BEYOND UNCOVERED: Lincoln's Future Lineup SPECULATION

18513 Views 57 Replies 15 Participants Last post by Bloggin, May 30, 2018

2b2

Discussion Starter · Mar 17, 2018 (Edited)

9

just when you thought it was safe to go back into the Design Talent Center...
spurred on by AutoVerdict's Ford and Lincoln's Future Lineup = ordinary non-speculative assessment
a good source for realistic stuff^.

These ideas began when doing the model-by-model sales chart of JaguarLandRover,
not showing the comparison but JagLR's lineup lead DIRECTLY to this one for Lincoln
__________Core__________________
Navigator ––––– F150 - 3row - as is
InterContinental — cD6 – 3row - a$ big a$ Navi but $woopy/elegant, lightweight - 120"
Aviator ——–—— cD6 – 3row -- 116"
NautiluX –—–—– cD6 – 2row as is - 112"
Xsport/Macan –– cD6 – 2row - Mustang wheelbase - 108"
__________C2___________________
MKL ————— Edge – 3row? - 112"
MKG————— Escape – 2row - 109" (Louisville (Escape also Hermosillo))
MKC————— Maverick – compact - 106" (both built in Louisville)
__________all cD6_________________
STARbrake —— "Mach 1" – carish - 112" (FlatRock per MT - no surprise imho)
STARstang? —— sedan ––– car-sm - 112"
MKE " ———— BEVsedan --- car-sm - 112"
MARK ——— Aviator-based - car-med - 116"
_________Later/maybe_______________
Conti/transConti ———— carish-LG - 120"
'GR-1' —————— 2seat - Mustang wheelbase - 108"

— –O lo...attaching "car-ish" examples

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Nihar Mazumdar

· #41 · May 1, 2018

Done

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2b2

Discussion Starter · #42 · May 3, 2018 (Edited)

Jpd @ B0N said:
...if a CUV now equals a car with 30 mm higher ride height and plastic bits added,
does this say more about Ford doing an end run around CAFE and wanting to charge more for cars than
the bad news of cars apparently going away???
...Are we about to see smoke and mirrors as Ford kicks cars out of the North American nest to build other products and then, in walks the Chinese near-versions of what was just lost...

otoh
my Question for C2 [AND the e-platformitecture] is HOW many vehicles will the market support?
- each bodystyle
- each size-variant
Fomoco has to consider this for planning factory usage...

Plus, I'm wondering about creating Names/identities for the different variants
instead of just making them versions of the same model.
- - - - - - -
edit [from the Escape article I just posted]:

Autoblog said:
"it looks pretty much like the last Escape we saw, which in turn looks much like the new Focus"

which
looks alot like the last Focus... :facepalm:
WHICH
makes me think&hope that the main design energy is going into the e-platformitecture
:angel

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glyphics

· #43 · May 3, 2018

Nihar Mazumdar said:
Done

This seems like a trend so I’ll jump in.

Lincoln needs a flagship. It should be a luxury leader and it should be a proper sedan. The target is more Rolls Royce than S Class, fitting in with the “quiet luxury” theme. It has to be big. Driver and passengers will have room to spare and the option for interior bespoke customization is available for the discriminating. Programmable “coach doors” are standard. Timeless classic exterior styling should have presence on the road and in the driveway.

The car, almost CUV height, has RWD proportions mitigated by huge wheels with tires of relatively high aspect ratio for passive shock absorbance so that the flagship’s large size is not apparent when viewed from a distance. With plenty of room for batteries, the high output ICE complements the e-motors for thrilling performance when necessary and range extension when appropriate. The overall experience, however, should be silent, effortless power. Plug-in hybrid with 300 mile range on electric power alone will eliminate range anxiety once and for all. No reason why anything less than 600 hp shouldn’t be instantly available - one has to get past those lorries, right?

