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Welll, BMW, Audi and Mercedes probably not. But they were never considered 'competition' in the first place.



Cadillac, however, should get nervous. I just compared images of the CT6 to the Conti. 'Boring' came to my mind...:yikes:

I agree LincolnFanFl!! Y'all need to see the new Conti in the flesh, if you haven't, before you make your call on this car. It's fantastic when you see it in the flesh. The CT6 to me looked pretty much like a warmed over CTS and nothing really distinctive in design. I think it's telling that while many of the "press" such as Autoblog have pilloried the new Continental for varied reasons, The Detroit Free Press awarded the Continental Best New Car of the show, which was based purely on the public's votes. I would say about 7 out of 10 people that saw it around me said it was fantastic and a huge surprise to those not familiar with its intro, and several said "I'm adding it to my list along with Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, Jaguar, etc., Acura, Cadillac (fill in the blank - but these were the brands I mostly heard) to consider for my next purchase decision" and several said out loud "Wow, Cadillac doesn't get close to the exterior look and interior of this car!" Yes, most were domestic car fans, but that's to be expected. I am a domestic car fan!! I came back a couple times and just listened around me - engaged some and others engaged me. Many were like me - former Lincoln owners - LS, Town Car, MKS, MKZ, Conti, etc. - but there were many that haven't ever considered Lincoln before. The mix was old, middle age, and young - even teens with their Dads and some teens just with each other! Yes, I'm 55 yrs old and a big target and fan for Lincoln (and a former LS, Jag S, 2 Town Cars owner who drives a Ford Five Hundred because it has great interior room), but there were plenty of others this past Tuesday from 4:30 pm to 8:30 pm that were in the other age, non-Lincoln/Ford owners, and socioeconomic groups! I think we have to keep in mind we are the most interested and critical since we live on these discussion boards. The majority of the driving public doesn't get caught up with or isn't aware of all this "emotional Lincoln baggage" :)


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The opinion that Ford management will not let Lincoln grow in a positive manner needed to secure them going forward as a competitive luxury brand....because it might step on the toes of Ford brand, has been challenged by me, many, many.....many times.

And my decision NOT to further beat that dead horse and ruin yet another thread, dragging it out many pages deep and completely off topic, has far more to do with my respect for this site, and the weariness of said subject.

Anyway, back on topic, the opinions expressed by a few Autoblog writers in their emails appears to be little more than a tiny sample size of a much larger ocean of opinions by people on the same topic, no less and no more.

I am good with ALL of that, especially since I have a better foresight into Lincoln's future than they could possibly have, and I do see the bright Lincoln star light that is pending.
 

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But... yeah. Ford is FORD. Everything else was, is, and will be, subservient to that truth.

And now you know the rest of the story.
I've been following this thread off and on all day in between duties and must say you are quite the amusing character. :facepalm:

Regarding this issue of Ford's upper management, I'd agree with you if Allan Mullaly was still CEO. He internally stated the desire to get rid of Lincoln and after his retirement his dislike of the brand was finally revealed.

However, Mark Fields is now at the helm and it's extremely obvious that he sees the value of having a strong Lincoln brand and the updated MKZ and the new Continental are strong evidence of that; there is simply no disputing that. The fact that the Continental has received so much praise from journalists and consumers alike just confirms that it will make quite the impression once it hits the roads and showrooms. Its also been compared to other midsize luxury vehicles in its segment (5 series, E class, etc. and rightfully so).

The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of consumers don't care about platforms, wheel drive type, proportions, or any of that advanced mumbo jumbo. Most people don't even know the difference between a Focus and a Fusion let alone the fact that the Continental is on a heavily modified version. Only we auto enthusiasts really pay attention to that and we are an extremely small minority of the overall market; (however it seems like we are an outspoken majority because we read and participate in forums like these daily). Most drivers just want a comfortable, competently powerful, handsome vehicle that draws some stares. Lincoln's offerings, specifically the Continental delivers on all fronts. Even if it doesn't have night vision. :toyota:​
 

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I'll say that you are right on there not being enough sales to justify a cts AND an ats coupe. The coupe market is niche in general. I think caddy made a mistake in doing the boring ats coupe and should have instead continued with the larger cts coupe and continued the dramatic and polarizing styling. I fully support and hope continental gets a luxury/sport coupe version and I've posted that comment elsewhere on FIN. As for cts sales, I've yet to hear Cadillac or JDM say that sales are disappointing, I only read trollsters saying that..in fact JDM has said in an interview, that cts sales are in line with expectations given the price and size increase relative to the second gen cts.
It's funny how GM can't justify a CTS coupe at this time when Mercedes can justify a C Class coupe, an E Class coupe, and a E Class convertible, and BMW can somehow manage to justify a 4 series coupe, and a 6 series coupe and convertible. Audi, by offering a A5 convertible, still manages to do something Cadillac can't. Don't know how that works for their profits, but if you look at these and imagine yourself rolling through Bel-Air in the sunshine, it can't be all bad.

