eLectrifying Lincolns / reaching higher™ - Page 2 - Ford Inside News Community
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post #11 of 74 (permalink) Old 07-16-2015, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: eLectrifying Lincolns / reaching higher™

Report: Tesla Model S took lead from Nissan Leaf in Q1
Leftlane

By Justin King
Wednesday, Jul 15th, 2015


Tesla Motors' Model S has reportedly displaced the Nissan Leaf as the most popular EV in the US market, according to data published by IHS.

"Based on volume, the most popular EV/PHEV in the U.S. is the Tesla Model S," the research firm said in its latest EV report.

Tesla began releasing sales numbers earlier this year, however the company only confirms global sales totals for each quarter. IHS counted 5,813 new Model S registrations throughout the US in the first quarter, according to a clarification sent to Forbes.

Nissan reported Leaf sales of just 4,085 units in the first three months of the year, down 21 percent from the same period in 2014...


Read more: http://www.leftlanenews.com/report-t...#ixzz3g4p8GMqI

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post #12 of 74 (permalink) Old 07-17-2015, 06:21 PM Thread Starter
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Re: eLectrifying Lincolns / reaching higher™

Electric vehicle batteries are getting cheaper much faster than we expected
And automakers are using those economies of scale to jump into stationary storage.

ArsTechnica.com/science

by Megan Geuss - Jul 16, 2015


... In 2014, the average cost of installing a stationary Li-ion battery in a California home was $23,429, according to The Wall Street Journal. In May, Tesla CEO Elon Musk said that these batteries would start at $3,500, plus a $500 installation cost.

It's no secret that Li-ion battery packs have been getting cheaper, and it's unsurprising that Tesla, would experience some economies of scale to allow that kind of price point (whether or not the price is subsidized by the company). And the price is only likely to come down, as the company is in the process of building a massive “gigafactory” outside of Reno, Nevada, with Panasonic to produce Li-ion batteries. Beyond Tesla, however, a recent paper published in Nature Climate Change gathered data to confirm that the cost of Li-ion battery packs for electric vehicles are falling for everyone. If trends continue, the paper suggests, electric vehicle battery packs and their stationary brethren could compete more effectively against gas cars and backup generators not too far into the future.

The research suggests that the cost of producing battery packs for electric vehicles has fallen dramatically between 2007 and 2014, to lower price points than previous optimistic projections had expected. “Results show that costs in 2014 were probably already below average projected costs for the 2020 time frame,” Björn Nykvist and Måns Nilsson wrote in their recent paper.

Nykvist and Nilsson say their data indicate that battery pack costs will continue their precipitous decline, perhaps even reaching the point where Li-ion battery systems on electric vehicles reach parity with gas-guzzling vehicles. (Although the authors of the paper admit that this point, if we ever reach it, is still far in the future—not something we're likely to see this year or next.)

“The single most important factor in achieving a compelling and affordable mass-market BEV [battery electric vehicle] is its relative cost,” Nykvist and Nilsson wrote. “It is commonly understood that the cost of battery packs needs to fall to below US$150 per kWh in order for BEVs to become cost-competitive on par with internal combustion vehicles.”...

...The two researchers did not distinguish between different variants of Li-ion battery chemistry because there was too little data to break out each technology separately, nor did they take into account the costs of hybrid car batteries.

What they found was that the cost of battery backs for electric vehicles has decreased from about $1,000 per kWh in 2007 to about $450 per kWh in 2014. And that's taking all battery electric vehicle manufacturers into account. When you separate out the largest companies making electric vehicles, the cost reductions get even more dramatic. “[T]he cost of battery packs used by market-leading BEV manufacturers are even lower, at US$300 per kWh,” the researchers added...

"...other industry experts have also estimated that battery packs in general make up 25 percent of vehicle prices, which corresponds to approximately US$300 per kWh, for example, Nissan Leaf in 2014.”...

...So, this race to bring Li-ion batteries to a market that may be on the cusp of affording them is likely to continue. But when will Li-ion batteries reach a price point where they make more economic sense to use in cars and in stationary storage than gasoline or gas generators? Nykvist told Ars: “It is impossible to assess when such a low level of USD 150/kWh will be reached as it is too far into the future, but we conclude in the paper that the trajectory is very positive, and if the current momentum lasts for a couple of years... a cost level somewhere around 200-250 USD/kWh before 2020 is quite likely.”

quite a bit more...

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I keep thinking of a 100kWh** car that would (thus) have a 400+mile range (afaik)
so
100kWh * $300per = $30k
even
100kWh * $150per = $15k
= LUXURY BRAND (imhO)



...even a 10kWh battery for a plug-in with 40+miles range = an extra $3k-$1500
not for every mainstreamer!


**edit
Tesla announced 90kWh today + other stuff

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post #13 of 74 (permalink) Old 08-24-2015, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: eLectrifying Lincolns / reaching higher™

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2b2 View Post
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Does Lincoln have a (shrinking)~2 year window of opportunity?
to get established with class-leading electrification??