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2b2

Discussion Starter · #44 · May 3, 2018 (Edited)

2

^ if anything comes of that "Continental door" Conti... which speculated a wlb increase too
[ & imho could as easily include a V8 ]
That might allow a Z-replacing MARK to increase the sport** while RR gets targeted as well
afaik-lengths: RR Phantom 2018 - 227.2" -to- Phantom Extended Wlb - 233.9"

swiped ^ from sfbreh @ GMi
** Porsche Panamera - 195.7 - 115.0

&
for the 'e'
[ JUST noticed the virtual car has the new Focus's fog-to-side angle-ish styling ]

‘HoloLens’-Sept2017;321209 said:

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2b2

Discussion Starter · #45 · May 3, 2018 (Edited)

I'm under the impression that the electrics are a separate, new architecture ... for plug-ins & BEVs
maybe call it "E1"?
so wonder about just how many [if] C2 &or cD6 vehicles/variants will get the third transmission...
...hmm, starting to almost sound like one transmission PER architecture?

- - - - - - -

update/addit

bzcat @ B0N - Posted Today said:
...C2 is primarily going the route of 48V hybrid so eCVT is possible option. But the way 48V system works is probably more likely that these cars will keep the 6F or 8F transmissions.

For CD6, the whole point is the share the drivetrain development cost with F-150 hybrid so Ford wouldn't bother with eCVT. It's going to be the 10 speed auto.

Falc'man

· #46 · May 3, 2018

glyphics said:
This seems like a trend so I’ll jump in.

Lincoln needs a flagship. It should be a luxury leader and it should be a proper sedan. The target is more Rolls Royce than S Class, fitting in with the “quiet luxury” theme. It has to be big. Driver and passengers will have room to spare and the option for interior bespoke customization is available for the discriminating. Programmable “coach doors” are standard. Timeless classic exterior styling should have presence on the road and in the driveway.

The car, almost CUV height, has RWD proportions mitigated by huge wheels with tires of relatively high aspect ratio for passive shock absorbance so that the flagship’s large size is not apparent when viewed from a distance. With plenty of room for batteries, the high output ICE complements the e-motors for thrilling performance when necessary and range extension when appropriate. The overall experience, however, should be silent, effortless power. Plug-in hybrid with 300 mile range on electric power alone will eliminate range anxiety once and for all. No reason why anything less than 600 hp shouldn’t be instantly available - one has to get past those lorries, right?

I totally agree with this. Lincoln went in half-baked with the Continental, equipping with many appointments but forgot about the one drawcard that prospective buyers always expect - lots of horsepower. Realistically 400hp is good, but reality is perception and emotion are far greater influences in buying a prestige vehicle than Lincoln give credit for.

Use a detuned Predator (650hp) and they could easily sell the Continental for at least double the current price. All high rollers will want it, plus they don't want to be seen in something with a "cheap" retail.

When Ford made the GT so exclusive and put hurdles in place to get one, people tripped over themselves to buy one.

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2b2

Discussion Starter · #47 · May 8, 2018 (Edited)

beyond UNcovered drivetrain candidates

Navi; cD6: MARK-Z2, STARstangs, Conti2, Aviator

3.5tt 450hp ......... ?

cD6: MARK-Z2, STARstangs, Conti1, Conti2, Av, nautiluX

3.0tt+plugin[upto equal-hp more] &or
3.0tt+hybrid[upto half-hp more] &or
3.0tt 400hp

cD6: MKG/Macan?

2.7tt? 350hp .........+equal,+half

cD6;C2: MARK-Z2, STARstangs, Conti2, Av?, nautiluX, MKC

2.3tt 295-350hp ....+equal,+half

cD6;C2: MKG/Macan, MKC

2.0tt 240-300hp ....+equal,+half

cD6;C2: MARK-Z2, STARstangs, nautiluX, MKC

1.5tt 180-225hp ....+equal,+half = e-assist-Only

e1: ? Conti3, MARK-Z3, STARstangs2 ?