And that is a good thing for maintaining the integrity of your core brand. But it has been an ongoing issue for Dearborn when it comes to how to handle other brands. They had no Alfred Sloan to set up the brand hierarchy and after the death of Edsel (the son, not the brand) they never really had any vision to do so. The Edsel brand, the Continental Division, Mercury, Merkur... they were all peripheral, not integral. It still lingers to this day with Lincoln.
I actually never took the time to think of it this way, but this theory seems to work.

I disliked this article on Autoblog. If people were saying the things about this car that they were, then it is actually doing its work, somehow. Certainly, I'd like to have one, sometime. This is despite the fact that it doesn't chase performance the way that modern Cadillacs do. Or perhaps because of that fact could be the better way of putting it. The seats of the CT6 somehow look sort of thin, or maybe it's GM's lousy photography striking again. But it doesn't look designed to be comfortable, somehow.

One caveat I'd add is that premiering technologies on mainstream brands and adding them to your top line brand is like putting design cues from your economy cars on your full size cars. They did this at Chrysler. Note the similarity between this:



And this clay of the 1962 Plymouth before they fatefully decided to shrink it:



They even intended for this look to be used on the Imperial:



And DeSoto:



Even with what was built, they (smartly) quickly backed away from the idea.
 

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I haven't read through the entire thread so I'm probably already repeating something that has already been said, but I think it's important to note that despite all of Cadillac's efforts, they're still largely irrelevant outside of the United States, and within the US, remain largely irrelevant against the Germans. I think that's Ford's hesitation about going all-in and throwing tens of billions of dollars - that they don't really have - at Lincoln, because when you consider how little market share others have gotten for the amount they've invested, it might not be worth it... not to mention that we may be seeing a drop-off in car sales as we close out this decade. Considering it's rate of growth in China, Lincoln's global sales this year under a best case scenario, will be double Jaguar's(85,000) and almost as much as Acura(175,000) and Infiniti(200,000), and possibly within reach of Cadillac(275,000) by the end of next year or 2018. But even for all of this effort, they're still 1/8th+ or more but a fraction of BMW's global might. Against the Germans, everyone is a loser, even if you move almost 500k cars such as Lexus and Volvo, which by the way is why Lexus declared in 2015 that they give up and will stop chasing BMW. So maybe the Germans aren't a meaningful barometer to measure success against.

Like the Equus, and XTS, and RLX, and Cadenza, the Continental is a value proposition, chasing the demographic of those who can afford a 5-series, but wished they could instead own a 7-series. And when you lower your expectation for the Continental to match its aspirations, I think they'll do well on carving out a nice niche for itself, one that I would have no problem calling a success considering their shoestring budget. I think the Buick Lacrosse and the S-class own the large luxury sedan sales crown. If Lincoln can sell 3,000 Continental's a month, and 36,000 a year, then it too will be in the top 4 or 5 best-selling large luxury sedans out there. Most large luxury cars have trouble breaking 1,500 units a month, and some can barely get passed 500 units a month, so the expectations for the Continental aren't as high as people think it is, and selling 1,000 Continental's a month(between US and Chinese sales) IS NOT an unrealistic or impossible goal.
 

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There is validity in auto-enthusiasts chiming in with their wants, desires, likes and dislikes. There are over 325 million opinions in the U.S. alone; some informed, others not. I weigh in from time to time but I never get personal with those who disagree with me. So here's my 2 cents.

Fact: Cadillacs cars are better than Lincoln in platform and in driving dynamics.

Fact: Cadillacs were far more expensive to engineer due to their new platform development.

Opinion: GM may benefit - long-term - from this as they trickle-down their platforms to their more mainstream brands.

Fact: Cadillacs are not selling as well as they should based on the quality of their engineering relative to their competitors.

