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Full Size(2 Door Expedition size) or Small(Wrangler Size)

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Re: 20?? Ford Bronco thread!

Small/Wrangler size is the way to go because not only will it be better on fuel than an Expedition sized Bronco but it will be able to go way more places off road than something that is the size of an Expedition. I hope if Ford does make a Bronco it will look very similar to the concept.
 

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Re: 20?? Ford Bronco thread!

I too wish for smaller, and if Ford learned any lesson on smallish SUV's, it is that a low CG is a necessity. Therefore, a BOF design is out of the question. It only raises the CG. Besides, a good design can ensure offroad durability, and the lighter the weight, the easier that durability can be achieved. Not to mention all the other benefits.
 

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Re: 20?? Ford Bronco thread!

A lot of things Americans buy are not necessary. Like a 12 disc CD changer, or a V12 two seat power boat
Oh, but you read me wrong. I meant to ask, why would anyone want an ugly H2 when they can buy a fantastic Ford Expedition with independent rear suspension and real usable cargo space? :D
 

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Re: 20?? Ford Bronco thread!

Oh, but you read me wrong. I meant to ask, why would anyone want an ugly H2 when they can buy a fantastic Ford Expedition with independent rear suspension and real usable cargo space? :D
I would buy an Expedition over the Tahoe anyday, leave alone the H2.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Re: 20?? Ford Bronco thread!

Yeah, the H2 is a Joke.
BTW, I want:

A 2 Door Small Bronco, Body On Frame, Fully Boxed, Front and Rear Lockers, D60 Solid Axles, Disconnecting Swaybars, 33" Procomp Xtreme M/T's, bumpers which can easily be replaced. Removable Doors and roof. Make it a good Wrangler Competitor.

The 3.5L Duratec Standard with an Optional 3.0L Diesel.
 

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Re: 20?? Ford Bronco thread!

I'm not too far off of Ford Rules wish list in some respects, but since we are hashing out wish lists here I would like to see.....

A body on frame platform designed for a revived Ranger and small Bronco in the spirit of the original. Since these two would go hand in hand here's a brief wish list for both.

Ranger. Very fundamental in approach the 4x4 should be solid axle front and rear for durability and low cost. Engine should be V4's based on the upcoming Boss design to maximize cost savings through parts commonality and because a V4 is short and would allow for a very short schnox maximizing off-road prowess and packaging efficiency. A small diesel should be offered as well.

The basic truck should be very simple and austere, pushing the idea that basic and rugged can be cool. A true hose out interior where carpet is an extra and the shift boot looks like it came from a school bus. Power windows, power seats, power locks, cruise control, etc would all be optional of course. And you should be able to add items like an MP3 player or HID headlights without having to opt for any of the above. A'la carte options should be pushed despite their unpopularity with beancounters to maximize appeal to young buyers on a budget.

Bronco. Same basic platform and size as the Ranger...the Bronco should be a much more capable vehicle. IFS should be used here in place of a SFA for reasons of articulation. The Bronco should be 4wd only and should have lockers front and rear and should offer optional portal axles for maximum possible off-road goodness. Base engine should be a supercharged Boss V4 with an optional Boss 5.0L OHC V8. austere version for the most hard core among us shouldbe available, and with all the off road goodies mentioned above, but the bronco should offer some higher zoot versions too including an Eddie Bauer model.

Come to think of it, if I had the opportunity to buy a new age Bronco about the size of the original with small V8 or a diesel, portal axles, locking front and rear diffs, and an Eddie Bauer package that included leather seats and other goodies I know what I'd have for a daily driver. Make mine dark blue with tan trim and interior thank you very much.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Re: 20?? Ford Bronco thread!

IFS should be used here in place of a SFA for reasons of articulation.
I'm sorry, but an SFA is WAY better for articulating.

http://detr6oit.50megs.com/ifs1.html

Plus SFA's are A LOT easier and cheaper to lift. And they are more durable, and the original Broncos untill 1980 were all SFA, and a lot of people swapped SFA's into the 1980-1995 Models

 

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Re: 20?? Ford Bronco thread!

