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Discussion Starter #1
OK, so we're all (excepting the board's case of VD) agreeably happy that our beloved and original pony car is the numero uno sports coupe here and abroad, leading to greater brand/model recognition for an already legendary vehicle.

I have to believe that this changes some things regarding the Mustang's status within FoMoCo.

I was in my late teens when the movement to make the Mustang go FWD hit the news, and I admittedly gnashed my teeth at Ford's willingness to let their best-known performance car languish on (albeit evolved) Carter-era bones for so many years. 25 years on Fairmont bits? Granted, the Fairmont was pretty decent when new...but then again, 200 horsepower was big news in 1979.

So, the point: with all the new recognition, does this mean that RWD will actually get some wider-spread prioritizing with Ford?

The Mustang should be stating its case to remain in its basic layout, and other Ford market niches from everywhere from Australia to Lincoln have long had yearnings/appreciation for RWD products. While I know full well that it cannot become the dominant layout for Ford's cars-fwd packages much better, and has traction advantages in adverse weather-could the Mustang's momentum lead to a dedicated architecture for multiple models?

I've seen the rumors that the new D6 platform will have modular capability in terms of drive wheels, but I have concerns that it could be too compromised if used too widely.

In any case, that was on the front of my brain, and I thought I'd share.
 

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I think the pretty obvious answer is yes, RWD is making a comeback of sorts in Dearborn.

1. Regarding D6, if it's truly known as such inside Ford is obviously for large vehicles, thus performance is of a much lesser priority. Yes, better balance will always be welcomed at any market level, and could pay significant dividends for Lincoln, but it needn't be front and center.

2. The fact that S550 will be replaced by S650 more than a year earlier than planned if 100% in response to Lincoln, not Mustang. The Mustang is outselling its competition by a good margin, there is no reason to to knock a year off S550's ROI when you're exceeding expectations. Thus my theory that the shortcomings of S550 that caused Lincoln to pass are being resolved with the evolution to S650 and they are going to launch when ready, thus we get a new Mustang in the deal early. Thank you Lincoln!

RWD is not going to suddenly become Ford's focus, but it will finally have a seat at the table in those markets in which it makes sense, and cents!
 

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Mercury C557
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^ :thumb: @ZanatWork
&
"Company insiders cited by Motor Mag said a while ago the mega-hatch will get carbon fiber reinforced plastic bodywork, carbon fiber brakes, and forged aluminum suspension parts to shave off weight. For the same purpose, Ford apparently plans to remove some of the sound insulation for what will be a stripped-out cabin."

This could be the first fruit of Ford's advancement with mass production of carbon fibre body parts Trickling down what they have learned from the GT. Which could mean a version of the 2017 Mustang could get light-weighted and a speed boost. I would think Ford is highly aware of the 200+ lb weight advantage the Camaro has with it's new platform. But with the current platform, Ford could use carbon fiber to level the weight playing field and expanding the Mustang's performance lead.
:thumb: jumping 'ahead' to composites with Mustang makes a LOT of sense to me
plus
imho electrification will be an equally powerful design consideration
 

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Mercury C557
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1. Regarding D6, if it's truly known as such inside Ford is obviously for large vehicles, thus performance is of a much lesser priority. Yes, better balance will always be welcomed at any market level, and could pay significant dividends for Lincoln, but it needn't be front and center...
just my usual reminder about CAFE leading to longer wheelbases for ALL segments to bend/play/defeat the rules


2. The fact that S550 will be replaced by S650 more than a year earlier than planned if 100% in response to Lincoln, not Mustang. The Mustang is outselling its competition by a good margin, there is no reason to to knock a year off S550's ROI when you're exceeding expectations. Thus my theory that the shortcomings of S550 that caused Lincoln to pass are being resolved with the evolution to S650 and they are going to launch when ready, thus we get a new Mustang in the deal early. Thank you Lincoln!...
basically agree
just that I also feel that timing has to do with Mr. Mulally leaving before any Lincoln plans could begin to really move.
THEN it was a matter of compromising the Mustang's previously planned date with Lincoln's immediate (imho) needs.
So imho either
- S650 will be a partial step on the way to cD6-ism (no platforms anymore)
or
- could be a bigger step than Mustang was going to get without STARstang ( THO LeMans+etc might have bearing ...wondering what price a ~2030 Mustang is being designed towards -&- if it could become or become-PAIRed-with something in the Corvettes' (current) price ranges??)
 

