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Yeah, we don't have a need for a truck. Occasionally, we have to transport something that doesn't fit in the MKZ so I use my Audi Q7 for it. The Explorer will be my mother's vehicle. She wants to sit higher in her next vehicle but doesn't want to spend much more than what she's paying on the MKZ right now ($735/month) so I think she will enjoy the ST. The fact that the ST is a bit more fun to drive than her MKZ Hybrid is a nice add-on as well. And as I said, we really like the appearance of the ST. To be honest, I prefer that over the appearance of the Aviators you could get for that money. Only the Black Label models are nicer but they cost waaay more than the ST.

Another issue with trucks is that they don't fit into our garage - and that's a must for us.
I have had many trucks in the past, often believing that I need one frequently to justify it. But now I am a realist and recognize that there are many solutions, like borrowing one from family or friends, or renting/ buying a small trailer, or my new favorite, a cheap daily rental from Home Depot. Often, that is when I need the truck, while I am purchasing supplies. And when I do borrow or rent one, I recognize quickly how much I get tired of driving them. Especially the money wasted on gas, as I am always down around 17mpg avg.
I am averaging about 19mpg with my 2.7....but it’s winter and mpg goes down with remote starts....summer mpgs are close to 23mpg
 

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I am averaging about 19mpg with my 2.7....but it’s winter and mpg goes down with remote starts....summer mpgs are close to 23mpg
23mpg avg huh.

It is rated at 21mpg. I know a lot who own the same popular package, and nobody comes close. I even borrowed my brother's 10 spd model with 2.7L for a whole week, and just like him, I struggled to get to 18mpg. Even the Diesel is rated at 22mmpg, and you somehow managed to exceed that. Good for you. Really. I mean it.
 

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What you are experiencing is likely what a lot of Ford clients are doing
I wouldn't necessarily say Ford customers but certainly Lincoln customers.

My SA at my Lincoln dealership where I leased about half a dozen vehicles from so far was actually pretty open about that. He told me that Lincoln is now focusing more on high $$$ customers who don't care as much about payments. That would be a reason why the incentives (especially those for loyalty) disappeared. On my last MKZ, they had a bunch of incentives for me - probably about $5K. On a lease, that makes a difference.

So without a doubt, they will get some new customers with the Aviator but they will lose a couple who simply expect some appreciation for their loyalty - including me.
 

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What you are experiencing is likely what a lot of Ford clients are doing
I wouldn't necessarily say Ford customers but certainly Lincoln customers.

My SA at my Lincoln dealership where I leased about half a dozen vehicles from so far was actually pretty open about that. He told me that Lincoln is now focusing more on high $$$ customers who don't care as much about payments. That would be a reason why the incentives (especially those for loyalty) disappeared. On my last MKZ, they had a bunch of incentives for me - probably about $5K. On a lease, that makes a difference.

So without a doubt, they will get some new customers with the Aviator but they will lose a couple who simply expect some appreciation for their loyalty - including me.
I almost crossed the bridge that you are crossing, I had already swapped out a Ford Escape Titanium for a Mini Countryman AWD PHEV - my lease payments went up $20 but I have 4y of free maintenance.

So it was time to decide what to do with the Explorer, the Limited was priced at the same level as the BMW X5 - granted BMW was offering me $4k off....

I decided to stay with Ford because my dealer was able to bring the price of the F150 wayyy down into acceptable territory at the time.
 

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Well, the new Highlander Hellboy was going on about has gotten **** reviews. They called the interior an overly elaborate mishmash of too many textures, colors, and plastics...and it was too expensive compared to the Telluride.

I have seen a crap load of Tellurides around. But, I’m sure like every Kia, it will be a rattletrap after 2-3 years.
 

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Well, the new Highlander Hellboy was going on about has gotten **** reviews. They called the interior an overly elaborate mishmash of too many textures, colors, and plastics...and it was too expensive compared to the Telluride.

I have seen a crap load of Tellurides around. But, I’m sure like every Kia, it will be a rattletrap after 2-3 years.
Read the first review in full: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30261674/2020-toyota-highlander-drive/

Same thing...first reviews are always too high level, I’m interested in reading the full one.

Note, the hybrid gets f amazing MPGs now!
 

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^

The Highlander is easily the most unattractive minivan based CUV on the market, regardless of what C&D thinsks....and the hybrid model must be the least desirable, given it's wimpy I4 NA engine, lack of decent towing/ hauling, and lame FWD based driving dynamics. Ugh.....and that interior!!! What are they thinking?

Yup, Toyota will sell plenty of them. No accounting for taste.


From the review;
LOWS: Snooze-worthy driving experience, fussy interior detailing, third row is still tight for adults.
 

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^

The Highlander is easily the most unattractive minivan based CUV on the market, regardless of what C&D thinsks....and the hybrid model must be the least desirable, given it's wimpy I4 NA engine, lack of decent towing/ hauling, and lame FWD based driving dynamics. Ugh.....and that interior!!! What are they thinking?

Yup, Toyota will sell plenty of them. No accounting for taste.


From the review;
LOWS: Snooze-worthy driving experience, fussy interior detailing, third row is still tight for adults.
I think the interior looks great, much better with the 12in screen...

Isn’t the Highlander the new best selling midsize SUV? 😉 it has claimed the Explorer’s title - ****ty!
 

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Well, at least for the ST, I have yet to see derogatory reviews about the driving experience. In fact, quite the opposite. The interior certainly is not high end but if it drives great, I wouldn't want it to be vice versa.

https://youtu.be/5jyqxscXD9E?t=1440

Kia needs to get their act together in regards to production. I don't care how great their high end material is if I can't even order it. And no, I'm not paying $10K over MSRP on a Kia, either...
 

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Well, at least for the ST, I have yet to see derogatory reviews about the driving experience. In fact, quite the opposite. The interior certainly is not high end but if it drives great, I wouldn't want it to be vice versa.

https://youtu.be/5jyqxscXD9E?t=1440

Kia needs to get their act together in regards to production. I don't care how great their high end material is if I can't even order it. And no, I'm not paying $10K over MSRP on a Kia, either...
Unfortunately the ST hasn’t been widely tested yet, rumours are Ford is now limiting Explorers to the press in an attempt to avoid the bad press - they did this before back in 2010...

I.e. Kia
What you mean you can’t order them? There are boat loads of them at dealers now, I went to see one out of curiosity and whole F...that was Mercedes level interior quality and design. I am in Canada and the SX I drove was priced similarly to the XLT Explorer...
 

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I.e. Kia
What you mean you can’t order them? There are boat loads of them at dealers now, I went to see one out of curiosity and whole F...that was Mercedes level interior quality and design. I am in Canada and the SX I drove was priced similarly to the XLT Explorer...
I was initially interested in an SX Prestige and even if you were willing to pay the crazy mark-up, you simply could not order that trim for months:

https://tellurideforum.org/threads/telluride-sx-prestige-on-backorder-for-a-few-months-cannot-be-ordered.858/
 

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I.e. Kia
What you mean you can’t order them? There are boat loads of them at dealers now, I went to see one out of curiosity and whole F...that was Mercedes level interior quality and design. I am in Canada and the SX I drove was priced similarly to the XLT Explorer...
I was initially interested in an SX Prestige and even if you were willing to pay the crazy mark-up, you simply could not order that trim for months:

https://tellurideforum.org/threads/telluride-sx-prestige-on-backorder-for-a-few-months-cannot-be-ordered.858/
Danggg!! No wonder I’ve been seeing so many of them on the road, must be a big success for Kia.
 

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Danggg!! No wonder I’ve been seeing so many of them on the road, must be a big success for Kia.
It certainly is.

By now, you can actually order that specific trim again but you still have to pay full MSRP.

Shows you that many manufacturers are having their problems when launching new vehicles. Ford/Lincoln had some QC issues resulting in the new Explorers/Aviators sitting on lots before getting released and Kia by dramatically underestimating the demand for the high end trim on the Telluride. While the two issues aren't quite the same, the result for the customers was practically identical: Not being able to get what they desired.
 

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It certainly is.

By now, you can actually order that specific trim again but you still have to pay full MSRP.

Shows you that many manufacturers are having their problems when launching new vehicles. Ford/Lincoln had some QC issues resulting in the new Explorers/Aviators sitting on lots before getting released and Kia by dramatically underestimating the demand for the high end trim on the Telluride. While the two issues aren't quite the same, the result for the customers was practically identical: Not being able to get what they desired.
This is where Kia screwed the pooch. ALthough they only sell about 5-6K units per month, they should have learned from Ford's years of premium trim SUV success, and planned accordingly....rather than lose your high margin sale in addition to many others. F

This only showcases Ford's brilliance in this segment, all while offering so many variants. In fact, few can compete with the range of full sized RWD SUV that includes several premium trims, hybrid, PHEV, as well as an ultra performance model. I can think of a couple Germans to compete with all that, but certainly nothing from Kia or Toyota or any other minivan based SUV.
 

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It certainly is.

By now, you can actually order that specific trim again but you still have to pay full MSRP.

Shows you that many manufacturers are having their problems when launching new vehicles. Ford/Lincoln had some QC issues resulting in the new Explorers/Aviators sitting on lots before getting released and Kia by dramatically underestimating the demand for the high end trim on the Telluride. While the two issues aren't quite the same, the result for the customers was practically identical: Not being able to get what they desired.
This is where Kia screwed the pooch. ALthough they only sell about 5-6K units per month, they should have learned from Ford's years of premium trim SUV success, and planned accordingly....rather than lose your high margin sale in addition to many others. F

This only showcases Ford's brilliance in this segment, all while offering so many variants. In fact, few can compete with the range of full sized RWD SUV that includes several premium trims, hybrid, PHEV, as well as an ultra performance model. I can think of a couple Germans to compete with all that, but certainly nothing from Kia or Toyota or any other minivan based SUV.
The ‘SUV’ success that you claim ain’t happening...take a look at the cold hard numbers...

The only Ford in the top 10 now is the F150 (but with sales down as welll...)

3 out of the 10 best sellers are cars...some have increased their sales share.

Ford dealers are already struggling to move inventory with numbers now ballooning to 90 days!

So for sure Kia didn’t expect that Explorer owners would show up to buy a Telluride after having sticker shock over the new one...good for them! Once stocks are normalized they might be able to swing into the top 3 7 seaters, currently dominated by the Highlander, Pilot and Atlas! —yup Explorer sales diminished so much that they got booted out of the top 3.
 

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Is the new Explorer in trouble sales-wise?

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/ford-sales-miss-estimates-as-explorer-suv-drops-15-1.1369605

‘ Ford said Explorer sales improved significantly in the final three months compared with the previous quarter, with December representing its best month for retail sales to individual consumers. Still, year over year, the sales have continued to slump sharply.

The automaker had earlier said the Explorer factory was running at full tilt and sales were returning to normal.

“For Q4, availability won’t be an issue. We’ll be able to hit our stride with Explorer starting now,” Mark LaNeve, U.S. sales chief, said on Oct. 2.
The shares fell 1% to $9.12 at 8:59 a.m. in New York, before the markets opened.’
 

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The crazy part is that somehow...Ford managed to sell almost as many Fusions as Explorer in 2019!!! That’s for a car that has received 0 investment from Ford...such a dumb idea to get rid of it...

And gosh, sales of the Escape were a mess...

Edge and Flex somehow managed increases!

A good summary for Trucks - looks like some Ford customer must have also migrated to Ram:
For the year: F-Series sales dropped 1.4% to 896,526.

For the year: Silverado sales slipped 2% to 575,600.

For the year: Ram sales rose 18% to a record 633,694.
 
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