Opinion: GM, constrained by Wall Street's insistence on rewarding only short-term fiscal performance decided to price their new cars on a par with their established competitors, leading to poor sales performance. Lexus, when they introduced the brand, literally "dumped" the original LS450 into the U.S. market, delivering Benz-like quality at a dramatic discount. Cadillac would have benefited from this approach only in volume but not in ROI.

Fact: Lincoln is ham-strung by having to use hand-me-up platforms from their mainstream corporate owner.

Opinion: The previous fact handicaps Lincoln both dynamically and esthetically. It also keeps the Wall Street wolves away from the door, short-term but there is no long-term benefit other than the still contingent survival of Lincoln. A luxury brand cannot long survive on hand-me-up technology.

Fact: Lincoln was denied access to the only RWD platform in Ford's quiver.

Opinion: The previous fact severely limited the range of product Lincoln was able to offer.

Fact: Despite the limited range of offerings and the platform limitations, Lincoln sales are, at least as far as I can see, justifying the investments made as Lincoln positions itself for future relevance.

Opinion: Since I am anal enough to know which wheels are driven and also highly opinionated about what proportions look good on large sedans, I am (and people like me are) not likely to shop Lincoln (I still sigh when I see the mostly mint Lincoln LS models that still ply our streets), although I might wish to.

So the gear heads want to complain about Lincoln not meeting their standards for a luxury marque. While I may agree with them, I still say, so what?! Mullally didn't kill Lincoln and Fields is trying to rescue it without offending Wall Street. It's going to take time. I'll hover around this site seeking more intel and contributing but if they don't nail it with the upcoming D6, I'm through. You won't have Glyphics to kick around anymore.
 

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What makes you think this is a great car for China??! Do you think that after a coupla decades of German stuff and market-specific Buicks and Caddys that they will happily ignore some of the driveline deficiencies the Continental has?

How condescending of you. China may be run by a bunch of control freaks, but they didn't just fall off the turnip truck.
Um ... This care is on a bespoke platform built for China .. how is that different? No one who has a chauffeur cares about "driveline deficiencies" and you have no data on whether something like LaCrosse or CT6 rides better than the Conti -- we have no data.

Most buyers of this type of car in China are DRIVEN, not driving themselves. They sit in the back seat, and want a comfortable, smooth driving car, which the Continental aims to be. Again, not everyone wants some canyon carving super-sedan.
THIS. Lincoln is doing a pretty **** great job, making this car feel special, unique and "it spoils you" ... not just a "look I am RWD , large sedan, you should like me"


A good platform doesn't need to carve canyons. It's superior NVH characteristics will make it a superior passenger's car as surely as it will make it a superior driver's car. Again: Audi, BMW, etc.

I find this cynical attitude towards the sophistication of the Chinese to be amusing and troubling, in roughly equal measure.
I am not calling the chinese unsophisticated -- actually no one is. We're saying that if what matters is NVH, we have no data. NVH has nothing to do with RWD, longitudinal engines or anything. However, you seem to be making assumptions about this based on some miguided set of priorities.

Here is why I trust Lincoln on Conti hitting the "Chairman with the Chauffeur" priorities list. Lincoln has been showing a very disciplined approach where they are releasing cars systematically hitting the key market demand segments. They are not doing any vanity projects like RWD coupes. They are building model after model of heart-of-the-segment vehicles that are hitting the priority lists of their customers. MKZ, MKC, MKX are all exceptionally executed cars for their segments (and MKZ does NOT compete with 3 series, but with Lacrosse and ES).

Here is an example of how that translates into your assertions. You claim Lincoln "out-teched" .... this point is moot as all the Germans keep doing is adding more driver spoils -- who cares about driver spoils when the driver is a low-paid employee! Spoil the rear seat occupants!

THIS disciplined approach is why the Continental places WAY more emphasis on serenity, luxury, seats, and creature comforts than Figure-8 numbers and slalom times in their marketing. That marketing tells me that Lincoln has done it's homework.

I may be absolutely wrong and Continental will be a horrible car -- and this will come to light when it's tested, but that data does not exist - you do not have it. Your points (like mine) are assumptions and tea-leaf readings. And I am reading the tea leaves differently than you
 

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Fact: Lincoln is ham-strung by having to use hand-me-up platforms from their mainstream corporate owner.


