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That's why from multiple accounts the Lincoln/Continental stand was packed, while the Cadillac/CT6 display was empty?

The G90 looks cheap inside from pictures, as does the current Genesis (now G80). An improvement? Sure, but still cheap looking to me. Do you think G90's interior is nicer than Continental's?

Platform doesn't mean everything. And great platform doesn't automatically equal a good overall car.
Anecdotal evidence vs. The link at the OP.

I think we all know which one I'm going with here.
 

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A good platform doesn't need to carve canyons. It's superior NVH characteristics will make it a superior passenger's car as surely as it will make it a superior driver's car. Again: Audi, BMW, etc.

I find this cynical attitude towards the sophistication of the Chinese to be amusing and troubling, in roughly equal measure.
Who's being cynical to the Chinese?

Because we're saying a vehicle doesn't need some magical RWD platform to be successful?

Lincoln's latest stable - of yes, CD4-based products (like Continental) - have received praise for being quiet and composed. I have zero reason to believe that wouldn't be the case here.
 

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So now, after pulling the "customer goodwill" card just a couple of posts ago, you decide to do a 180 and play the "clean financial slate" card?

C'mon man. Two counter-arguments:

-that was nearly a decade ago now.
-Ford didn't take bailout money. But that took money through the EPA back in the day.

And if you want to play the bailout card THAT bad, it's not just GM that Ford is having issues with. If you go back over sales numbers from last year, you will find one or two months where Ford had fewer retail sales than FCA.

That's right. Sergio Marchionne's international brand hodgepodge found more garages in some points in '15 than Ford.

Ford, belatedly, did the right thing by saying that D6 was going forward. But launching the Continental now, and seeing what it's going against, just tells me (and many of the writers in the OP) that the window of opportunity for Lincoln is terrifyingly small, and it isn't getting any larger.
Good will in that if its Ford vs GM youre going to have more favor with the former than the latter. So they have GM blinders on not realizing that:
1. CTS and ATS have packaging issues and are probably not doing as well becuase of that.
2. The plant that produces these cars had a long shut down because of over production
3. Raising transaction prices hasn't been successful dispite being better handling cars.
4. Omega is supposed spawned from alpha right? (see packaging issues)

So what makes a GM get a pass for spending too much on the wrong things just like they always have. This is not a new phenomena its business as usual because even through the 90s they still had great performance cars, but not all of the industry is buying a car for sheer performance and if a platform has packaging issuse then it is not world class.

Ford is trucks 1st cars seconcd and that hasnt changed so see as though the f-150 was launched this year don't you think thats where months where FCA passed ford in volume. Also volume isn't profit so lets see who can continue devolping better cars over time.

This is the point that I'm trying to make you can't bet the farm on a losing deal Cadillac wont make as much as they need to keep devolping cars that compete and not only compete but advance in this segment.
 

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Anecdotal evidence vs. The link at the OP.

I think we all know which one I'm going with here.
You mean the link that was to an article of literally nothing but editor's opinions/comments? That's some hard evidence there....

Supporting a troll post will not make my arguments go away. Which is a point I have made clear behind the scenes as well.

Perhaps posting in this thread is not for you.
I'll agree the troll post wasn't necessary. I certainly don't agree with you, but it wasn't necessary.
 

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Who's being cynical to the Chinese?

Because we're saying a vehicle doesn't need some magical RWD platform to be successful?

Lincoln's latest stable - of yes, CD4-based products (like Continental) - have received praise for being quiet and composed. I have zero reason to believe that wouldn't be the case here.
Yes. That is EXACTLY what I'm saying. You assume that the Chinese will settle for CD4 technology (in a STARTUP brand in China, remember), over established carmakers who give them their top-notch stuff.

Sounds kinda arrogant when I frame it that way, wot?
 

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You mean the link that was to an article of literally nothing but editor's opinions/comments? That's some hard evidence there....



I'll agree the troll post wasn't necessary. I certainly don't agree with you, but it wasn't necessary.
The troll post thing was for wingsnut. He's becoming upset again, apparently.

As for the link at the OP: it's pretty legit. These guys had an email back and forth over the merits of the car and they largely found it wanting. You can shoot the messenger if you wish, but I wouldn't personally.
 

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Yes. That is EXACTLY what I'm saying. You assume that the Chinese will settle for CD4 technology (in a STARTUP brand in China, remember), over established carmakers who give them their top-notch stuff.