Interest in Hybrid Cars the Same, But Not When Money is Involved
TTAC

By Aaron Cole on August 23, 2015


Two stories paint an interesting present reality for hybrid and electric vehicles in America. Interest in hybrid vehicles has stayed consistent for the last two years among people in the U.S., AutoGuide is reporting. But apparently dealers and buyers can’t keep their hands off of those cars in Connecticut, where that state recently offered up to $3,000 on the hoods of those cars, Automotive News is reporting...

...Connecticut is offering money off the cars directly from a $1 million fund aimed at moving cars off lots. The state is putting up to $3,000 on the hoods of some cars, depending on battery size, to incentive purchases of hybrids and electric cars. Through July, about one-quarter of the incentive money available had been claimed...

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post #14 of 74 (permalink) Old 09-04-2015, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: eLectrifying Lincolns / reaching higher™

MANTRA:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2b2 View Post
...Does Lincoln have a (shrinking)~2 year window of opportunity?
to get established with class-leading electrification??
Leftlane

By Drew Johnson | Thursday, Sep 3rd, 2015


During a recent interview with Germany's auto motor und sport, Mercedes development head Thomas Weber revealed that his company is currently developing an answer to the Tesla Model S...

...Weber added that Mercedes' EV architecture is being developed on a modular platform, meaning it will be able to underpin vehicles of varying types and sizes.

Mercedes-Benz is no stranger to Tesla, having acquired a 9.1 percent stake in the California-based automaker in 2009. Mercedes even used Tesla batteries in its B-Class Electric Drive. However, the two companies parted ways in 2014...

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post #15 of 74 (permalink) Old 10-11-2015, 04:22 PM Thread Starter
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Re: eLectrifying Lincolns / reaching higher™

not about Lincoln but in-keeping with the Electrification theme of this thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2b2 View Post
...so
assuming the same partial-hp limitation all the current Hybrids & Energis use
( 2.0 Atkinson .= 141hp
electric motor .= 118hp
BUT they total = 188hp, NOT 259 ! )...
ref: Volt as alternative to VW post
WHAT IF FoMoCo
- took a smaller engine (~118hp)
- either a 1.5 non-EB (maybe Atkinson) or 1.0EB
- stretched a Focus/Escape/C-Max to make room for (more) batteries
- & at the same time, more interior room than the current Focus
to
bring out an improved plug-in (hybrid too?)
TO SPECIFICALLY TARGET VWs
as well as just FINALLY compete with the Volt/Leaf
Quote:
assuming the same partial-hp limitation all the current Hybrids & Energis use
( whatever engine .= 118hp
electric motor .= 118hp
BUT they total = ~170hp, NOT 236 ! )...
OR
even less:
100hp + 100eHP
total = 145hp combined, not 200hp
remembering that electric motors provide "instant torque"
I consider the Fusion/C-Max to be a bit over-powered for a true C-segment greencar

...maybe building this off the C-Max, AS A RE-VISIONED/Styled C-Max-sedanish-hatch(Volt-ish), MIGHT BE THE BEST IDEA YET?
178 ovl - 107 wlb - same width - same height**
wlb = avg of C-Max/Focus & Grand C-Max (about +2.7")
ovl = avg of Focus sedan+hatch stretched to new wheelbase


** amazed to see (in my database) that the C-Max is only 2-tenths" taller than a Focus

ref: new 2017 Volt =(afaik) 180.3 ovl - 106.5 wlb


...too bad it's a bit premature for The RETURN of :merlogo:

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post #16 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-15-2015, 02:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: eLectrifying Lincolns / reaching higher™

something that's been really bugging me lately
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloggin View Post
...What would be a nice surprise would be for the MKZ to get a plug, and both with updated longer range battery packs. I mention this because the New Continental has to offer some sort or electrified technology, especially since China has begun their push for electric vehicles and plug-in sales are now higher than in the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willwll313wll View Post
I don't feel like ford is really investing as much as some think in alternative drivetrains. I don't expect any model outside the mkz to offer a hybrid version, not anytime soon at least.
I've been wondering...
-- IF FoMoCo does as much "bluesky" testing as I would (dunno what else to call it)
-- in addition to (after?) computer simulations, I'd want PARTS-BIN TESTING:

Take a Z** with the CMx/Fu plugin electrics and swap in a
- 1.0EB
- 1.5EB
- 2.0EB
- 2.3EB...


** I would NOT use a Fusion body/shell becuz *I* would want to encourage Everyone to THINK LINCOLN FIRST (no one would ever see a Ford-bodied testcar in my alternate-reality, even if it was never going to be shared), turboHybrids are Premium anyway...
and do some trials of MODEcontol with them too;
+ see if any Focus-BEV drive-parts would fit;
also OF COURSE, have a team developing Virtual-Awd LIKE ALL OTHER MFG's
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Last edited by 2b2; 11-15-2015 at 02:59 PM.
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post #17 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-15-2015, 04:20 PM
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Re: eLectrifying Lincolns / reaching higher™

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2b2 View Post
something that's been really bugging me lately

I've been wondering...
-- IF FoMoCo does as much "bluesky" testing as I would (dunno what else to call it)
-- in addition to (after?) computer simulations, I'd want PARTS-BIN TESTING:

Take a Z** with the CMx/Fu plugin electrics and swap in a
- 1.0EB
- 1.5EB
- 2.0EB
- 2.3EB...