Opinion: Since I am anal enough to know which wheels are driven and also highly opinionated about what proportions look good on large sedans, I am (and people like me are) not likely to shop Lincoln (I still sigh when I see the mostly mint Lincoln LS models that still ply our streets), although I might wish to.
I ave 2 small corrections.

First:
The Continental rides on an all new platform. People are conveniently ignoring this in the bitch fest about conti being a fusion -- it is not. It obviously is a very different car. Just like any other automaker, however the platform was originally something else -- in this case a Fusion, but it is a new platform built for the continental.

Second:
This thing ...


... rides on FWD platform and is based on the LAST GENERATION Audi A4 which arguably is based on the Golf.
It seems to me no one cares about those origins. It also seems obvious that no BMW 7series buyer really cares about the Bentley. So, it seems clear to me that there are 2 groups of buyers of large luxury cars, and the recent offerings from BMW, MB, Lexus and most importantly Cadillac have been ignoring the aspiring Bentley buyer -- even though the "base mode" Flying Spur costs $200k ... and there is plenty space to be the "budget Flying Spur" of the market place.
 

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I'll hover around this site seeking more intel and contributing but if they don't nail it with the upcoming D6, I'm through.
Well, you'll be around at least another 3 years. I expect the first D6 will be the Explorer/Aviator debuting sometime in 2018 as as 2019 model. I think the next will be the MKZ in 2019 as a 2020 model. I expect the D6 Continental not before 2021 as a 2022 model. Ford usually has seven year cycles.
 

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This thing ...


... rides on FWD platform and is based on the LAST GENERATION Audi A4 which arguably is based on the Golf.
It seems to me no one cares about those origins. It also seems obvious that no BMW 7series buyer really cares about the Bentley. So, it seems clear to me that there are 2 groups of buyers of large luxury cars, and the recent offerings from BMW, MB, Lexus and most importantly Cadillac have been ignoring the aspiring Bentley buyer -- even though the "base mode" Flying Spur costs $200k ... and there is plenty space to be the "budget Flying Spur" of the market place.
Fact: That thing actually rides on a platform developed by Audi for the A8. The Audi A8 platform is the more sophisticated because it is made from aluminum (it was called the ASF; Aluminum Space Frame). VW Group took that platform and modified it in steel for the Bentley and for the VW Phaeton. The Bentley Continentals (how's that for usurping another automaker's stuff) are certainly not based on a Golf. The only Audi based on any VW was the TT and the A3 which were based on the Golf.

Opinion: Yes, people do care about these origins.
 

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Fact: That thing actually rides on a platform developed by Audi for the A8. The Audi A8 platform is the more sophisticated because it is made from aluminum (it was called the ASF; Aluminum Space Frame). VW Group took that platform and modified it in steel for the Bentley and for the VW Phaeton. The Bentley Continentals (how's that for usurping another automaker's stuff) are certainly not based on a Golf. The only Audi based on any VW was the TT and the A3 which were based on the Golf.

Opinion: Yes, people do care about these origins.
If you want to believe that, I have a time share to sell you.

The A8 platform was reingineered from the A4. So if Ford is "hamstrung by Ford platforms, then that A8 and Bentley are hanstrung by A4 origins. You can put "FACT" before whatever you want, it does not make them so.

The Golf reference is a stretch, no doubt (and I acknowledge that), but one needs to be dumb to think that VW Golf engineering is completely separate from the Audis -- this is VW after all. Calling Bentley a Golf is a stretch, for sure, tho.

Simple FACT is that Lincoln was given freedom to build its own platform for the Continental and they did using bits from the CD$ (which is currently the best platform Ford has) -- Ford then build the Chinese Taurus on the same hard points to spread the dev cost even further.

If you believe in the pixie dust about A8/Bentley, then how is this such a stretch for you?
 

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If you want to believe that, I have a time share to sell you.
Read these sites. If they are wrong, send in corrections. Meanwhile, leave your time-share in your will.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_B_platform#PL45

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_D_platform#PL64

The A8 platform was reingineered from the A4. So if Ford is "hamstrung by Ford platforms, then that A8 and Bentley are hanstrung by A4 origins. You can put "FACT" before whatever you want, it does not make them so.
What are your references? I've shown mine.

The Golf reference is a stretch, no doubt (and I acknowledge that), but one needs to be dumb to think that VW Golf engineering is completely separate from the Audis -- this is VW after all. Calling Bentley a Golf is a stretch, for sure, tho.
Thanks for reminding me how dumb I am. It's likely that most of the time, you're a pretty nice guy.