Sounds kinda arrogant when I frame it that way, wot?
Why does it have to be "settling?" On the contrary, I could argue that's arrogant of you for assuming you know their motives and buying preferences. Lincoln had the best luxury brand debut ever in China last year, and growth will only continue next year as more dealers open and more products become available (especially Continental, which like it or not, is aimed at the Chinese market).

If buyers like the vehicle and choose it over a competitor, have they settled? Or did they choose the car they wanted?

I guess in your opinion all 100,000 people that bought a Lincoln last year just "settled" for a Lincoln. That's basically what you're saying.
 

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In North America, the 100,000 people who bought Lincolns probably did so because they wanted a higher trim level than the equivalent Ford. I say this because in the two instances where Lincoln products had sales increases (the Navigator and the MXC) the equivalent Excursion had a sales drop and the Escape's sales numbers were flat. Whatever you may think about Alpha Cadillacs and the Escalade, there is plenty enough differentiation that you know they aren't affecting Malibu or Tahoe sales.
 

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Uh... that would be China's ONLY startup luxury brand, I suppose. Which also makes it the slowest, if you think about it.
So Audi, BMW, Cadillac never started in China? They just were?

In North America, the 100,000 people who bought Lincolns probably did so because they wanted a higher trim level than the equivalent Ford. I say this because in the two instances where Lincoln products had sales increases (the Navigator and the MXC) the equivalent Excursion had a sales drop and the Escape's sales numbers were flat. Whatever you may think about Alpha Cadillacs and the Escalade, there is plenty enough differentiation that you know they aren't affecting Malibu or Tahoe sales.
Alright then, whatever you say. That's your opinion.

Cadillac's biggest sellers were SRX and Escalade. A top hat and rebadge, not exactly supporting your argument.
 

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In North America, the 100,000 people who bought Lincolns probably did so because they wanted a higher trim level than the equivalent Ford. I say this because in the two instances where Lincoln products had sales increases (the Navigator and the MXC) the equivalent Excursion had a sales drop and the Escape's sales numbers were flat. Whatever you may think about Alpha Cadillacs and the Escalade, there is plenty enough differentiation that you know they aren't affecting Malibu or Tahoe sales.
Actually, it is Buick and GMC affecting....err, I mean, stealing Cadillac sales.
 

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Actually, they DO support my argument because if I recall correctly the mainline GM brands that sell vehicles of those equivalent sizes were also up. So yes, consumer demand for Cadillac SUVs and other GM SUVs are also a thing.

As for the question about Audi and whatnot being startups once as well: yup. But the bar was lower then, no doubt. And it ain't going to get bumped down for the new gwai lo on the block.
 

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Oh where is a cts coupe now? You know what happened it wasn't successful and they couldn't support to build it and an ATS coupe. I like Cadillac but they aren't as successful as you think they are which is why they keep developing cars following whatever bmw is going to or is selling then realizing they can't compete long term. I'm not ill-informed youre just mad that a car you like isn't as popular as you think it should be, believe me i know the feeling.
I'll say that you are right on there not being enough sales to justify a cts AND an ats coupe. The coupe market is niche in general. I think caddy made a mistake in doing the boring ats coupe and should have instead continued with the larger cts coupe and continued the dramatic and polarizing styling. I fully support and hope continental gets a luxury/sport coupe version and I've posted that comment elsewhere on FIN. As for cts sales, I've yet to hear Cadillac or JDM say that sales are disappointing, I only read trollsters saying that..in fact JDM has said in an interview, that cts sales are in line with expectations given the price and size increase relative to the second gen cts.
 

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The one thing I would say in terms of a new CTS coupe is that it would now be rather large, given that the new CTS is larger than the old one. The extreme fastback styling may not translate well.
 

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And yet the CTS was outsold by the MKZ by over 25%. Mmm, maybe luxury buyers aren't the monolithic group you seem to believe they are. The magazines sure love the CTS and hate the MKZ. I guess they can only buy so many long term review cars.

Lincoln isn't BMW, Lexus, Audi, MB, or even Caddy. But, they do have a market to serve, and this Conti is the first reasonable full-size-ish model they have put forth in several decades. And, even though you are too mush-mouthed to say it, instead clinging to hysterical fence-riding phrases like "distinct possibility", I will say it, because I recognize that not every buyers wants the same thing: the Conti WILL outsell the CT6.

See, now I can be wrong or right. You can come back later and say: dude, you clearly don't understand the automotive market as well as you think you do. I'm willing to walk out on that limb. But you, you keep rolling with your trolling.
 
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