Ford, VW prepare powerhouse alliance on autonomous, electric vehicles - Ford Inside News Community
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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
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Ford, VW prepare powerhouse alliance on autonomous, electric vehicles

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...es/1695632001/

Ford Motor Co. and autonomous-driving software company Argo AI are nearing agreements with Volkswagen AG to partner on electric and self-driving vehicles that would bind two of the world's largest automakers in a transatlantic alliance on two of the most expensive pieces of a rapidly changing global auto industry.

The proposed alliance would also tie VW to Argo as the Pittsburgh-based start-up company's second investor and the second company to use its software to deploy self-driving vehicles. Argo would be able to test and launch in Europe through VW.

If approved by Ford's board this week and Volkswagen's board Thursday, the companies are expected to officially announce the new partnership details Friday. The deal could create one of the largest and most robust alliances on electric and autonomous vehicles seen yet from major automakers; Ford and Volkswagen sold roughly a combined 17 million vehicles globally last year, roughly 21% of the market.

"Both companies get scale, both get savings," said Sam Abuelsamid, an automotive technology analyst for Navigant Research, adding that the partnership indicated VW saw progress in Argo that it likely didn't see in other companies. "If you can start to combine some of that cost and share some of that technology, you can get more volume out of fewer platforms. You have the potential to save an enormous amount of money in development costs."

Two sources with knowledge of the deal said the companies have negotiated for VW to share its MEB electric-vehicle platform with Ford.Meanwhile, VW would get access to Argo's self-driving software and the data and learning Ford and Argo have gathered to-date, along with a minority stake in the start-up, and a seat on Argo's board. Ford currently has a majority stake in Argo and two seats on the board.

Argo would absorb VW's Munich-based Autonomous Intelligent Driving team, called AID, which has acted as an urban autonomous-driving technology supplier for the Volkswagen Group, sources said. Collaboration there would effectively create a new autonomous vehicle powerhouse as Ford, Argo and VW share data, expertise and geographic reach as the auto companies ready to deploy their first autonomous vehicles.

More at link.....

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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Ford, VW prepare powerhouse alliance on autonomous, electric vehicles

Can't recall a recent story well enough to google it, perhaps someone knows, but there was a local government that insisted people cut their inter-city emissions, so people started taking Uber and Lift rides....which actually increased the miles driven. That same local government will soon demand that ride share is BEV only. No over-reach going on there.
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by wingsnut View Post
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...es/1695632001/

Ford Motor Co. and autonomous-driving software company Argo AI are nearing agreements with Volkswagen AG to partner on electric and self-driving vehicles that would bind two of the world's largest automakers in a transatlantic alliance on two of the most expensive pieces of a rapidly changing global auto industry.

The proposed alliance would also tie VW to Argo as the Pittsburgh-based start-up company's second investor and the second company to use its software to deploy self-driving vehicles. Argo would be able to test and launch in Europe through VW.

If approved by Ford's board this week and Volkswagen's board Thursday, the companies are expected to officially announce the new partnership details Friday. The deal could create one of the largest and most robust alliances on electric and autonomous vehicles seen yet from major automakers; Ford and Volkswagen sold roughly a combined 17 million vehicles globally last year, roughly 21% of the market.

"Both companies get scale, both get savings," said Sam Abuelsamid, an automotive technology analyst for Navigant Research, adding that the partnership indicated VW saw progress in Argo that it likely didn't see in other companies. "If you can start to combine some of that cost and share some of that technology, you can get more volume out of fewer platforms. You have the potential to save an enormous amount of money in development costs."

Two sources with knowledge of the deal said the companies have negotiated for VW to share its MEB electric-vehicle platform with Ford.Meanwhile, VW would get access to Argo's self-driving software and the data and learning Ford and Argo have gathered to-date, along with a minority stake in the start-up, and a seat on Argo's board. Ford currently has a majority stake in Argo and two seats on the board.

Argo would absorb VW's Munich-based Autonomous Intelligent Driving team, called AID, which has acted as an urban autonomous-driving technology supplier for the Volkswagen Group, sources said. Collaboration there would effectively create a new autonomous vehicle powerhouse as Ford, Argo and VW share data, expertise and geographic reach as the auto companies ready to deploy their first autonomous vehicles.