Fact: When VW bought Audi, VW was making rear-engine, air-cooled cars.

Opinion: Audi showed them the way and still does.

Simple FACT is that Lincoln was given freedom to build its own platform for the Continental and they did using bits from the CD$ (which is currently the best platform Ford has) -- Ford then build the Chinese Taurus on the same hard points to spread the dev cost even further.

If you believe in the pixie dust about A8/Bentley, then how is this such a stretch for you?
Yes, I am dumb and believe in pixie dust. Feel better?
 

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I've been following this thread off and on all day in between duties and must say you are quite the amusing character. :facepalm:

Regarding this issue of Ford's upper management, I'd agree with you if Allan Mullaly was still CEO. He internally stated the desire to get rid of Lincoln and after his retirement his dislike of the brand was finally revealed.

However, Mark Fields is now at the helm and it's extremely obvious that he sees the value of having a strong Lincoln brand and the updated MKZ and the new Continental are strong evidence of that; there is simply no disputing that. The fact that the Continental has received so much praise from journalists and consumers alike just confirms that it will make quite the impression once it hits the roads and showrooms. Its also been compared to other midsize luxury vehicles in its segment (5 series, E class, etc. and rightfully so).

The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of consumers don't care about platforms, wheel drive type, proportions, or any of that advanced mumbo jumbo. Most people don't even know the difference between a Focus and a Fusion let alone the fact that the Continental is on a heavily modified version. Only we auto enthusiasts really pay attention to that and we are an extremely small minority of the overall market; (however it seems like we are an outspoken majority because we read and participate in forums like these daily). Most drivers just want a comfortable, competently powerful, handsome vehicle that draws some stares. Lincoln's offerings, specifically the Continental delivers on all fronts. Even if it doesn't have night vision. :toyota:​
"Why is this happening? We don't know what to do! We've tried nothing, and it didn't work!"

...cute emoji tho
 

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This one post illustrates how ill-informed and hostile you are, ignoring facts that don't support your opinion...congrats, you are an official FIN member. Why do so many of these Lincoln discussions degenerate into criticizing the competition rather than acknowledging where lincoln (ford) may have some weakness? I'm a proud Cadillac CTS coupe owner, and I get lots of attention at gas stops, car washes etc. I love driving my Cadillac and I believe they are on a very good and unique, path. I would happily buy a new Lincoln if one should ever appeal to me again. That's Lincoln's biggest issue...they have made themselves irrelevant. The consumer doesn't care. I so hope that the continental is a stunner in person...Lincoln needs a swagger car, something that everyone notices and desires...like the 300 used to be. And lincoln needs the tech to back it up. Good enough isn't enough when the competition is this good.
valid points Samesun.

Only one clarification,

This one post illustrates how ill-informed and hostile you are, ignoring facts that don't support your opinion..congrats, you are an official FIN member.
Not all the people at FIN are like that.......I can say the same thing about a looot of people at GMI, that are fanboys that think that GM products are perfect and are total [email protected]!
 

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Paroozing through the comments section of that blog article, I came across this from Matt and I agree with it 100%:

This is not a rip to the editors, but an honest question, what did you want them to do?

The platform is the platform right now. You can't tool up for a new greenhouse if you want to get the car out while the the show car is still fresh.

I agree the MKS and Conti have a lot of overlap and price strategy will be a hinge for success or failure, but from a standpoint of execution, you have - do nothing... or, you have, differentiate the Conti and MKS as much as you can with the raw material you have to work with and get to the market at soon as you can.

I think it's sad that GM sells so few CTS' since it is such a good car. That being said, all auto journalists everywhere get to seem like good little hipsters by hyping the Germans, then saying how the American cars don't quite stack up.

Imagine this bizzaro world if you can - the car is somehow monumentally better than you could imagine when you actually drive it. Now you go back to your desk to type up the article. You are now writing an article raving about a Lincoln... won't the article sound contrived? Will it hurt your street-cred that you are pumping a Lincoln? Will anyone give a **** even if it's true? Look at the CTS - lots of good pub, reasonably priced once you actually show up at a dealer... and GM sells like 30k a year.

At this point, overcoming the perception would require the car flies and gets a thousand mpg. If you were Ford, would you take a three-quarter billion dollar bet to tool up a platform and greenhouse so the MKS and Conti were differentiated further? The car would have to be a rolling miracle to generate the sales to earn a profit.

