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Lincoln lost money in the 50's and 60's when it used its own platforms. Not until the 1968 Continental Mark III was Lincoln very profitable. The Lincoln LS was a big money loser. Lincoln only makes money sharing Ford platforms. I'd rather Lincoln sold 100,000 vehicles using Ford platforms and make $1 billion profit than sell 200,000 vehicles using its own platforms and lose $1 billion.
 

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Lincoln lost money in the 50's and 60's when it used its own platforms. Not until the 1968 Continental Mark III was Lincoln very profitable. The Lincoln LS was a big money loser. Lincoln only makes money sharing Ford platforms. I'd rather Lincoln sold 100,000 vehicles using Ford platforms and make $1 billion profit than sell 200,000 vehicles using its own platforms and lose $1 billion.
I don't think anybody is against platform sharing so long as the platform is worthy of a true premium brand. Audi has shown you can take a mainstream platform upmarket, but the required the VW platform to move that direction too. They need a platform that can be turned up for Lincoln while being turned down to keep the price point for Ford, not a platform that is perfect for a Ford and bandaged into a Lincoln.
 

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ps
I'm definitely thinking ^S550 basedso can't see either being large enough to qualify for MARKhood***
(( which I still like using for a car between the the Z & Conti
Link ))


*** (still)edit(ing)
wondering about your mention of the A5, Scford
182.1ovl - 108.3 wlb - 73.0 w - 54.0 ht
which is more 'compact' (less overhang) than the S550 MusStang
188.3 - 107.1 - 75.4 - 54.4

Is that big enough for MARKhood for you??
The reason I mentioned the Audi A5 is because it is a nice looking coupe with a good sales record. I'm not sure a car the size of previous Mark models would sale in todays market. Although a large coupe is my preference I was trying to think in terms of strong sales for Lincoln. Next, we were speaking of the Lincolnstang platform which I did not think could stretch into a large car segment.
 

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None of this is going to help Lincoln if Ford continues to hack old platforms. Remember that the S550 is a hack of the D2C which is a hack of the DEW98...
afaik that's a gross exaggeration (no offense)
having read many times that the only part that survived from the LS to the Mustang was HALF of the floorpan
otoh
I *hope* FoMoCo has learned a helpful lesson from THAT Lux-platform >to> mainstreamer experience
IN STEAD OF getting scared off from trying to do it right the next time...
...that there WILL BE a next time
( of course, imho it's a no brainer to concurrently engineer both versions )

...Until Lincoln has underpinnings that are not hand-me-ups from Ford, Lincoln cars will not have cachet with a discerning luxury car shopper. Lincoln sales will inch up, due to crossover sales increases, but market share will continue to stagnate as buyers vote with their dollars.

A luxury - even a premium - brand has to have distinct aspirational cars, not cars with mainstream cousins selling for less money down the street. Lexus gets away with the ES - a gussied-up Toyota - because it LEADS with the rear-wheel-drive LS and IS. Now even Hyundai and Kia are in the hunt. Where's Lincoln? Still selling Ford mashups.

I hope Ford has a long-term strategy for Lincoln that addresses this but so far I've seen nothing that shows any promise except the announced CD6 and it will probably be a shared platform. My fingers stay crossed.
imho there are 2 *barely* related issues here
-- the engineering (that I TOLD them how to do above :angel)
-- the marketing < WHICH
imho FoMoCo might be starting to use the ploy of de-emphasizing platforms alltogether - see the "ABB" ChinaTaurus

by
doing what they've done with PAINTS:
give the exact same color different names for the different Brands

otoh
I'm less&less convinced that *NEW!* platforms, Now a Days, have any engineering need of re-inventing EVERYthing
(+
imho one of the most meaningful platform changes in recent 'F' history has been about uniformizing the construction SEQUENCE,
not so much WHAT they're building but HOW...
= the beginning! of true flexible-manufacturing!!
...FoMoCo's "dictionary" ^^^ has been TOO idiosyncratic(idioTIC) so far imho.
plainly: Only Ford would call ITS methods/assemblylines "flexible" - - finally changing
...imho)
 

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Luxury car buyers doesnt ask for what kind of platform aré under the car.
In a basic sense you're correct. They may not care what platform their car is based upon, but they will care when that car doesn't have the same qualities as other premium brand vehicles they compare it against. A mainstream platform isn't going to have the same driving dynamics as car double it's price for obvious reasons. Lincoln has to have platforms available that can bridge that gap to a greater degree than they currently do.

So no, they don't care what the platform is, but they will care if that product is inferior to competing premium products due to what platform is used.

Edit: And before anybody says that CD4 is the equal of those platforms underlying the top premium brands please explain why those companies toss all that money into the garbage for no apparent gain?
 

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I think the biggest thing with many of the current Lincolns that I hope Ford avoids is using many of the common interior pieces used in lesser products. There needs to be a premium feel to all the switch gear and less hard plastics. Its the little things that really distinguish a premium vehicles from a run of the mill one. The times of a $50,000+ Lincoln with a turn indicator stalk form a $14000 Fiesta have to stop.
 