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RWD is a value for some market niches: luxury sedans and coupes, european sport sedans, Australia, sport cars. So, is not a crazy idea that the upcoming new Mustang platform can be used for those niches. A new Mustang coupe and convertible, a new midsize sport sedan for Europe and Australia (China?), a new luxury midsize sedan and coupe for Lincoln.

And, i insist, the Mustang may be the origin for a new Mustang sub-brand, with the current coupe and convertible, plus a sedan, a shooting-brake (for Europe) and a 4-door coupe. Even some kind of crossover can be made based on the Mustang.
 

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So glad RWD is making a comeback of sorts..... Will be interesting to see how & if more options develop in the coming years.


Cort > www.oldcarsstronghearts.com
pigValve.paceMaker.cowValve | 1979 Caprice Classic (needs new owner)
"It was like a lighted match had been tossed into my soul" __ Trisha Yearwood __ 'The Song Remembers When'
 

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RWD is a value for some market niches: luxury sedans and coupes, european sport sedans, Australia, sport cars. So, is not a crazy idea that the upcoming new Mustang platform can be used for those niches. A new Mustang coupe and convertible, a new midsize sport sedan for Europe and Australia (China?), a new luxury midsize sedan and coupe for Lincoln.
That's what I always thought. Also, I think that Ford needs to offer a mid-engine sports car above Mustang, but well below GT. Right at $50k - $84k+ where Corvette, Boxster/Cayman lives. Mustang can't reach that far because it has to remain 'affordable'. This sports car could be more connected with GT than Mustang, via mid-engine design along with external design elements. Mustang has it's own design language and front engine design that is core to Mustang.
 

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That's what I always thought. Also, I think that Ford needs to offer a mid-engine sports car above Mustang, but well below GT. Right at $50k - $84k+ where Corvette, Boxster/Cayman lives. Mustang can't reach that far because it has to remain 'affordable'. This sports car could be more connected with GT than Mustang, via mid-engine design along with external design elements. Mustang has it's own design language and front engine design that is core to Mustang.

If the Mustang shrank slightly (size of a '67) and used more high-strength lightweight steel and aluminum and weighed 200+lbs less. That thing could be a lower-priced 2+2 alternative to a Corvette.
 

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^ check the dimensions for the 3er/4er that I've posted ALL over FiN
considerably longer wlb and considerably shorter ovL than the S550

Bloggin said:
...Right at $50k - $84k+ where Corvette, Boxster/Cayman lives...
(not awake) ...afaik Stingray start$ a bit over $60k & there's posts somewhere about a nextgen that might be separate from "ordinary" Corvettes being mid-engined
just-imho
an "ordinary" STARstang oughta go from $50k-to-near-$90k
&
what do top Shelbys go for?
&
a carbonfibre midengine Lincoln (a chop IS in the Mission for quite some time!), should start maybe $99,999.99
?
:angel-imho
 

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^.....Corvette starts at $55.400 and the Shelby GT350R starts at $63k. I would think a new 'lower volume than Mustang' mid-engine sports car should start at about $65k. While at the same time a next gen Focus coupe and convertible.

I really think fun to drive coupes and convertibles are on the rise. The economy is better and gas is cheap, so people are looking to buy and drive what they want, not what the think they are limited to or have to drive. The Miata is a good barometer of that with sales up 103% for the year.
 