I'm not saying they didn't put themselves into this mess with the LS, or the Catera, or whatever... but now they have to build a world-beating car AND overcome the inertia of 25+ years of perception. Unless they are both willing and capable of losing a lot of money for most of a decade to reestablish the panache of the brand, you are going to get incremental changes like this.
 

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valid points Samesun.

Only one clarification,


Not all the people at FIN are like that.......I can say the same thing about a looot of people at GMI, that are fanboys that think that GM products are perfect and are total [email protected]!
Not all the people at FIN are like that... but the ones that are do tend to drive down the collective IQ a quite a bit. Based on my observations, they tend to be a bit less forgiving of trolls over at GMI, and the quality of the discussion is much better as a result.
 

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Fact: That thing actually rides on a platform developed by Audi for the A8. The Audi A8 platform is the more sophisticated because it is made from aluminum (it was called the ASF; Aluminum Space Frame). VW Group took that platform and modified it in steel for the Bentley and for the VW Phaeton. The Bentley Continentals (how's that for usurping another automaker's stuff) are certainly not based on a Golf. The only Audi based on any VW was the TT and the A3 which were based on the Golf.

Opinion: Yes, people do care about these origins.
The Q3/Tiguan/A3/Golf are the same platform. The A4/Passat were the same platform. The Touareg/Q7/Cayenne are the same platform. There is plenty of overlap between the brands, beyond just platforms as well, all the way to transmissions, engines, etc.

I'm not sure I'd hold up Audi as "the way forward." Regardless, you and others on here premise your arguments on the idea that somehow Ford isn't already competing with Audi/BMW/MB on a fairly even basis, which I assure is the fact outside the US. We don't get decontented BMWs here, but they exist elsewhere. Ford competes with the Germans head to head in Europe. There is no Lincoln. There is Ford. Audi/VW tries to cover many bases with Audi/VW/SEAT. Ford has Ford. BMW has Mini/BMW. MB has MB/Smart (admittedly a very small brand). But, BMW has a Mini based X1, and MB shares a platform with Nissan as the A-class and Q30.

The short story is, there isn't a precisely OTBE situation here. All things are not equal when comparing Lincoln. For now it is essentially a very small localized part of a very powerful global brand. Lincoln won't be leading Ford anywhere, because Ford is THE global brand.
 

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Yet another great comment from the blog section, by SYJ:

Predictable commentary from typical american auto reviewers. It was entirely pointless because most of the editors make it clear they don't like Lincoln and think it has NO chance to be competitive. If that is the case why bother to debate the merits of the Continental? The debate about whether or not it was stupid to roll out the new grille on the MKZ was absurd. Do you people think the average consumer pays attention to internet auto show coverage? 99% of Americans have no idea about the 2017 MKZ being shown at an earlier autoshow. The fact that the new grille was already shown on that car will have ZERO impact on Continental sales. Its a total waste of time to review a car with this level of scrutiny without any infotmation on pricing or how it drives. You have several "experts" from AB pronouncing it a failure because they sat in it for 5min at the auto show. Lincoln has suggested this car will start at less than $50k which means it will be priced like a 5 or E (barely, since those cars are moving well into the 60k and 70k range) while offering the space of the 7, CT6 and A8. You cannot make any educated predictions on how it will sell without pricing and feature information. Also, the people who keep saying Lincoln needs to pay more attention to Cadillac obviously don't look at the sales charts. Cadillacs RWD sedans are struggling in spite of critical acclaim. Why in the world would Lincoln be desperate to copy cadillac? There is also a lot if idiotic talk about how Lincoln "should" be investing in crossovers. Ever heard of the MKX (brand new) or MKC (less than 2 years old)? CAdillac in comparison currently sells ONE 7 year old crossover which is about to be replaced and they have already said their next model wont be here until 2018. Lincoln has 2 competitive luxury crossovers now and they should be looking to add a competitive replacement for the MKT. The conversation above shows that the US auto media are predictable and close minded and obsessed with worship of all things German. It's pathetic and it would be great to see some independent and original thought out there. Based on the pictures, styling and features I see nothing about the Continental that CLEARLY indicates it's not competitive. Nothing. It's main weakness is the 6 speed auto but the reality most car buyers have no idea how many gears are in their vehicles. It is premature to declare this a failure just because some people expected a 600hp AWD sedan with concept car looks for 30% less than the price of a German compact luxury model. Wasn't going to happen. And even if it did the same doubters would be saying "I just don't see how Lincoln expects to sell any of these 600hp AWD luxury sedans". Also, the guy who said that Ford is trying to kill Lincoln is clueless. Ford is investing billions into Lincoln and they need them to be successful to boost profits. That is why everyone wants luxury brands- they make far more money than conventional brands because consumers actually believe it costs more to design and built a luxury car when that isn't really the case. Ford could kill mercury easily because there was no profit advantage to mercury- there is definitely the potential for huge profits with a successful Lincoln brand- hence Ford's willingness to sign big checks.
 