** I would NOT use a Fusion body/shell becuz *I* would want to encourage Everyone to THINK LINCOLN FIRST (no one would ever see a Ford-bodied testcar in my alternate-reality, even if it was never going to be shared), turboHybrids are Premium anyway...
and do some trials of MODEcontol with them too;
+ see if any Focus-BEV drive-parts would fit;
also OF COURSE, have a team developing Virtual-Awd LIKE ALL OTHER MFG's
I think Ford will do another 'steal the show' kind of thing when they announce their updated/ new hybrid/plug-in tech in refreshed or new vehicles.

It's been too long since Ford updated anything related to their electrification offerings. I remember the RWD Hybrid platform that Ford was working with Toyota on, was to be ready 'before' 2020. But yikes, that's 4 more years out if that's the case.

I bet like you showed, the EB engines will play a big part in the new hybrid tech. Especially since Ford already hinted about using the Atkinson cycle with the highly configurable 1.0L EcoBoost in tests. But I think it would have to be the 1.5L EB with Atkinson cycle used in the hybrid tech, so there would be enough HP and torque to have the power consumers expect from Ford, with the retrofit hybrids. BUT, a new dedicated hybrid that Ford talked about, could have the 1.0L EB with Atkinson cycle, where there is no 'performance' expectation to match the gasoline only mode. This brings us to 2 different hybrid engines in Ford's new hybrid tech. Right now it's just the one 2.0L for everything from the C-Max to the MKZ. The two need not have the same engine from two different vehicle classes.
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post #18 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-16-2015, 11:53 AM
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Re: eLectrifying Lincolns / reaching higher™

It's become increasingly clear to me that Lincoln, along with Ford in general, doesn't take electrification seriously. I made the decision to move on a while ago after it was clear that there are no new products on the horizon, and the MKZ Hybrid, while nicer than full gas vehicles, pales in comparison to electric offerings that are available now. I still love the designs they produce, but they are crippled by archaic drive trains appreciated only by drivers who don't know any better.

I'm hopeful Lincoln will survive long enough that they are able to bring a compelling electric vehicle to market, but their continued lackluster sales even with the hideous designs that better selling brands are putting out makes me doubt whether it will ever happen. In the meantime, I'll be driving around gas-free in my BMW i3 and future Tesla Model X waiting for the day when I can again consider a Lincoln.
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post #19 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-16-2015, 01:12 PM Thread Starter
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Re: eLectrifying Lincolns / reaching higher™

I'm between
T: "...that Lincoln, along with Ford in general, doesn't take electrification seriously..."
&
B: "...another 'steal the show' kind of thing..."
ONLY
because imho FoMoCo has
- Genius
- Luck
- Karma
that has them doing just the right thing at the right time LIKE:
they did with their Mortgage Financing JUST before the Banks&WallSt. took the eekonomy and FLUSHED it

that said,
imho they cannot wait for nextgen plat/prog/itectures to do MORE
(esp a mkZ-Energi)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2b2/crossreference View Post
LA...
MKZ - I would soooooooooooo Love it if Lincoln was ALLOWED to take the FocusElectric's** 23kWh battery & 143hp electric motor and combine that with ANY EcoBoost engine
** range = 76m/2014 and 81m/2015; Z-En = maybe ~60miles?...
my biggest fear is that they'll be blinded by their ePower to the People approach that has put a $10k drivetrain IN THE FOCUS


Quote:
Originally Posted by timf2001 View Post
...I still love the designs they produce, but they are crippled by archaic drive trains appreciated only by drivers who don't know any better.

I'm hopeful Lincoln will survive long enough that they are able to bring a compelling electric vehicle to market, but their continued lackluster sales even with the hideous designs that better selling brands are putting out makes me doubt whether it will ever happen. In the meantime, I'll be driving around gas-free in my BMW i3 and future Tesla Model X waiting for the day when I can again consider a Lincoln.
did you mean MODEL III ???
.......................that^
is sorta my DEADline for a more intensive eProgram's first outward sign

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post #20 of 74 (permalink) Old 11-16-2015, 03:47 PM
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Re: eLectrifying Lincolns / reaching higher™

No, I've had a Model X reservation for the last 18 months that I expected to get when my MKZ lease ran out, but the delays forced me back into the market and the deals on the i3 made more sense than extending my MKZ or getting a Model S. I still anticipate getting the Model X and sharing it with a family member until the i3 goes back, but my plans could change depending on how the Model 3 looks and what else is revealed on this year's auto show circuit.
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