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Thats good that they spend billions to make a couple million but It's a lot of holes in GM lineup that just in this year or next year will be filled. And considering they did get a clean balance sheet with products they were already developing (blowing money on) only needed to be finalised I think they should be having the best cars in the world. They went bankrupt doing the samethings they are doing now by spending to much in area you cant get as much return on.
 

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Thats good that they spend billions to make a couple million but It's a lot of holes in GM lineup that just in this year or next year will be filled. And considering they did get a clean balance sheet with products they were already developing (blowing money on) only needed to be finalised I think they should be having the best cars in the world. They went bankrupt doing the samethings they are doing now by spending to much in area you cant get as much return on.
So now, after pulling the "customer goodwill" card just a couple of posts ago, you decide to do a 180 and play the "clean financial slate" card?

C'mon man. Two counter-arguments:

-that was nearly a decade ago now.
-Ford didn't take bailout money. But that took money through the EPA back in the day.

And if you want to play the bailout card THAT bad, it's not just GM that Ford is having issues with. If you go back over sales numbers from last year, you will find one or two months where Ford had fewer retail sales than FCA.

That's right. Sergio Marchionne's international brand hodgepodge found more garages in some points in '15 than Ford.

Ford, belatedly, did the right thing by saying that D6 was going forward. But launching the Continental now, and seeing what it's going against, just tells me (and many of the writers in the OP) that the window of opportunity for Lincoln is terrifyingly small, and it isn't getting any larger.
 

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Thats good that they spend billions to make a couple million but It's a lot of holes in GM lineup that just in this year or next year will be filled. And considering they did get a clean balance sheet with products they were already developing (blowing money on) only needed to be finalised I think they should be having the best cars in the world. They went bankrupt doing the samethings they are doing now by spending to much in area you cant get as much return on.
This one post illustrates how ill-informed and hostile you are, ignoring facts that don't support your opinion...congrats, you are an official FIN member. Why do so many of these Lincoln discussions degenerate into criticizing the competition rather than acknowledging where lincoln (ford) may have some weakness? I'm a proud Cadillac CTS coupe owner, and I get lots of attention at gas stops, car washes etc. I love driving my Cadillac and I believe they are on a very good and unique, path. I would happily buy a new Lincoln if one should ever appeal to me again. That's Lincoln's biggest issue...they have made themselves irrelevant. The consumer doesn't care. I so hope that the continental is a stunner in person...Lincoln needs a swagger car, something that everyone notices and desires...like the 300 used to be. And lincoln needs the tech to back it up. Good enough isn't enough when the competition is this good.
 

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Couple of corrections and facts are out of place, so if I may;

1. Ford is a global company, not a Detroit company, and they don’t build vehicles just to impress at their local show. Lincoln simply aligned some of their new product for better ‘global’ recognition and sales, not Detroit sales. And China promises some HUGE growth.
2. The EPA, or more specifically, the Department of Energy, hands out low interest loans to companies periodically to help industries meet half way with the overwhelming regulations and expectations put upon them by the same agency….and Ford was offered that low interest loan above GM and Chrysler at the time due to their Greening efforts. That is hardly just ‘taking monies” and hardly the same thing as begging for money to keep your lights on.
3. Lincoln has done more with less in the last few years, than Cadillac, who can’t seem to hit the right sedan size, and keeps throwing new vehicles at the brand. XTS is too soft, CTS is too hard and small, and ATS is smaller yet, and sells in direct proportion to incentive deals offered only. And now we have CT6 that is just right, but nobody can afford. Oh Goldilocks, you fussy girl you. Meanwhile, the rage is CUV's and GM is just now learning that.
4. Continental goes on sale in late summer, priced far less than CTS, which comes standard with an I4 btw.
5. Lincoln sales will continue to climb with new product introductions, although the opposite seems to be true at Cadillac. When new CUV replaces old SRX on lots, sales will only continue to drop, because incentives moved most of those, and I doubt GM will launch with same level of cash on the hood.
6. Lincoln is ‘mostly’ following their own roadmap, not someone else’s.
 

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I think that 80% of Lincoln debates erode negatively whenever someone does not keep in mind that new products today as well as updates, are all predicated on the existing platforms they have been dealt years ago. And they pretend to be shocked when this Conti is not all new on a unique chassis, or whatever. It is interim, and everyone should know this by now. People can't seem to realize that all new platforms take 5-6 years to produce. Especially today, when one platform spawns many other vehicles. No full line automaker with multiple brands who wants to be profitable, will develop a one-off platform for a SINGLE low volume luxury vehicle. Instead, it will span several class sizes, across several brands, and include CUV's, hybrids, etc. So any future D6 platform, or whatever Ford chooses to call it, is concurrently being designed for many, many vehicles, all spread out over their respective launches. The sheer complexity of doing this at all, let alone without any quality issues, still blows my mind, and I have been around for many years. So when I hear a pseudo-autoblog-wannabe-journalist, or some forum troll, or whoever, complain that Ford is too slow.....I now just smile. I actually used to get defensive. Not any more. So have fun with that too.
 

