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Re: 2018 Honda Accord: Dad's Civic?

Honda Finally moved to struts on the Accord



The problem with falling behind is that You are in the positon where you cannot no longer afford to take incremental Steps forward, but you are forced to make leaps and Revolutionary changes, which increases Risk, and money.

Ford in 2010 had to make a leap from the C170 architecture to the gen 2 C1 architecture, and will have to make another leap to the C3 platform, which looks to be behind the competition when it launches in 2020.

You can't take breaks or short cuts to success, Ford no longer can afford to launch and leave and hope to catch up, it isn't working.

the compromises of the past have left Ford in this position where the mustang grew while the Camaro shrunk, the focus is only 100 lbs lighter than the Accord, and 100lbs heavier than the larger Civic.
Falling behind is not always a bad thing, at least, not in the entire realm of the business.
It comes down to spending/balancing available budget where you priorities are most, and actually generating a profit (kind of a big deal). So where are your priorities? If you are 3rd or 4th place in sales, and you stretch your product life cycle a couple years while keeping it fresh with styling, tech and power upgrades - are you hurting your business? Clearly Ford has other priorities at the moment, like trucks, CUV's, autonomy, electrification, etc. So only so much budget to go around. Otherwise, you are blowing all your profit, to stay current or in the lead on every single product. That is just not sustainable. Nobody has ever done that.

And regardless, no matter how far you fall, you can ALWAYS get it back, with the right product.
Don't believe the cliches.
 

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Ford CUVs are just as old as their cars however, some like Explorer are the oldest in their segments by far and growing older. Ford is pretty good at taking very old things and keeping them fresh with very minimal investment thanks to their strategy of updating plug-in systems instead of the entire car (engines, electronics, features, etc.). Regular visual refreshes are less costly and allow them to extend their product life far beyond the standard in the industry. Ford can usually get a decade out of a design and platform just by updating the swappable pieces. Explorer will be 10 years old on the same body (platform is twice that age), Edge and MKX were 10 years old before they were replaced (platforms even older), same with F-150 and Mustang. Others much longer like Escape and Expedition and so forth.
 

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What Ford is good at, is investing engineering dollars where customers will notice, not just change for the sake of it. If you have a good platform to begin with and then engineer a massive amount of improvements that the customer feels and appreciates, that is in many ways far better than all new with many shortcomings. The Explorer SUV is an example of an excellent product that has been refreshed and updated in so many ways, and that is why it is a sales champ.
 

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Re: 2018 Honda Accord: Dad's Civic?

And regardless, no matter how far you fall, you can ALWAYS get it back, with the right product.
Lincoln and Cadillac were once standard bearers, now they're also rans.

The original Taurus owned the large sedan market, now Ford isn't even bothering to try.

The Navigator was once THE full size luxury SUV, now even with massively upgraded new version on the horizon it'll remain a challenger to the Escalade.

For as good as the Fusion and new Malibu are neither are, or have been a serious challenger to the Camry and Accord, and both fall behind even the average at best Altima.

The right product will not put any of those products back on top without those who're currently on top getting hit with a major, extended misstep. The F-Series will remain the top selling truck line so long as Ford doesn't screw up, no matter how good the offerings from GM, Ram, Toyota, and Nissan are.

Further, much of what puts Toyota and Honda at the top of so many segments is the history of not screwing up, much like Ford and the F-Series, it's about reputation built over decades. Fall behind and you just put a serious gap in your built up reputation. When nobody builds a bad vehicle you cannot afford to be perceived as average for any length of time or you'll find yourself in a perpetual uphill climb.

And finally, consider all the problems Toyota was going through a few years back and also Honda with their uninspired products, even with those missteps Ford wasn't even close to catching them with their brand new and highly regarded Fusion. I don't think the gap in sales between the Fusion and Camry was ever less than 100k. A good decade long run doesn't change minds, it'll take a few of them.
 

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The 2013 model year brought us brand new Accords, Camry's, and Fusions.
2018 MY brings us brand new Accords & Camry's, but the 2nd year of a mild update for Fusion.
What MY will bring us the next new Fusion?
From my point of view, the 2013 Fusion's exterior looks much cleaner and more cohesive than the refresh. I still think it looks better than the 2017 Accord and Camry, but people trading in a 13' or 14' or coming off a 15' or 16' lease want something that does not look the same as what they are coming out of.