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Not all the people at FIN are like that... but the ones that are do tend to drive down the collective IQ a quite a bit. Based on my observations, they tend to be a bit less forgiving of trolls over at GMI, and the quality of the discussion is much better as a result.
You do seem far more willing to argue points that directly conflict with reality. So, I grant you that your issue probably isn't IQ, it is probably something more insidious.

You consistently fail to regard the market as a whole. In the neighborhood I live in, which is full of 5,000-10,000 sq ft homes, there isn't a single 5ser, 7ser, A8, A7, etc. But, there are a crap ton of King Ranch and Limiteds.

Gee, I wonder where Ford puts the research dollars. Gee, I wonder if BMW would like to have Ford's portfolio of $50-70k 4dr sedans (with open trunks) (for comparison, BMW sold 44k 5ser, how many King ranch and Limiteds do you think Ford sold?).

Lincoln isn't that important in the grand scheme for Ford. It is itself a niche, and sedans in that niche are another niche.

Lets put this into perspective. Cadillac, even "wanting it more(lol)," sold 23,167 CTS in 2015. Lincoln Sold 30,901 MKZs. That's 33% more than a highly-invested dynamically-superior platform. There is no argument about that. So, what is the purpose of the investment? (Also, for comparison, Dec. sales were 3,200 MKZ, 3,000 CTS, and 3,000 5ser).

You're going to need to show me the purpose behind the massive investment you're calling for that doesn't even guarantee a result.

Another comparison: Infiniti. Infiniti has an entire portfolio of cars/suvs. Until the Q30 hits, they had a full portfolio covering from the Q50 to the QX80. Even with all that investment they totaled 133,000 sales, about 32% more than a brand with essentially 3 somewhat recent vehicles (the Nav doesn't count, it was the mildest of freshenings). And, there is no arguing the Infiniti sedans are dynamically better machines than what Lincoln is turning out.

So, again, justify your position that Ford is somehow failing by not dumping billions into a bonfire? BMW is a global brand. MB is a global brand. They can spread development of a 7ser or S-Class over the globe. Lincoln has the US and developing markets in the ME and China. Can they justify the development dollars in a market where even BMW only manages to move 9,700 full size luxury cars a year?

You arguments are those of a 15 yr old kid. I'd rather Ford spend some of that cash developing a Focus RS that competes with S3s and GLA45s than spend it developing an A-Class Lincoln. There isn't a need for one. It would be wasted money. Where is GM's competitor? Anything? Raptor? STs? They cede those markets because they're wasting their cash on Caddy.

My old economics professor on day one of class asked everyone what the point of a widget factory was. Of course we all said "to make widgets," to which he replied, "no, to make money!"

So, with that as a back-drop, your consistent ramblings are just that, ramblings. Show me how or why Ford needs to divert investment from its current course to put into a risky and likely unprofitable venture.

Ultimately, I would love to see Ford cede some territory to Lincoln. I think the case of the missing Taurus is part of that. Ford should give the Fusion some head-room and start Lincoln in the mid-to-full size or more. GM eventually will have to face the consequences of its structure. There is no Chevy in Europe. There is Vauxhall and Opel. The Chevy experiment failed miserably. There is no Buick in Europe, but Buick is big in China.

The Avista is a fabulous looking coupe. How do they make it? Would you honestly make Caddy's already difficult job more-so? Lincoln/Ford doesn't face this problem. Ford can slowly build Lincoln as the Chinese market grows. Having 2 of the 3 major markets would allow Ford to eventually enter into the EU, if they want, with a consistent and coherent plan, not one just because ZEE GERMANS!

I think Ford is making a smart safe play with Lincoln. Dumping billions to chase ego is not just wrong, it borders on malfeasance. Too much of what you claim is necessary belies reality.
 
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