 first half. Rigth now, Ford is renewind the european line-up to adapt it to the european tastes. The new Puma is the perfect example: a little and atractive crossover with many levels of electrification. The Explorer PHEV is another example, too. And Im sure Ford will replace the slow selling Galaxie/S-Max with another crossover with hybrid and electric powerplants. Ford is preparing to figth hard here.



Today Ford is confirming this.... new crossover to replace the S-Max, Galaxie and Mondeo.... and Mondeo!


https://www.carscoops.com/2019/07/fo...ubaru-outback/

...Ford is slashing jobs and investment in the EU. Did you watch the Grand Tour’s funeral for a Ford? That is the future. Ford will slowly unwind its contracts and positions. Too little profit and too unstable politically. Each little fiefdom wants its own set of rules, taxes, favorites, etc. Too much overhead for low margin cars.
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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 09:09 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Ford, VW prepare powerhouse alliance on autonomous, electric vehicles

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I suspect the opposite you are saying.... the F-series will be the first Electric truck in America, just because is so profitable that Ford cant assume not to be the first in this market.


About the European Union, Ford will not leave this region. The perfect time to do it was the 2019 first half. Rigth now, Ford is renewind the european line-up to adapt it to the european tastes. The new Puma is the perfect example: a little and atractive crossover with many levels of electrification. The Explorer PHEV is another example, too. And Im sure Ford will replace the slow selling Galaxie/S-Max with another crossover with hybrid and electric power-plants. Ford is preparing to figth hard here.
Whatever Ford produces as an F150 BEV, large profits will surely not follow it. It will be a solution that allows them to test the yet unknown consumer interest, a test bed if you will. One can only guess wildly as to the costs or amortization of what is basically building a small start-up company within their company, including all the engineering and tooling. I might bet that they barely breaking even. Which alone is far better than the industry. Real margins will come with time, volumes, alliances, sustainability, etc.
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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 03:49 AM
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Re: Ford, VW prepare powerhouse alliance on autonomous, electric vehicles

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Originally Posted by mooseman View Post
...Ford is slashing jobs and investment in the EU. Did you watch the Grand Tours funeral for a Ford? That is the future. Ford will slowly unwind its contracts and positions. Too little profit and too unstable politically. Each little fiefdom wants its own set of rules, taxes, favorites, etc. Too much overhead for low margin cars.

Ford is adapting its business to the market in EU. Is cutting excess production capacity, cutting jobs and making aliance with other automaker (VW) to improve its line up here. Nothing that all automakers have ever done in their lives . Even the marvelous Tesla () cut jobs early 2019 https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/18/b...usk/index.html


Ford decided to continue in Europe, and is making the decisions to return to profitability. The Ford of Europe line up is taking shape:

-Gone are the slow selling people movers (B-Max, C-Max and soon the S-Max and Galaxie) and the "big" sedan (Mondeo).
-There are a new "high ride" (Active) version for the Ka+, Fiesta and Focus.
-There are new crossovers (Puma, 2021 Fusion crossover)
-New SUVs (new Kuga, Explorer and , almost sure, the Bronco and Baby Bronco).
-New electrified (Hybrid and PHEV) powerplants, next year, for Focus, Fiesta, Puma, Explorer, Kuga.
-New EV in 2021 (Mach E Mustang inspired crossover).
-New EV, possible a traditional hatch, on VWs MEB for the next 2 or 3 years, and another under discussion.

Is this a moribund automaker?

And about Grand Tours funeral for Ford, I thought that program was already buried! If not, let someone do it, please!



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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 09:42 AM
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Re: Ford, VW prepare powerhouse alliance on autonomous, electric vehicles

The F-150 plug in is not meant for huge MPG numbers. It will get better gas mileage, and satisfy some customers for that alone. The main benefit will be the ability to generate power at a worksite for tools etc.

"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."
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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019, 05:28 PM
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Re: Ford, VW prepare powerhouse alliance on autonomous, electric vehicles

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Originally Posted by falcon lover View Post
Ford is adapting its business to the market in EU. Is cutting excess production capacity, cutting jobs and making aliance with other automaker (VW) to improve its line up here. Nothing that all automakers have ever done in their lives . Even the marvelous Tesla () cut jobs early 2019 https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/18/b...usk/index.html


Ford decided to continue in Europe, and is making the decisions to return to profitability. The Ford of Europe line up is taking shape:

-Gone are the slow selling people movers (B-Max, C-Max and soon the S-Max and Galaxie) and the "big" sedan (Mondeo).
-There are a new "high ride" (Active) version for the Ka+, Fiesta and Focus.
-There are new crossovers (Puma, 2021 Fusion crossover)
-New SUVs (new Kuga, Explorer and , almost sure, the Bronco and Baby Bronco).
-New electrified (Hybrid and PHEV) powerplants, next year, for Focus, Fiesta, Puma, Explorer, Kuga.
-New EV in 2021 (Mach E Mustang inspired crossover).
-New EV, possible a traditional hatch, on VWs MEB for the next 2 or 3 years, and another under discussion.

Is this a moribund automaker?

And about Grand Tours funeral for Ford, I thought that program was already buried! If not, let someone do it, please!


...I appreciate your optimism.
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