I'm sorry, but an SFA is WAY better for articulating.
Plus SFA's are A LOT easier and cheaper to lift. And they are more durable, and the original Broncos untill 1980 were all SFA, and a lot of people swapped SFA's into the 1980-1995 Models[/IMG]
SFA's are indeed cheaper, more rugged inherently, and easier to modify. In extreme off-road applications solid axles are a much better choice since the extreme driveline angles a radical independent suspension requires (think diff to wheels) don't exist with a SFA. Also worth mentioning is that the center differential in an independent suspension is something of an independent variable 'in space' despite being rigidly mounted to the frame, giving superior ground clearance for obvious reason but also increasing your chances of high centering in the really rough stuff, not necessarily good for extreme rock crawling.

But the reality is that in vehicles which actually drive well on and off road IFS is typically superior in many ways since it can allow high levels of articulation without wrecking on road dynamics. And unfortunately for SFA rock crawling is more or less the one area where it holds an advantage over IFS with IFS proving better in almost any situation hwre speeds aren't super slow, even off road. Even worse for SFA, IFS typically allows better levels of articulation when the goal of the setup is to retain truly good on road driving dynamics in a vehicle also intended for serious wheeling. Put simply, by the time you have designed a SFA that can reap the benefits this design brings to crawling you've likely already torched on road dynamics. And since Ford has to make a business case for a Bronco, and therefore would have to sell at least a few to people who don't intend to turn it into a weekend rock crawler, the reality is that a vehicle selling at the likely price point of a Bronco is going to be expected to perform reasonably well on road, making this no small issue.

If you've noticed I left the Ranger platform-mate to the Bronco with a solid axle up front and did so for several reasons. One of the nice side effects is that those bent on a vehicle focusing closely on super-serious off road antics can easily perform a swap using off the shelf parts. Heck, Ford could even offer an upgraded version of the Ranger's SFA in a special 'rock crawler' package. But I think we both know that most people would forego that option given the likely consequences to on road dynamics.

If you made the Bronco in my wish list exactly as is with the exception of the IFS, utlizing a SFA instead, I would likely still buy it since I don't mind the trade as much as others might. But ultimately I think overall sales would suffer in a truck that isn't selling for the bargain basement price that Ranger would be expected to move at and that makes the truck a tougher business case without IFS than with it.

Ultimately this is a bit like the Mustang retaining a SRA for furtive drag racers. In that application the Mustang's live axle is superior, but despite the fact that Ford has done a phenomenal job with the design in the S197 managing impressive handling and a good ride the sacrifices made to employ the design are soon going to outweigh the combined advantages, even including the advantage of lower cost. Although, I will say that if Ford could strike a S197 like compromise where a SFA Bronco that just so happened to drive surprisingly well on road while retaining good off road characterisitcs in stock trim I'd be all for it. In fact I'd love it since this would be a best of both worlds scenario that would be cheapt to produce too. But the Mustang is a near miracle in this respect and I'm not holding my breath that they can duplicate this with a truck.
 

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Re: 20?? Ford Bronco thread!

The perfect Bronco for me would have to basically be the concept with it's short wheelbase, diesel motor and hose out interior. The Bronco could take an Xterra (do they still make it??), FJ Crusier and Wrangler approach. Offer a base model, and one other model with a few more standard features (power windows, doors, mirrors etc..). PLEASE Ford, dont do what Jeep did with the Patriot/Compass. Dont make the Bronco an on road biased vehicle that can barely go anywhere when the pavement ends. The Bronco always has been an off road vehicle and it should reamin that way. But that doesnt mean Ford should not have many options for it. If the buyer wants a base, hose out interior, they should be able to get it. But if they want something like, say an F-150 XLT interior with power windows/doors/mirrors etc.. they should be able to get that aswell. If Ford intends to make an on road biased small SUV (smaller than Escape), I really hope they can come up with another name.
 