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^.....I think you are talking about the base model which is the Corvette Stingray($55,400) and the top of the line Corvette Z06($79,400). They can all sell the Corvette Stingray, but maybe not the Z06. Wow...$24,000 to go 1.2 seconds faster from 0-60.

I think many years ago the Stingray was the top of the line Corvette, but now it's the base model with Z06 as the most powerful.
 

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^.....I think you are talking about the base model which is the Corvette Stingray($55,400) and the top of the line Corvette Z06($79,400). They can all sell the Corvette Stingray, but maybe not the Z06. Wow...$24,000 to go 1.2 seconds faster from 0-60.

I think many years ago the Stingray was the top of the line Corvette, but now it's the base model with Z06 as the most powerful.
Stingray (Sting Ray), was used to identify the C2 and C3 (till '77) Corvettes. These 2 generation Vettes were based on shark concepts (Mako Shark & Mako Shark II).

If you think about it, for the Mustang, it would cost you $15,400 to shave off half a second to 60mph. (GT to GT350).
 

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A Rear Wheel Drive comeback is overdue for Ford. Unfortunately, they left a hole when they did not address RWD 4-door sedans.

With its current and welcome new strategy, I still don't see how Ford is going to give Lincoln any real cachet. No-one named Lincoln dominates the boardroom and shareholders' meetings of the Ford Motor Company. Everything points to Lincoln remaining the poor (rich) stepchild within Ford.

If Ford needs a RWD sports sedan based on the S650, they can't sell it as a Lincoln in Europe. There, it would have to be a Ford. It seems Lincoln will never sell a car that is not based on (and competing with) a Ford. Is my hope that Lincoln cars would evolve into something other than gussied-up Fords being dashed on the rocks? Could Mulally have been right after all?
 

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^ *IF* FoMoCo is going to build everything less-truckish than the F-150 using (at least part of) the unified engineering of cD6/A.M.P,
which will require (imho) unprecedented flexibility,
then
I see no reason that Lincoln variants couldn't be 'different enough' that the gussied-up cliché would be completely baseless
(BESIDES:
the idea that Fords
are decontented Lincolns(& Mercs)...
...the S650/S### could PROVE that)
+
Europe never was on this decade's to-Do list
++
post-BrExit-Yurpland might not be Luxland for the near future (even tho most Rich always suffer less than any other demographic if at all)
+++
between electrification and autonomy, imho pure-Rwd is going-going-gon


re: Vette
I was told at intro-time that the "StingRay" was a step-up;
seems that dealer-critter was wrong
 

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A Rear Wheel Drive comeback is overdue for Ford. Unfortunately, they left a hole when they did not address RWD 4-door sedans.

With its current and welcome new strategy, I still don't see how Ford is going to give Lincoln any real cachet. No-one named Lincoln dominates the boardroom and shareholders' meetings of the Ford Motor Company. Everything points to Lincoln remaining the poor (rich) stepchild within Ford.

If Ford needs a RWD sports sedan based on the S650, they can't sell it as a Lincoln in Europe. There, it would have to be a Ford. It seems Lincoln will never sell a car that is not based on (and competing with) a Ford. Is my hope that Lincoln cars would evolve into something other than gussied-up Fords being dashed on the rocks? Could Mulally have been right after all?
Lincoln is in a funny position. They have the MKZ that is just about the wheelbase of the next gen C-Class/3-Series launched and launching soon. But it's too wide, and the body is too tall and long. Oh yeah, and the Lincoln is FWD/AWD.

My thought is that Lincoln is using the 'Quiet Luxury' concept, simply because it has no RWD platforms(too late to the game/late Lincoln turn around plan) to use to build luxury performance cars to directly compete with the Germans. So Lincoln had to use what they had to get the brand restarted. Which is why I think Ford is going overboard with Ford Performance, and targeting those RWD vehicles(Mustang, RS) after the RWD luxury brands. But this won't last too long, Lincoln profit margins can be so much greater. The 400hp MKZ and 400hp Continental, along with the updated AWD system that gives the 'feeling' of RWD under hard acceleration and powering out of corners, are two good indications of what is to come. Marketing the Quiet Luxury and Effortless Power, and mentioning the 400hp and 400 lb-ft torque....quietly.