As for interior dimensions, Fusion still holds its own.
--------------- Fusion------------Accord
Leg room f/r 44.3/38.3 ---- - 42.3/40.4 (Fusion +2 in front/ Accord +2 in back)
Head room f/r 39.2/37.9---- 39.5/37.3 (Accord + 0.3 front/ Fusion + 0.6 in back)
Shoulder f/r 57.8/56.9---- -- 58.3/56.5 (Accord + 0.5 front/ Fusion + 0.4 in back)


The 2018 Camry also falls short of the Fusion in several metrics.
 

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Re: 2018 Honda Accord: Dad's Civic?

Lincoln and Cadillac were once standard bearers, now they're also rans.

The original Taurus owned the large sedan market, now Ford isn't even bothering to try.

The Navigator was once THE full size luxury SUV, now even with massively upgraded new version on the horizon it'll remain a challenger to the Escalade.

For as good as the Fusion and new Malibu are neither are, or have been a serious challenger to the Camry and Accord, and both fall behind even the average at best Altima.

The right product will not put any of those products back on top without those who're currently on top getting hit with a major, extended misstep. The F-Series will remain the top selling truck line so long as Ford doesn't screw up, no matter how good the offerings from GM, Ram, Toyota, and Nissan are.

Further, much of what puts Toyota and Honda at the top of so many segments is the history of not screwing up, much like Ford and the F-Series, it's about reputation built over decades. Fall behind and you just put a serious gap in your built up reputation. When nobody builds a bad vehicle you cannot afford to be perceived as average for any length of time or you'll find yourself in a perpetual uphill climb.

And finally, consider all the problems Toyota was going through a few years back and also Honda with their uninspired products, even with those missteps Ford wasn't even close to catching them with their brand new and highly regarded Fusion. I don't think the gap in sales between the Fusion and Camry was ever less than 100k. A good decade long run doesn't change minds, it'll take a few of them.
Fusion was moving a lot closer to both of them until recently.
 

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Re: 2018 Honda Accord: Dad's Civic?

Fusion was moving a lot closer to both of them until recently.
Fusion closed the gap, but never got closer than 100K+. Remember also that Toyota was dealing with a crap ton of recalls when the current Fusion debuted. So even with a very well received new product and a top competitor on the ropes it was still a distant 3rd, sometimes 4th.

My point is it's not as easy as releasing an excellent product from time to time to climb that ladder, you have to consistently be seen as a top competitor for that reputation to stick. Ford knows this which is why they prioritize the F-series before all else, it is the one segment in which they rule the roost and to lose that reputation would be the end of Ford as we know it.
 

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Re: 2018 Honda Accord: Dad's Civic?

Fusion closed the gap, but never got closer than 100K+. Remember also that Toyota was dealing with a crap ton of recalls when the current Fusion debuted. So even with a very well received new product and a top competitor on the ropes it was still a distant 3rd, sometimes 4th.

My point is it's not as easy as releasing an excellent product from time to time to climb that ladder, you have to consistently be seen as a top competitor for that reputation to stick. Ford knows this which is why they prioritize the F-series before all else, it is the one segment in which they rule the roost and to lose that reputation would be the end of Ford as we know it.
Oh I know and agree with it. I was just saying the Fusion was pulling closer to them. Its' refresh I'm sure left a lot to be desired with repeat customers.....and there's the whole crossover > sedan thing too.
 

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It's also really hard to reassemble a team to develop a product that they are very rusty on, it ultimately takes generations of products to come back to a leadership position once you forgot how to be the leader.

The Explorer is an example of a product that Ford completely mishandled but resurrected very successfully. But that really is the only example in Ford's history that comes to mind where they had completely lost any form of leadership position despite founding the segment. They never regained any sort of leadership position in competitive segments they once dominated like Compacts and Midsize sedans and they have a very hard time sustainably entering a segment lead by others like minivans and full-size SUVs. The F-Series and Vans are their bread and butter which they own at a cultural level, they understand these customer better than any other and value it more than anything else so they put their highest priority on it. Everything else is a harder nut to crack and to maintain. Ford is best when it gets ahead of everybody else and the fact it's falling behind in so many areas makes it a challenging climb.
 

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It's also really hard to reassemble a team to develop a product that they are very rusty on, it ultimately takes generations of products to come back to a leadership position once you forgot how to be the leader...
considering the turn-over (up-or-out) and tech-curve (asymptote),
seems the only people still there gen-after-gen(of vehicles) are the Family(forever) and the other APPROVERS
...

...talk about "Forgetting How To Be Leaders"



the rest of your post, I can't address now, 'cept for
Navi
Taurus
minivans=never even tried tho invented in-house iirc
do Broncos count?
personal Lux
prolley everything other than pickups
(( Oh!
see you added some of the same while I was typing :joyous: ))
 
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