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Re: 20?? Ford Bronco thread!

Hmmmm. Just took a look and noticed that the Mercedes G Wagon utilizes solid axles front and rear and if that doesn't upset the tea-sippers who pledge allegiance to the three-pointed star I imagine A Bronco could make do. In light of this, and in the spirit of cooperation ;) , I think I'd rather see a SFA, particularly since it simplifies production. You've swayed me Ford Rules.

Expanding on what 2b2 said. If a Bronco revival were ever to occur I have long been a proponent of more than obvious two door models. Ideally I would like to see a two door wagon and a four door wagon at least. A two door pickup would be cool as well, but I'm unsure it would find many takers. I also would like for Lincoln to get a version of that 4-door wagon. I think the Sentinel name would be ideal for such a truck and with Land Rover soon to leave the FoMoCo picture there is certainly room in the Lincoln lineup for such a luxo SUV.

And I too like the idea of a 'city box' suv which mimicks the styling of a revived Bronco....and potential even incorporates a few items which lend themselves to off roading, or at least soft orading. I think Maverick would be the perfect name for such a vehicle...always thought it was abit odd for a car anyway and it fits here carrying on the 'horse' theme of the Bronco.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Re: 20?? Ford Bronco thread!

Hmmmm. Just took a look and noticed that the Mercedes G Wagon utilizes solid axles front and rear and if that doesn't upset the tea-sippers who pledge allegiance to the three-pointed star I imagine A Bronco could make do. In light of this, and in the spirit of cooperation ;) , I think I'd rather see a SFA, particularly since it simplifies production. You've swayed me Ford Rules.

Expanding on what 2b2 said. If a Bronco revival were ever to occur I have long been a proponent of more than obvious two door models. Ideally I would like to see a two door wagon and a four door wagon at least. A two door pickup would be cool as well, but I'm unsure it would find many takers. I also would like for Lincoln to get a version of that 4-door wagon. I think the Sentinel name would be ideal for such a truck and with Land Rover soon to leave the FoMoCo picture there is certainly room in the Lincoln lineup for such a luxo SUV.

And I too like the idea of a 'city box' suv which mimicks the styling of a revived Bronco....and potential even incorporates a few items which lend themselves to off roading, or at least soft orading. I think Maverick would be the perfect name for such a vehicle...always thought it was abit odd for a car anyway and it fits here carrying on the 'horse' theme of the Bronco.
Solid axles are #1 on my list of wants for the bronco.

BTW, If you have been inside the new 07 Wrangler, you will know the ride is not hard and bouncy at all. Its smooth-ish.
 

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Re: 20?? Ford Bronco thread!

If Ford builds the Bronco as I saw it in concept form, I would buy one immediately after going on sale. Here is a photo I took at the Cleveland auto show in March, 2004.

I'm hoping Ford builds this Bronco. I like the original better than the larger Bronco from the late '70s through mid-'90s. I would think Ford could build it on the Brazilian Troller platform to save costs.

Please Ford...;)


 

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Re: 20?? Ford Bronco (& friends) thread!

found an easy to chop rendering at Autoblog (thanks to uboys @ GMI)

the idea has more to do with multi-models & maximizing component sharing
than styling (except for the one strong roofpillar look)
cuz I still prefer the Bronco concept's macho-to-the-max theme.

the main weirdness/novelty is for the Expedition 'name' to leap-frog down a size - mainly width & weight - leaving the NG Explorer to, well, do whatever it's gonna do...
(if needed, a nextgen huge suv could become officially part of the F-series)

Escape ------------------- new-Expedition (note: 6 doors!)
(all clickable)

Bronco ------------------- SportTrk ------------------- SportMax
(these look sorta CUVish but they're all lite-truck based & off-roadable)
 
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