eLectrifying Lincolns / reaching higher™ - Ford Inside News Community
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post #1 of 74 (permalink) Old 12-26-2014, 05:05 AM Thread Starter
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Question eLectrifying Lincolns / reaching higher™

not JUST because:
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul8488 View Post
...I wish there was a unique drivetrain option they could give Lincoln to set them apart. All-electric? Some sort of extended-range hybrid? There would be lots of marketing power in offering a Lincoln-exclusive drivetrain series (akin to Black Label), I just don't know what exactly that could be!
I *was* already thinking about it....
_____phase one_____
....while obsessing about The RETURN,
had to consider my (mere) fixation with
-- a mkZENergi &
-- updating the MKZ's atkinson engine to 2.3
so
assuming the same partial-hp limitation all the current Hybrids & Energis use
( 2.0 Atkinson .= 141hp
electric motor .= 118hp
BUT they total = 188hp, NOT 259 ! )

scaling up to the 2.3-Aikins = 161hp
so
same formula & e-motors = 202½hp, a 'nice' Hybrid upgrade
but
adding FocusElectric's 143hp e-motor = 220½hp, might be interesting for the MKZ-Energi? ...to make it even more special than the Z-Hybrid??
& what about bigger batteries than the Fusion's?!


( thinking of this topic as more specific, near-term (and less 'grandiose'?) than Mission:Lincoln....
....tho could be merged...
)


_____phase two_____
see the EB-Plug-In rant in The RETURN

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post #2 of 74 (permalink) Old 12-27-2014, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
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Re: eLectrifying Lincolns / reaching higher™

_____phase one, part B_____

this is where it gets serious, imho = Lincoln's next step (pre-D6)
& I'm a bit lost - - *had* thought:
MKEnergi & MKElectric (5-24-2013, Mision:Lincoln post#373) = phase 3?
but
now thinking
the MKEs need a bit more specialness since ~year&half later we don't seem any closer to them... & even my AMP/Mercurys have progressed to a step above my old MKEs.
possibly it'd be better for Lincoln to concentrate on larger vehicles? first?
so
MKS(wic)••
with ultra-refined styling, not 'controversial', just Gorgeous
enlarged CD4; w-i-d-t-h plus more than 3" wlb increase (more than Any Taurus!)
make every/Only non-structural panels out of aluminum - just so it can go down a regular assembly line
SuperEnergi Virtual-Awd EB-plug-in (and a BEV??)
all other drivetrains = AWD, with-or-withOUT the 9-speed
& close-to-individual options check-list instead of packages
idea
create mini-suites of closely related features and DO AWAY WITH TRIM-LEVELS (other than [BL])
and, just for me, Keep horizontal slats in the new grille for the FIRST Year = I am SO tired of a patchwork lineup-style & thought/hoped FLincMoCo was just about to CURE that
ALL ^that^ would NOT disappoint Me!


•• imho "MARK" is UN-use-able for anything like it WAS so stick it on this
- as the Top of the MucK
? has there ever been a MARK 1 / MARK ONE? (other than the 1947 Lincoln-Continental Mark 1??
hmmm
could that even be an adequate way to "suggest" that the Continental is coming Next?
AND get RID of some of the DEBILITATING "mystery" that seems more'n'more like a bad DRUG habit to me!



edit

not showing base drivetrains, MKC & Z electrifieds use 118hp e-motor (as in the C-Max & Fusion), largers use 143hp (FocusElectric) - all on rearwheels except Navi

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post #3 of 74 (permalink) Old 12-29-2014, 03:37 PM Thread Starter
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Question Re: eLectrifying Lincolns / reaching higher™


since FLincMoCo has been intermittent with drivetrain differentiation,
+ putting a $10,000 drivetrain in a Focus(Electric)...