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None of this has anything to do with the original post, which links to an article that involves several North American auto journalists making generally negative remarks about the Lincoln Continental at the Detroit Auto Show.

On topic please.

As for you no longer going on the defensive but just smiling... the nature of your posts in here the last twelve hours says otherwise. I won't even delve into some of the stuff I've been told by other folks.
 

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None of this has anything to do with the original post, which links to an article that involves several North American auto journalists making generally negative remarks about the Lincoln Continental at the Detroit Auto Show.

On topic please.

As for you no longer going on the defensive but just smiling... the nature of your posts in here the last twelve hours says otherwise. I won't even delve into some of the stuff I've been told by other folks.
And those journalists nicely ignore that this is an OK effort for NA and a great product of China ....

You seem to not care about the fact that a car needs to debut somewhere -- regardless how many markets it will sell in. Conti will work fine in the US -- it's a branding play here. It will work great in China -- where it's a volume play.

Sure people have Audis and whatnot, but none offer them the value, the name, and the spoils. Not even hyundai / genesis.

The Journos refuse to leave the traditionalist thinking about the potnetials for change. That article could have been written about the first Lexus LS back in the 1990 -- they would have said the same misguided dismissive drivel.

Conti may be a crap car, but nothing about what we know so far has told us why.
 

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This one post illustrates how ill-informed and hostile you are, ignoring facts that don't support your opinion...congrats, you are an official FIN member. Why do so many of these Lincoln discussions degenerate into criticizing the competition rather than acknowledging where lincoln (ford) may have some weakness? I'm a proud Cadillac CTS coupe owner, and I get lots of attention at gas stops, car washes etc. I love driving my Cadillac and I believe they are on a very good and unique, path. I would happily buy a new Lincoln if one should ever appeal to me again. That's Lincoln's biggest issue...they have made themselves irrelevant. The consumer doesn't care. I so hope that the continental is a stunner in person...Lincoln needs a swagger car, something that everyone notices and desires...like the 300 used to be. And lincoln needs the tech to back it up. Good enough isn't enough when the competition is this good.
Oh where is a cts coupe now? You know what happened it wasn't successful and they couldn't support to build it and an ATS coupe. I like Cadillac but they aren't as successful as you think they are which is why they keep developing cars following whatever bmw is going to or is selling then realizing they can't compete long term. I'm not ill-informed youre just mad that a car you like isn't as popular as you think it should be, believe me i know the feeling.
 

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It is posts like this, and the attitude behind them, that have helped put Lincoln where it is, and it is posts and attitudes like this that will continue to send them downward.

And that's sad.

Memo to the coddlers and enablers: THIS IS 2016. If you do not have world-class platforms, or drivelines, or electronics... you are not going to succeed. Nor should you.

From what I have read, this car goes on the sale near the end of this year, it will start around 50 grand, it will offer a FWD version, it will have the NA 3.7 as a base engine, it will offer no more than six speeds, and it will be built on a chassis that has its origins in a Ford Fusion.

Sorry, man. When Hyundai, Volvo, and Cadillac are stepping up their game like they have shown?... all the name-calling, buck-passing and condescending attitude in the world won't make a lick of difference.
Do you think "world class" platforms, powertrains, etc. etc. just appear out of nowhere, instantly? They take years to develop. And I just don't understand why you and others seem to think Lincoln as-is is all they will ever be, that they're never going to work toward further improvement, that this is as far as they're going to ever go. This is JUST THE BEGINNING. Better platforms, powertrain, technology, etc. will come! It doesn't appear overnight. Did Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, and Audi get where they are overnight? Did Cadillac get where it now is overnight? No, it's been a process since 2002/3. Have Hyundai and Volvo gotten where they are overnight? No. It takes years to build a brand.

Compare Lincoln's current lineup (including Continental) to the one they had just a few years ago. I think even you could admit it's quite a jump. Now imagine that "minimal" effort not only multiplied, but put out consistently over years with each next generation of vehicle. Lincoln is not standing still as you and others seem to think.

Guy. You're enabling Ford to mail it in EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU WRITE STUFF LIKE THIS.

Screw the Germans: for an as-listed price of 57 grand you can have a Cadillac with two more speeds and perhaps the most advanced unibody on the planet.

It will be as large, and as sturdy, as a standard-wheelbase 7-series or S-class.

It will weigh about 3800 pounds. Think about that. It will weigh as much as a previous-gen Camaro. That's what you call sweating the details.