More at link.....
...at first I was a bit wary of the tie-up, given the outright unethical behavior of VW in many instances, but I think Ford would come out of this deal as the big winner. Access to MEB at almost no cost would be huge.
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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-10-2019, 11:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Ford, VW prepare powerhouse alliance on autonomous, electric vehicles

I am scratching my head as to what Ford has planned while partnering with the likes of Rivian and now VW for BEV platforms, when they have their own that are developed quite well so far. Must be future products that are about 5 years out.

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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 01:23 AM
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I am scratching my head as to what Ford has planned while partnering with the likes of Rivian and now VW for BEV platforms, when they have their own that are developed quite well so far. Must be future products that are about 5 years out.
Nope...they will be building cars on top of the VW platform in 3Y or less. Ford is also giving them the truck platform as part of the deal...
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 02:59 AM
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Re: Ford, VW prepare powerhouse alliance on autonomous, electric vehicles

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingsnut View Post
Can't recall a recent story well enough to google it, perhaps someone knows, but there was a local government that insisted people cut their inter-city emissions, so people started taking Uber and Lift rides....which actually increased the miles driven. That same local government will soon demand that ride share is BEV only. No over-reach going on there.



Another important issue is where the electricity used by electric cars comes from. Are we really producing a lower carbon footprint, or are we just moving it out of the city? It is even possible that we are increasing the production of CO2, depending on the source from which the electricity is obtained for those EVs. I have even read that the production of the EVs implies higher CO2 production. The only manufacture of the batteries would make this happen like that. So, are the EVs the solution? I think just to clean the air of the cities, but not to lower the carbon footprint ...

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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 03:08 AM
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Re: Ford, VW prepare powerhouse alliance on autonomous, electric vehicles

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...at first I was a bit wary of the tie-up, given the outright unethical behavior of VW in many instances, but I think Ford would come out of this deal as the big winner. Access to MEB at almost no cost would be huge.

The MEB is a simple skate board, with a battery, an electric motor and a charger. I think the MEB will not be better or worse than Ford electric platform, only different. The advantage for Ford and VW is the volume. More units of the same platform produced in the same factory, less cost.

The important issue with this deal is the autonomous conduction part. This is the tech that needs more invest and VW, evidently, has directed all its resources to the production of EVs, leaving the part of autonomous driving in the background. This is where VW takes advantage and Ford can share those high costs.

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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Ford, VW prepare powerhouse alliance on autonomous, electric vehicles

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Originally Posted by hellb0y View Post
Nope...they will be building cars on top of the VW platform in 3Y or less. Ford is also giving them the truck platform as part of the deal...
Is that a statement of fact, or a wish. I have not heard anything to back that up, so proof for your hypothesis would be appreciated.

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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 10:19 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Ford, VW prepare powerhouse alliance on autonomous, electric vehicles

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Originally Posted by falcon lover View Post
The MEB is a simple skate board, with a battery, an electric motor and a charger. I think the MEB will not be better or worse than Ford electric platform, only different. The advantage for Ford and VW is the volume. More units of the same platform produced in the same factory, less cost.

The important issue with this deal is the autonomous conduction part. This is the tech that needs more invest and VW, evidently, has directed all its resources to the production of EVs, leaving the part of autonomous driving in the background. This is where VW takes advantage and Ford can share those high costs.

Savings through volume is in fact the plan. It's not like there is special technology in a skateboard.

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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-11-2019, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingsnut View Post
Can't recall a recent story well enough to google it, perhaps someone knows, but there was a local government that insisted people cut their inter-city emissions, so people started taking Uber and Lift rides....which actually increased the miles driven. That same local government will soon demand that ride share is BEV only. No over-reach going on there.



Another important issue is where the electricity used by electric cars comes from. Are we really producing a lower carbon footprint, or are we just moving it out of the city? It is even possible that we are increasing the production of CO2, depending on the source from which the electricity is obtained for those EVs. I have even read that the production of the EVs implies higher CO2 production. The only manufacture of the batteries would make this happen like that. So, are the EVs the solution? I think just to clean the air of the cities, but not to lower the carbon footprint ...
...locally 43% of our power is nuclear, 10% is hydroelectric. Solar is also making a bigger and bigger peak demand supplier (we have the highest demand during clear hot days). Even with EVs coming, our power producer is shuttering two coal plants, which are base level producers, for the recently online nukes. They also said they don’t expect to need any more baseline plants for at least 20 years (efficiency gains + better peak suppliers + demand shifting).
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