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I think all FoMoCo products should have a premium feel to their switch gear, and they do. If you have not sampled them recently to see, then you are in for a treat. They should all be best in class, and a a Fiesta should not feel cheap because it is a Fiesta.
True! but that means that also they have to put more effort in making a better luxury vehicle for Lincoln

If they can´t use unique platform at least a wider track could work like the MKC/Escape
 

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Well I too hope that Lincoln could get it's own switchgear. As for the spy shots, I think this will be very very close to the concept. They've kept the lights, door handles and the body looks the same despite the camouflage tricks. They interior has to be the highest quality we've ever seen out of Lincoln to be a hit. I can't wait till we get some more details. Will the 3.5eb be offered?
 

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Regarding switchgear I agree with Wings, just develop the best you can and use it for both brands. I would however like to see the the skin over the mechanical portion be unique to Lincoln. In the end though there are far better way to spend development money, I believe even Bentley has some VW switchgear, it only stands out if the rest of the car doesn't.
 

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I think all FoMoCo products should have a premium feel to their switch gear, and they do. If you have not sampled them recently to see, then you are in for a treat. They should all be best in class, and a a Fiesta should not feel cheap because it is a Fiesta.
I couldn't agree more, thanks Wings. I've heard it said several times that Mercedes and BMW aren't considered luxury manufacturers in their homeland. They simply are full line auto companies that put their heart and soul into everything they produce. Switchgear included. If Ford and Lincoln are on this path then I for one welcome it. I have driven a Ford lately,actually 6 last weekend at Ford's EcoBoost Challenge. Personally I think Ford is improving with every update on every model. (IMHO)
 

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I recognize that many want Lincoln to stand apart from a Ford, but I think switchgear is not the way to do it. Sure, it can look different, although I personally don't mind and actually appreciate some features having a universal feel to them. It's just that sometimes, different for the sake of difference, does not impress me and comes across as forced. I think a quality feel is enough, and I love the feel of my new Fusion. Big improvement over previous gen. And getting better still. But worry not, differentiation seems to be a priority, witnessed by the new MKS....cough, I mean Continental. And I am sure much more with future top shelf new Lincolns as well. And I also understand if there is moderately less difference in a $35K MKZ - especially if that is what helps them keep it as a $35K base MSRP, instead of $50K base.
 

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Lets assume that Lincoln cannot make any money unless it uses a Ford platform (it's probably true, making my rants about product differentiation moot). So someone please explain why Ford uses one platform - the S550 - for only one car model; platform sharing for every and all FWD car platforms but not for the only RWD car platform it has.

Now, I understand that the S550 cannot be modified for AWD but that hasn't stopped Mustang sales. I would think that economies of scale would dictate a Lincstang of some kind but maybe the AWD argument is too compelling since people have unlearned the skill of driving on snow.

Maybe this is off-topic but that's been a trend on this thread.
 

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I recognize that many want Lincoln to stand apart from a Ford, but I think switchgear is not the way to do it. Sure, it can look different, although I personally don't mind and actually appreciate some features having a universal feel to them. It's just that sometimes, different for the sake of difference, does not impress me and comes across as forced. I think a quality feel is enough, and I love the feel of my new Fusion. Big improvement over previous gen. And getting better still. But worry not, differentiation seems to be a priority, witnessed by the new MKS....cough, I mean Continental. And I am sure much more with future top shelf new Lincolns as well. And I also understand if there is moderately less difference in a $35K MKZ - especially if that is what helps them keep it as a $35K base MSRP, instead of $50K base.
I wonder if you are not making the case for deep-sixing Lincoln altogether. Don't use switchgear to differentiate Lincoln from Ford. Don't use different platforms. Don't force different ...

Why the expense of supporting a separate dealer network, plus separate engineering, design and marketing teams if you are selling essentially the same cars built in the same factories to the same manufacturing tolerances ? Ford Vignale, Black Label, etc. (fill in the blanks), fit your descriptions perfectly without the administrative duplication.

I'm just now beginning to entertain the idea that Alan Mulally may have been right all along. One Ford.
 

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I wonder if you are not making the case for deep-sixing Lincoln altogether. Don't use switchgear to differentiate Lincoln from Ford. Don't use different platforms. Don't force different ...

Why the expense of supporting a separate dealer network, plus separate engineering, design and marketing teams if you are selling essentially the same cars built in the same factories to the same manufacturing tolerances ? Ford Vignale, Black Label, etc. (fill in the blanks), fit your descriptions perfectly without the administrative duplication.

I'm just now beginning to entertain the idea that Alan Mulally may have been right all along. One Ford.
I never said don't use different platforms, and I never said don't force different.
I have actually been a huge advocate of Lincoln developing their own new flexible platform for top shelf product, instead of just rushing a Mustang through with a Lincoln badge on it.

No, the new Lincoln deserves much better than yet another rebadge, and that is what they are getting and I could not be happier.

As for the rest of your rant, meh. I disagree completely.
 
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