Originally Posted (this morning) by wescoent ...View Post @ GMI
Quote Z284ever
I don't know if you would call me a traditional Cadillac buyer or not, but I own a Cadillac. I didn't buy it because it was necessarily a Cadillac, I bought it because GM didn't have another, 5 passenger, manual trans, RWD car to sell me. I also bought it because of Sigma's excellent chassis dynamics. In addition, I also had $3500 in GM points to burn at the time. I'd love to replace it with a V Sport, and with GM's $8K in MSRP adjustment, it's a great value. No available stick though, and that's a problem for me.
.
So, here's an important question. Take a Cadillac CTS-V Sport, add a stick, and set the price at $75,000. Then, take the exact same mechanicals, wrap it in Chevy sheetmetal, slap the bowtie on the grill, bolt a Chevelle SS badge on the back, and set the price at $50,000. Bearing in mind, that they're mechanically identical.

Which would you buy?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

edit: since
-- this is already a :stirpot: post
-- & I'm cranky with an upset tummy;
thought of a dialog at a Lincoln dealership:

ProductHost "Welcome to Lincoln, Sir-or-Madam!"
Guestomer "Thank you - pretty dealership."
ProductHost "Thank YOU!"
Guestomer "I'm here to peruse your Plug-In vehicles"
ProductHost "THIS is our MKZ-Hybrid!"
Guestomer "Lovely - but we've *had* hybrids and want to upgrade to a Plug-In - which should suit our needs even better."
ProductHost "Lincoln doesn't offer any...yet..."
Guestomer "REALLY? Since Ford has 2(TWO), I thought Lincoln would at least have 4(FOUR)."

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post #4 of 74 (permalink) Old 12-29-2014, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: eLectrifying Lincolns / reaching higher™

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2b2 View Post
continued...

wescoent
Let's dial it back a little. Let's say the Cadillac offered about 10% more in performance metrics (0-60, roadholding, quietness, etc...), but still had the 50% premium...
Z284ever
That would be different. A 10% performance increase or 10% something increase would be a better value...
...under those conditions, it wouldn't matter to me if the more expensive one was a Cadillac or MB or BMW or Audi... ...What the car delivers to me is more important than brandishing it's brand name...

- - & borrowing/re-purposing - - - -

I,2b2 say eventually "Cadillac (or Lincoln) needs customers, past present and future to buy ... simply because it is a Cadillac."
THO "until Cadillac can ratchet up it's snob factor, they need" customers to buy due to WHAT is materially offered
+
"The flip side being....you(who) own a Mercedes. Are you loyal to them? If Cadillac does what you say they need to do, will you buy a Cadillac? And if you do,will you have shown your own lack of loyalty to Mercedes Benz? And if so, what does that say about the Mercedes brand?"


all ^this^ pertaining specifically to FLincMoCo using everything in the BlueOval repertoire(or partsbin) to 'assemble' Lincoln offerings that are measureably a cut-above any Fords
and in this thread's case
using eLectrified Lincolns as cutting-edge HALO vehicles

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post #5 of 74 (permalink) Old 12-29-2014, 10:43 PM Thread Starter
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Re: eLectrifying Lincolns / reaching higher™

also in GM / GMI news is the nextgen Volt
which, according to a video I can't see just now, will get a bigger battery among other improvements contributing to a possibly 60-70 mile e-range
Quote:
Originally Posted by MechEng
...the next gen Volt battery basically has the same battery capacity as the 2015 Spark EV (Same cell format and same number of cells). The Spark EV got a whole new battery for the 2015 model year using LG Chem cells.

The (current) 2015 Volt basically gets an EPA rated 40 miles EV on a 17.1KWh battery (11.4KWh usable).[note GM did not re-certify the 2015 Volt EV range with the battery size increase] The 2015 Spark EV is ~19KWh (15.2KWh usable)...
plus
the other day I found a ConsumerGuide article explaining e-mpg:
"
a gallon of gas contains the same amount of energy as 33.7 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity"
so
here's my current thinking for Lincoln Plug-Ins' batteries
MKC = 15.2kWh (twice the Ford Energis')
MKZ = 19.1 (half way to...)
MKX = 23 ( = the Focus Electric)
MKS(wic) = 33.7**
MKT/XLG = ^ditto
and for Rwd-based vehhicles with electrics only on the front wheels
Navi = 15.2-to-33.7
Conti = ^ditto
Aviator = ^ditto
AviatorSport = Ø(E-wd) or 7.6 or 15.2
LincStang = ditto^
...the short wheelbase AvSport and LincStang(s) keep battery size DOWN to keep weight DOWN
in keeping with their 'prime directive'...


** imho it would make a big(ger) impact for 'Mer'can owners to be able to think/talk about their cars' e-capacity as "gallons of electricity"
ESP. when looking at the regenerative-braking "re-filling" their e-tank
& for pure BEVs
maybe keep their batteries as multiples of 33.7 kWh??
67.4 kWh = 2 gallons of electricity
84¼ kWh = 2 & a half g/e's
101.1 kWh = 3 g/e's

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

from GMI's Volt thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by MechTec
...Also I disagree with your claim of the need of a 60 - 70 mile range. What would be the point of that? Now you are spending thousands of dollars for less than 5% of the target demographic. The cost benefit just isn't there. Plus now you are just carrying around a range extender that you will almost never use. Sure there are people that have greater than a 50 mile commute. But they are a very small minority. The majority of people do not...
just-imho ^that^ simply does Not apply to Lux e-customers.
What I've heard them say(brag) the most is about how rarely they buy gas

it's really about one-upmanship
aferall
how many people really use 300hp - 400hp - 500hp - 600hp . . .
yet think Luxo Brands hafta offer that

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post #6 of 74 (permalink) Old 06-20-2015, 01:09 PM
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Re: eLectrifying Lincolns / reaching higher™

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2b2 View Post
also in GM / GMI news is the nextgen Volt
which, according to a video I can't see just now, will get a bigger battery among other improvements contributing to a possibly 60-70 mile e-range
plus
the other day I found a ConsumerGuide article explaining e-mpg:
"
a gallon of gas contains the same amount of energy as 33.7 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity"
so
here's my current thinking for Lincoln Plug-Ins' batteries
MKC = 15.2kWh (twice the Ford Energis')
MKZ = 19.1 (half way to...)
MKX = 23 ( = the Focus Electric)
MKS(wic) = 33.7**
MKT/XLG = ^ditto
and for Rwd-based vehhicles with electrics only on the front wheels
Navi = 15.2-to-33.7
Conti = ^ditto
Aviator = ^ditto
AviatorSport = Ø(E-wd) or 7.6 or 15.2
LincStang = ditto^
...the short wheelbase AvSport and LincStang(s) keep battery size DOWN to keep weight DOWN
in keeping with their 'prime directive'...


** imho it would make a big(ger) impact for 'Mer'can owners to be able to think/talk about their cars' e-capacity as "gallons of electricity"
ESP. when looking at the regenerative-braking "re-filling" their e-tank
& for pure BEVs
maybe keep their batteries as multiples of 33.7 kWh??
67.4 kWh = 2 gallons of electricity
84¼ kWh = 2 & a half g/e's
101.1 kWh = 3 g/e's

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

from GMI's Volt thread
just-imho ^that^ simply does Not apply to Lux e-customers.
What I've heard them say(brag) the most is about how rarely they buy gas

it's really about one-upmanship
aferall
how many people really use 300hp - 400hp - 500hp - 600hp . . .
yet think Luxo Brands hafta offer that
Agreed somewhat. The New Volvo XC90 is getting rave reviews for the hybrid model. Combined has 400 hp and has an all electric range of 20-25 miles. Ford needs to compete against that. New black label Aviator. Honest 25 mile all electric range and combined over 400 hp. Most people would be quite happy with that combo.
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post #7 of 74 (permalink) Old 06-20-2015, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
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Re: eLectrifying Lincolns / reaching higher™

Welcome to the forum, msm859

I haven't been following other brands as closely as I'd like
but
one of the features from Volvo that strongly impressed me is their driver-selectable modes


Volvo-V60-Plug-in-Hybrid thread


believe this driver-engagement can lead to improvements separate-from-&-added-to hardware advencements


re: range
just-imho, the mfgs' best efforts so far have been largely "a priori"/theoretical best-guesses
&/+
as drivers' expectations & practices change,
and the infrastructure develops,
believe we may see multiple "un-imagined" preferences appear from the real-world.

one reason^ I hope FLincMoCo will do more "almost-experimentation in production" with much more variety than 1 BEV drivetrain + what's basically (afaik) ONE system in hybrid & plug-in forms.
My favorite fixation is with "Virtual-Awd"/thru-the-road drivetrains = petrol on one pair of wheels, electric on the other


nextday edit
Autoline video Link: XC90 discussion start around 40:00
they mention the hybrid drivetrain, which is Top End Only, is a $17-19k upcharge (dunno what else is in the package...other than an Orrefors crystal shiftknob)

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post #8 of 74 (permalink) Old 06-22-2015, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: eLectrifying Lincolns / reaching higher™

a sorta "Did - Did NOT - Did - Did NOT" article,
just to raise a timeframe question...

Tesla Motors: Model 3 Planned (ie DELAYED AGAIN) For 2018
(Update – Tesla Re-Confirms 2017 Production)

InsideEVs

6 hours ago by Eric Loveday

...
Update
(June 22nd, 11:59 am): Ricardo Reyes, Tesla’s Communication Chief has now tweeted an update saying the Model 3 will still “begin production in 2017“. Given how we only published and reflected on Tesla’s own slide in this case, we aren’t sure how we have given a “speculative blogger report”, but we can understand how confusion can arise.

Update 2 (June 22nd, 1:45pm): We spoke to a Tesla representative this afternoon and they re-iterated as well to us that the Model 3 is still “on track” for production in late 2017, and that the slide is meant to reference “full production” of the Model 3 in 2018.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Does Lincoln have a (shrinking)~2 year window of opportunity?
to get established with class-leading electrification??

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post #9 of 74 (permalink) Old 06-23-2015, 12:09 AM
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Re: eLectrifying Lincolns / reaching higher™

"Does Lincoln have a (shrinking)~2 year window of opportunity?
to get established with class-leading electrification??"


Tesal is really not a 'luxury' automaker, but just more expensive because of the large battery packs. Looking at a $35k EV offering 250+ miles of range from Tesla, the competition would come from the Ford band. Ford is more focused on bringing EV technology to everyone at a reasonable price.

After the current $3,500 Cash Back($26k), the 23kWh(76 EPA miles) Focus Electric is only $3,500 more than a Focus Titanium. Offering 3 times the battery capacity(69kWh or 228 miles EPA), would put the Focus Electric at $33k(including current $3,500 incentive). But if Ford is able to free up more of the battery pack for consumer use, 250 miles can be had from the same battery pack. Which would mean a next gen Focus or C-Max(similar to the GM Bolt) would work.

However, Lincoln is supposed to get a compact MKA, which would allow a platform sharing EV for Lincoln also.
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post #10 of 74 (permalink) Old 06-23-2015, 03:20 AM Thread Starter
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Re: eLectrifying Lincolns / reaching higher™

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloggin View Post
Tesla is really not a 'luxury' automaker, but just more expensive...
...and people pay LuxBucks for them
& buy them rather than LudditeLux

guess that means if Tesla added chrome & padding they'd bring in $200k??


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloggin View Post
...the competition would come from the Ford brand. Ford is more focused...
...on PRETENDING they've had a good E Plan
CoughMax




Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloggin View Post
...on bringing EV technology to everyone at a reasonable price...
too bad they don't want E success this decade
while
batteries are STILL a LUXury

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