Ford lineup to change, but how? - Page 17 - Ford Inside News Community
 164Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #161 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 10:19 AM
Ford Explorer
 
wingsnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,834
Re: Ford lineup to change, but how?

It is quite typical around here to compare Ford against a selected best from ALL other automakers. That is silly, because no single full line automaker is better than everyone else, in every possible way. Not even close. Ford has it's problems like everyone else, and lately, they appear to have far more problems. But we also know that they finally actually have a real long term plan. How well that plan works, will need to be realized first. Debating that plan is part of the fun around here, for me. To rmc523's point about complaints and timing, I share his frustration, because everyone here should know about how long it takes to change direction in a radical way in this industry, and complaining daily or weekly about it, won't change that.
ehaase likes this.
wingsnut is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #162 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 01:57 PM
Ford Kuga
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,812
Re: Ford lineup to change, but how?

Ford (and Detroit in general) historically had a longer than industry average product churn which partly lead to their near demise. Much of that came from the simple fact that they were poorly managed companies that responded to immediate conditions instead of planning longterm. In many ways Mullally's Ford was Ford responding in epic fashion to immediate needs, but not necessarily preparing Ford for a sustainable future. Ford is stuck in a perpetual cycle of rebirth every 10 years. We are going through another one now but the conditions are far less dire since they are still profitable. But this is probably the first time Ford has been largely alone in its misery. I'm both confident and skeptical in Ford's future knowing that this will happen again and again. But when it comes to products, at least right now, Ford's churn is not that far off from the industry. It's just the timing of everything, we went from the boom time of the Mullally years to the drought of the Fields years which simply corresponds with the product lifecycles. And Fields was also grappling with OneFord that wasn't completely successful, and the fact Fields couldn't make decisions ultimately meant Ford lost its footing almost completely. So instead of gradually phasing to a new decade, Ford basically has to start over and bank on what it has been working on.
Assimilator is offline  
post #163 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 02:37 PM
Ford Focus ZX
 
zipzoomflyfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 269
Re: Ford lineup to change, but how?

Out of the 5 new platforms, only 1 will be BoF. Does this mean the next gen Ranger/Bronco will be on a smaller/revised frame of the F150? I know Nissan does this with the Titan(old)/Frontier - so it's very possible.
zipzoomflyfast is offline  
 
post #164 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 03:21 PM
Ford Kuga
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,812
Re: Ford lineup to change, but how?

Ford is using "Architectures" to very broadly refer to the system of modules being shared between vehicles of a similar driveline. Even shared platforms today are not using the same modules. So it's less about the platform, more about the systems plugging into them. Platforms are still tailored to each application and cost, F-150 and Ranger are not neccessarily merging fames.
zipzoomflyfast likes this.

Last edited by Assimilator; 09-16-2018 at 03:23 PM.
Assimilator is offline  
post #165 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 04:51 PM
Focus RS WRC
 
Nihar Mazumdar's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 743
Re: Ford lineup to change, but how?

This is the shape I'm thinking Ford is going to move their lineup to.
Attached Images
File Type: png shape.png (723.7 KB, 15 views)
Nihar Mazumdar is offline  
post #166 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 07:37 PM Thread Starter
FIN Staff Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 7,893
Re: Ford lineup to change, but how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon lover View Post
On the last 55 years, Ford have some examples of product development that influenced the whole industry:
The Mustang, first pony car
The Taurus, first modern american midsize sedan
The Explorer, the SUV that started the American love for SUVs
The Navigator, the luxury SUV that started the fever for luxury SUVs
The F-Series, the best and most innovative pick up truck

Maybe the Fordís mistake is to trust in the succes of those cars and not invest money to keep them competitive (with the exception of the F-series)

I think that Ford needs to accelerate the process to transform an idea to a production car, and the new 5 architectures is a step in that direction.

Iím impatient, too. I feel that a whole century has passed since the last Ford launch (in USA) and waiting for next year is a long time.
I think it's something more basic. Did we notice that Ford just this month announced a New team tasked with surveying the consumer about what they actually want in a vehicle, like they already do with the F-150? All along Ford has been deciding what the consumer wants, and it's been hit and miss. But their recent announcement about the NEW team makes it clear why Ford products other than F-150 continue to struggle. With Ford blaming the customer for not wanting what Ford wanted to sell the customer. Ford made cars for the European market and just expected the NA customer want them too. Now making cars designed for the Chinese market, and NA and Europe are expected to want it. Ford has been vocal about designing Lincoln models specifically for the Chinese market as if that's a benefit for NA. It's just eye opening that Ford is just now thinking of asking the NA customer what they want.