GM's rebound after the restructuring is entirely due to hard work. There is NO LOVE in America for a company that, even close to a decade later, still gets called "Government Motors." So no, that argument holds no water.

Ford cannot expect to mail it in and still succeed. Those days are decades gone.
Ford is not taking the "copy BMW" approach with Lincoln like Cadillac. There will be buyers for CT6. There will be buyers for Continental. Each car has strengths and weaknesses.

None of this has anything to do with the original post, which links to an article that involves several North American auto journalists making generally negative remarks about the Lincoln Continental at the Detroit Auto Show.

On topic please.

As for you no longer going on the defensive but just smiling... the nature of your posts in here the last twelve hours says otherwise. I won't even delve into some of the stuff I've been told by other folks.
We're discussing points they brought up? So not sure why you're saying "on topic please"
 

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And those journalists nicely ignore that this is an OK effort for NA and a great product of China ....

You seem to not care about the fact that a car needs to debut somewhere -- regardless how many markets it will sell in. Conti will work fine in the US -- it's a branding play here. It will work great in China -- where it's a volume play.

Sure people have Audis and whatnot, but none offer them the value, the name, and the spoils. Not even hyundai / genesis.

The Journos refuse to leave the traditionalist thinking about the potnetials for change. That article could have been written about the first Lexus LS back in the 1990 -- they would have said the same misguided dismissive drivel.

Conti may be a crap car, but nothing about what we know so far has told us why.
What makes you think this is a great car for China??! Do you think that after a coupla decades of German stuff and market-specific Buicks and Caddys that they will happily ignore some of the driveline deficiencies the Continental has?

How condescending of you. China may be run by a bunch of control freaks, but they didn't just fall off the turnip truck.
 

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What makes you think this is a great car for China??! Do you think that after a coupla decades of German stuff and market-specific Buicks and Caddys that they will happily ignore some of the driveline deficiencies the Continental has?

How condescending of you. China may be run by a bunch of control freaks, but they didn't just fall off the turnip truck.
Most buyers of this type of car in China are DRIVEN, not driving themselves. They sit in the back seat, and want a comfortable, smooth driving car, which the Continental aims to be. Again, not everyone wants some canyon carving super-sedan.
 

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Do you think "world class" platforms, powertrains, etc. etc. just appear out of nowhere, instantly? They take years to develop. And I just don't understand why you and others seem to think Lincoln as-is is all they will ever be, that they're never going to work toward further improvement, that this is as far as they're going to ever go. This is JUST THE BEGINNING. Better platforms, powertrain, technology, etc. will come! It doesn't appear overnight. Did Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, and Audi get where they are overnight? Did Cadillac get where it now is overnight? No, it's been a process since 2002/3. Have Hyundai and Volvo gotten where they are overnight? No. It takes years to build a brand.

Compare Lincoln's current lineup (including Continental) to the one they had just a few years ago. I think even you could admit it's quite a jump. Now imagine that "minimal" effort not only multiplied, but put out consistently over years with each next generation of vehicle. Lincoln is not standing still as you and others seem to think.



Ford is not taking the "copy BMW" approach with Lincoln like Cadillac. There will be buyers for CT6. There will be buyers for Continental. Each car has strengths and weaknesses.



We're discussing points they brought up? So not sure why you're saying "on topic please"
What I am saying is that is is becoming pretty clear that Lincoln is very (too?) late to the ball as far as their product goes. It's one thing to be out-teched by the Germans. But now they're behind HYUNDAI. They just flat-out slept through the alarm clock, and the public is no longer going to accept "the dog ate my homework" as a reason why.
 

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What I am saying is that is is becoming pretty clear that Lincoln is very (too?) late to the ball as far as their product goes. It's one thing to be out-teched by the Germans. But now they're behind HYUNDAI. They just flat-out slept through the alarm clock, and the public is no longer going to accept "the dog are my homework" as a reason why.
That's why from multiple accounts the Lincoln/Continental stand was packed, while the Cadillac/CT6 display was empty?

The G90 looks cheap inside from pictures, as does the current Genesis (now G80). An improvement? Sure, but still cheap looking to me. Do you think G90's interior is nicer than Continental's?

Platform doesn't mean everything. And great platform doesn't automatically equal a good overall car.
 

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Most buyers of this type of car in China are DRIVEN, not driving themselves. They sit in the back seat, and want a comfortable, smooth driving car, which the Continental aims to be. Again, not everyone wants some canyon carving super-sedan.
A good platform doesn't need to carve canyons. It's superior NVH characteristics will make it a superior passenger's car as surely as it will make it a superior driver's car. Again: Audi, BMW, etc.

I find this cynical attitude towards the sophistication of the Chinese to be amusing and troubling, in roughly equal measure.
 
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