These are very good place holders until next gen MKZ and Continental along with new 'large car' on new RWD architecture comes. This is why I expect the next gen MKZ will be the slightly smaller(S650 RWD/AWD architecture) DIRECT C-Class/3-Series competitor, while the RWD/AWDContinental maintains it's E-Class/5-Series position, and new RWD/AWD 'large car' takes on S-Class. Then we can get a coupe and convertible from the new MKZ and Lincoln is looking good from the car standpoint. Fusion/Mondeo would get a slightly wider, FWD version of the same platform.

But back to where I started.....I don't think we have seen but a fraction of the fruits of the big investment Ford has put into Lincoln yet. What I see now is foundation building, identity and perception building, along the necessary time for sales increases that justifies network/dealership upgrades and expansion. Along with a slower transition from marketing to the 70+ year old 'quiet luxury' consumer to 50 down to the 30s. Being very smart with mixing Quiet Luxury with Effortless Power.

I think it is the next gen S650 architecture that I see as really getting the product side to true Lincoln level, through next gen MKZ sedan, coupe and convertible. Lincoln needs to be able to bring it all to the table by then, along with bringing in more of the sub 40 demographic.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
The main point behind my original post is that the Mustang has always, throughout its history, been a "parts bin special" because pony cars don't turn in the sales of mainstream offerings. As much as I am just petty enough to enjoy the difficulties GM is having selling their Camaro/ATS/CTS, I'm also well aware that the chassis under those cars is constantly showered with praise, and only GM's capacity to screw things up is keeping them from having a true hit, platform-wise.

As much as the 2015 Mustang was largely new, most Fordophiles are well aware that it started as another evolutionary update...a story all too familiar to Mustang fans for 50+ years. The Falcon, Pinto, and Fairmont were humble beginnings to work from, and the LS platform was simplified for the "retro" 2015 model. Unless my information has been inaccurate, some DEW elements are under today's Mustang.

I'm hoping that the worldwide embracing of the Mustang means that the "bones" are truly prioritized this time around, and that the inevitable platform-mates help to create a long-term business case for a truly world-class chassis that can be a statement in excellence regardless what vehicle it underpins.

A common theme for Mustang handling achievements has been that it out-performs its ingredients. The current model was competing with many of the world's best cars for honors among the various scribes, so there really is no turning back to humbler expectations. I'm not sure if the S650 will be the full-on example of Ford's engineering prowess that I'd certainly like it to be, but I'm hoping that Ford sees how the Mustang has raised the bar for the company's expectations, overall.
 

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Texican said:
shooting brake...
The CTS-V comes in it...
used to


Zan, looking at gathered forecasts, seems there's a refresh for 2018my and all-new for 2021my
fwiw...

Bloggin said:
...My thought is that Lincoln is using the 'Quiet Luxury' concept, simply because it has no RWD platforms(too late to the game/late Lincoln turn around plan) to use to build luxury performance cars to directly compete with the Germans. So Lincoln had to use what they had to get the brand restarted. Which is why I think Ford is going overboard with Ford Performance, and targeting those RWD vehicles(Mustang, RS) after the RWD luxury brands. But this won't last too long...
tantalizing idea, B :thumb:
tho an old rant of mine put true-performance under the Ford Brand
while Lincoln '''made do''' with 'ample'
 

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^....yeah....because when we think about it, 'Quiet Luxury' is not going to reach much of the sub 50 demographic, where luxury = performance+luxury. But 'Quiet Luxury' will bring the demographic down from 70 to 50.
 
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