This Ford focused decision making is clear by the recent reports that China consumers wanted a larger screen in an EV. Duhhhh....like that took rocket science, which indicates Ford was just trying to save money trying to use their tiny screens and blind to what the industry is offering. And seriously, they had to halt design of Fords first full EV because it was boring? The question is how did a boring design make it that far to begin with? Ford reminds me of a stubborn old man, who tries to continue to do things the way he always did, regardless of what's happening around him. Ford clearly does not take into account what the competition is doing and tries to design in a vacuum.

What's the best selling EV style? A sedan (Model 3)

What's the next best selling EV style? a 5-door hatch (Leaf)

What's the slowest selling EV style? An SUV

So if an automaker has the global manufacturing power, what EV style should they make at the highest volume to benefit from scale and offer quicker profitability?

1. Sedan
2. 5-door hatch (4-door fast back)

Automakers gambling on these Frankenstein car/crossover/suv things are missing their higher volume profitability, with ultra-low volume overpriced Frankencars. For one they are asking the consumer for too many changes at once. Adopt an EV drivetrain, along with a blended body style that does not match anything familiar to them.

It just seems so much less costly, and much more profitable to put the EV drivetrain under 'familiar' vehicle styles that offers the consumer the greatest benefit from the EV drivetrain. Which would be the sedan or 5-door hatch(fastback). Which is why if the new EV based on a Mustang is not a Next Gen Mustang EV, it will fail. What a waste it would be for an EV based on a Mustang to not be designed to take advantage of all the performance advantages an EV drivetrain can offer. Especially if it's called a MACH 1. Seriously.
Bloggin is offline  
post #167 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 07:38 PM
Ford Explorer
 
wingsnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,834
Re: Ford lineup to change, but how?

^

That's prob not too far off for many products. Can't really call them sedans, and you can't really call them CUV's. It comes down to profile shape. That seems to be the emphasis.
wingsnut is online now  
post #168 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 10:26 PM
Ford Kuga
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,812
Re: Ford lineup to change, but how?

Ford re-organized its product research team under a new head, but every Ford product undergoes exhausting consumer studies and workshops, this is NOT new! The reason Ford switched from sedans to utilities is because of those studies.

And believing Ford is the only company suffering from the demise of the sedan is absolutely ridiculous, this is an industry wide trend that has been happening since the 90s and accelerated to it's ultimate fate under the Crossover. Ford put forward the best product it could make and people still didn't want to pay for it.

The profile of Crossovers is very flexible, you're going to see that with the Mach1. Really the big mandate is that the profile most include a clearly idendtifiable hatch design with proportions that balance a roomier and more flexible passenger compartment. You can make all sorts of great looking vehicles without a trunk lid. ****, a trunk lid is bad for aerodynamics, that's why the Model 3 looks like an egg.
ehaase likes this.

Last edited by Assimilator; 09-16-2018 at 10:29 PM.
Assimilator is offline  
post #169 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-16-2018, 11:29 PM Thread Starter
FIN Staff Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 7,893
Re: Ford lineup to change, but how?

^....it is electrification that is bringing customers back to the sedan/fastback sedan. The industry knows this but it will take some longer to get there than others. Tesla is clearly leading the way with the Model 3, and that momentum accelerates next year with the base Model 3 being available. Nissan will most certainly be next following their Infiniti sedan ev, with Honda still toying with hydrogen. On the luxury side, MB has a new EQS to launch in 2020 along with Jaguar with an electric version of the XJ.

As the sedan 'shares' the segments with crossovers/suvs, there will always be consumers on both sides, with EVs pulling ahead of ICE sedans in a very short time. The challenge a 'crossover' profile has is that it either requires higher ground clearance, which is a negative for aerodynamics and stability for no good reason, or requires a higher cabin, which is also a negative for aerodynamics. But at this stage, compact/midsize SUVs are necessary especially for a couple of my younger nieces who can't really fit into sedans 'comfortably' anymore. The benefit of the suv is the ability to step up into the seat and step down out, and no sitting down and trying to get back up, along with needing a higher roof. For a little perspective, neither can fit in my 3-series. So there is a demographic that will 'need' an suv or suv that looks like a car, so maybe that's the demographic Ford is looking at.

And looking at the MACH 1, the current Mustang has a great profile, so as long as Ford does not break that, and then give it a performance EV platform, without confusing the Mustang brand, trying to be like Porsche with the Cayenne. Mustang needs to remain Mustang. But a Mustang Grand Coupe(4-door fast back) like BMW does could work. But NO to any type of crosover/SUVish thing for a Mustang.
Bloggin is offline  
post #170 of 190 (permalink) Old 09-17-2018, 12:23 AM
Ford Explorer
 
wingsnut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,834
Re: Ford lineup to change, but how?

I think many people tolerate the compromise of a Tesla 3, because of it's price point.
wingsnut is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Inside News Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome