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  Topic Review (Newest First)
07-17-2014 08:54 PM
2b2
Re: Mercury(/Continental) Division(s) to Return Later...yes or no?

I've been wanting to post in this thread and the 'True Meaning of Luxury' thread for some time...
...here thinking of ancilliary Brands/Divisions:
GMI crossrefernce:
Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo
...Audi is the most important brand in VWs portfolio. By far.
Niche brands like Lamborghini, Bentley and Rolls Royce cannot exist without a mothership to borrow technology from in this day and age. But full line manufacturers like BMW or Mercedes can exist just fine without a niche brand at the top...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tone
You're slowly convincing me :-)
There does seem to be a minimum viable volume/revenue size from which a company can attain scale in terms of purchasing and fund the kind of R&D needed to stay ahead of the competition. The question seems to be how big?...
sizeable GMI thread ^ as usual, which I've barely had time to skim
&
Quote:
Originally Posted by nruggiero post#64 View Post
I was thinking $65k-$85k vehicles aren't in the exclusive territory in today's world...
...[model/price chart]
my recent list, re-organized from GMI:
Luxury medium Rwd-preserved platform
$099-150k - semi-compact Sportsedan
$110-160k - midsize Sedan
$150-210k - 'tweener' 4-door Coupé
$160-220k - 'tweener' 4-door Coupé-Cabrio
$110-160k - semi-compact offroad Suv
$140-220k - midsize Sport(swoopy)Suv
überLux large Rwd-preserved platform
$180-250k - fullsize Sedan
$220-300k - fullsize Limousine
$170-230k - fullsize SUV
$220-300k - extralarge SUV-Flagship
all include a Plug-In hybrid (100 mile electric) variant
but no pure-BEV yet
( ? All at least minimally electrified? )

04-22-2014 10:54 PM
ptk94
Re: Mercury to Return Later...yes or no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidlane View Post
Until Merc and BMW decided to go down market, "entry luxury" an oxymoron, they were outselling them in the US. If you believe JD Powers the Lexus is better quality and Lexus has better resale value. Price isn't an issue the Lexus buyers would have no problem buying Mercs or BMWs. I spent a brief period selling Lexus and we traded more than a few Mercs and BMWs because the owners wanted a luxury experience that required selling the car before the warranty ran out. Does the term "money pit" ring a bell? It was a common reason for trading their Merc or BMW for a Lexus. Lexus made a commitment to be the best when they entered the market and that included reliability, something the Germans have never been known for.

If Ford can be as successful with Lincoln as Lexus has been for Toyota, Ford can "cry all the way to the bank". I believe Ford can do this. Like Cadillac, and a few others, it won't happen overnight. The key, IMO, is continuing progress with their product portfollio.
I don't dissagree with Lexus and its sucess (somewhat), but there will always be those people that the Japanese brands wish would dissapear off the face of the Earth: those who buy German and American cars because they are German and American cars. I am one of those people. If I want a luxury car, it must show off status and be able to compete with the best of Europe, which is regarded for luxo-sports car greatness. Lexus just doesn't have it. To some people, they just look like everything else that Toyota makes. Vanilla. I respect Toyota and Lexus, but I am not the only one who will never buy one. Its all opinion, but there are those poeple out there.

Mercury was always lower-tier luxury plus sport. Mecerdes and Bimmer no creating small, FWD vehicles. No well established doctor or lawyer will buy one of these. It is a way to get a foot in the door. The wealthy want vehicles like S-Calsses and 7-Series. Youthful people who want a dose of sport will be the ones buying the CLAs and 1-Series cars. Ford can have an advantage with Mercury. If Mercury competes with the CLA and smaller, more affordable luxo cars with a dose of sport, Lincoln can devote to building the more expensive S-Class fighters.

I'm not arguing with you, I just see a different story. From what I have noticed in auto-industry discussions, there are two types of market beleivers: The Toyota two-brand-strategy belivers and the Volkswagen multi-brand beleivers. You bet your aces on Toyota, I bet mine on VW.
04-22-2014 07:49 PM
SP1966
Re: Mercury to Return Later...yes or no?

No.

..............

04-22-2014 06:08 PM
davidlane
Re: Mercury to Return Later...yes or no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptk94 View Post
I don't dissagree that Ford IS following Toyota's path, I just think that it's a bad idea to. Toyota (the brand) has loyal followers and a solid reputation, but let's face it, Lexus will never be as prestigious or as "included" as the Germans. Granted Lexus has come a long way, it is still no BMW or Mercedes. IMO, if you wanna follow true success in luxury, the only way to follow is German. Lexus immitated Mercedes when it was launched in the 1980s. We shouldn't immitate a brand built on immitating
Until Merc and BMW decided to go down market, "entry luxury" an oxymoron, they were outselling them in the US. If you believe JD Powers the Lexus is better quality and Lexus has better resale value. Price isn't an issue the Lexus buyers would have no problem buying Mercs or BMWs. I spent a brief period selling Lexus and we traded more than a few Mercs and BMWs because the owners wanted a luxury experience that required selling the car before the warranty ran out. Does the term "money pit" ring a bell? It was a common reason for trading their Merc or BMW for a Lexus. Lexus made a commitment to be the best when they entered the market and that included reliability, something the Germans have never been known for.

If Ford can be as successful with Lincoln as Lexus has been for Toyota, Ford can "cry all the way to the bank". I believe Ford can do this. Like Cadillac, and a few others, it won't happen overnight. The key, IMO, is continuing progress with their product portfollio.
04-22-2014 04:39 PM
2b2
Re: Mercury to Return Later...yes or no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptk94 View Post
...Mercedes(muMBle) and BMW(BuMble(w)) ... I can smell the cheap all the way back to my house.
Talk about diluting your brand image.
...FoMoCo can dodge that bullet by bringing Mercury to make your CLA and 1 Series entry cars. So...Lincoln can bask in a solid reputation without making FWD-entry cars...
Mercury > youthful, sporty sheetmetal and interior...
^ = SmallMercsTheorem + (current)Lincoln Luxury Level

&
asap
make All Lincoln models&trims "by [BlackLabel]"
sort of an in-house über-Ghia

(( goes nicely with my previous post imho ))
04-22-2014 03:51 PM
Logans Run
Re: Mercury to Return Later...yes or no?

As much as I want Mercury to return, I think it is more plausible that Lincoln reaches downward to take the market it should compete in. It is more likely that Ford would re-introduce the old Continental Division further down the road, and place their offerings in competition with the higher end BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes models.
04-22-2014 03:15 PM
2b2
Re: Mercury to Return Later...yes or no?

a comment about "placement" of the BuMble(w) Vision Concept @ CarSpyShots,
makes me wonder
-- if Lincoln could be hampered by being too affordable?(ie close to Ford prices) &
-- if that's what Cadillac is trying to avoid with hiking their prices recently?
ie
paraphrasing/interpreting:
there ought to be room for another segment/vehicle-slot between them
(guesstimating at least a $10k 'spacing' in any shared size-category)
04-22-2014 02:04 PM
ptk94
Re: Mercury to Return Later...yes or no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidlane View Post
Not now, not ever, never!!! There's no reason to do it! It appears to me Ford is following Toyota's approach, two brands and a lot of platform/architecture sharing. Yes, that means Lincoln is going to compete against Lexus not GM, the Germans or Jag etc., IMO.
I don't dissagree that Ford IS following Toyota's path, I just think that it's a bad idea to. Toyota (the brand) has loyal followers and a solid reputation, but let's face it, Lexus will never be as prestigious or as "included" as the Germans. Granted Lexus has come a long way, it is still no BMW or Mercedes. IMO, if you wanna follow true success in luxury, the only way to follow is German. Lexus immitated Mercedes when it was launched in the 1980s. We shouldn't immitate a brand built on immitating
04-22-2014 01:14 PM
davidlane
Re: Mercury to Return Later...yes or no?

Not now, not ever, never!!! There's no reason to do it! It appears to me Ford is following Toyota's approach, two brands and a lot of platform/architecture sharing. Yes, that means Lincoln is going to compete against Lexus not GM, the Germans or Jag etc., IMO.
04-22-2014 01:02 PM
ptk94
Re: Mercury to Return Later...yes or no?

Let's look at Ford Motor Company. Here is my strategy. We have Ford. Perfect. That is the mainstream brand like Volkswagen or Toyota. Now, let's look at Lincoln. Simple, Ford needs to wake up and see that Cadillac is pulling away from them at breakneck speeds. 10 years ago, nobody would mention Lincoln or Cadillac as a BMW fighter. But here we are in 2014, Cadillac got its thumb out of its ass and is now a BMW fighter. Lincoln, your alarm clock has been ringing. Wake your ass up, get some coffee and toast in you, and start making RWD/AWD only cars. Make cars that compete with BMW, Audi, Mercedes. What platforms to start? The wonderful Ford Falcon of the Land Down Under couldn't be a better platform to start. RWD. Just give it a more luxurious interior and Lincoln-esque sheetmetal and you are well on your way to cranking out 3 and 5 Series fighters. Before Lincoln dealers die of starvation, please give them some real German competition. Hint: RWD.

Now you have two questions: What to do with Mercury? and Why no FWD? I'll answer them together. Mercedes and BMW are being forced to make entry-level FWD cars. I can smell the cheap all the way back to my house. Talk about diluting your brand image. The once prestigious 3-pointed star is now avalible to undergrads who saved up their McDonald's money for a few years?! Stop the madness!! however, FoMoCo can dodge that bullet by bringing Mercury to make your CLA and 1 Series entry cars. So when BMW and Mercedes have to stoop down and sacrifice brand image and prestige, Lincoln can bask in a solid reputation without making FWD-entry cars. Right now, BMW and Mercedes are kicking themselves that they have to do this in order to survive. But Ford can have Mercury to compete where the CLA is going. Add some youthful, sporty sheetmetal and interior, and BAM! FoMoCo can be one helluva company!
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