1.0tt 120-150hp? ...generator,+equal,+half

2b2

Discussion Starter · #48 · May 9, 2018 (Edited)

video I hope to watch very soon ... about inspiration for future Lincolns
from dealers' conference in Michigan

https://m.facebook.com/groups/30455...onbar&_rdr#s_372b01608962e8c534ba4770e9523574
"A sense of Seduction Vs Attack "
https://video-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v...=021d10eafe72646daca993d3ed23bc31&oe=5AF3AF3E
_________________Sanctuary
calm pure linear equilibrium
_________________ elegance
https://video-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v...=d7392853c8631d8babc08475bdb7a286&oe=5AF3AD90

- - - update - - -
" from the propeller era to the Jet Age "
https://video-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v...=c0621dcdf1ab546063caa4130dff915c&oe=5AF510E6

GREAT interior renderings! ...tho small/distant
https://video-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v...=a3aa9b0111ad5aabaea4be6ea51f2fb4&oe=5AF50FC1
and...
a surprise^starting 3:15

spudz64 said:

! :thumb: ! :thumb: ! :thumb: !

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FloridaMatt

· #49 · May 10, 2018

Falc'man said:
I totally agree with this. Lincoln went in half-baked with the Continental, equipping with many appointments but forgot about the one drawcard that prospective buyers always expect - lots of horsepower. Realistically 400hp is good, but reality is perception and emotion are far greater influences in buying a prestige vehicle than Lincoln give credit for.

Use a detuned Predator (650hp) and they could easily sell the Continental for at least double the current price. All high rollers will want it, plus they don't want to be seen in something with a "cheap" retail.

When Ford made the GT so exclusive and put hurdles in place to get one, people tripped over themselves to buy one.

Agree with the half-baked. Disagree with the solution. More HP might boost sales slightly, but even if 650HP was pricey and exclusive, it's not going to be a big draw. Continental's biggest problem is that it simply didn't look like a Continental to begin with. Now that the MKZ has the matching grille the Continental does not stand out nor LOOK exclusive. Adding big power won't improve the look without abandoning Lincoln-ness by plastering massive badges all over it.

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glyphics

· #50 · May 10, 2018

FloridaMatt said:
Agree with the half-baked. Disagree with the solution. More HP might boost sales slightly, but even if 650HP was pricey and exclusive, it's not going to be a big draw. Continental's biggest problem is that it simply didn't look like a Continental to begin with. Now that the MKZ has the matching grille the Continental does not stand out nor LOOK exclusive. Adding big power won't improve the look without abandoning Lincoln-ness by plastering massive badges all over it.

I agree. In all fairness, Falc'man was responding in agreement to my post #43.

True, adding horsepower to today's Conti would be an expensive investment with no payoff. Better to invest in a true flagship and let the chips fall where they may. It makes no sense to declare a half-baked placeholder a failure and then call it the reason to stop trying. Even Kia knows that.

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Falc'man

· #51 · May 13, 2018

FloridaMatt said:
Agree with the half-baked. Disagree with the solution. More HP might boost sales slightly, but even if 650HP was pricey and exclusive, it's not going to be a big draw. Continental's biggest problem is that it simply didn't look like a Continental to begin with. Now that the MKZ has the matching grille the Continental does not stand out nor LOOK exclusive. Adding big power won't improve the look without abandoning Lincoln-ness by plastering massive badges all over it.

How it looks is subjective therefore besides that what do you think is missing?

When people realise the power on offer is over 600hp, and that it's provided via a RWD platform, there's simply very little reason not to add it to the must-have list.

The current proportions are borderline RWD, on D6 it would be a dead set stunner.

Why do I propose that much power? Silly question when a) they're quite capable of it, and b) the competition has moved on from 550hp, so you can't rock up to the party with something outdated. Sensible? Of course not. Desirable? Ken oath!

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AM222

· #52 · May 29, 2018 (Edited)

3

How tall is the upcoming Aviator? It looks noticeably lower than the current gen Explorer.
My guess is it's probably as tall as an MKT.

I wonder if this is Ford is making its SUVs lower and more car-like because it's killing its traditional sedans.

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rmc523

· #53 · May 29, 2018

AM222 said:
How tall is the upcoming Aviator? It looks noticeably lower than the current gen Explorer.
My guess is it's probably as tall as an MKT.

I wonder if this is Ford is making its SUVs lower and more car-like because it's killing its traditional sedans.

It's taller than MKT. You realize MKT is low slung more like a wagon right?

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AM222

· #54 · May 29, 2018

rmc523 said:
It's taller than MKT. You realize MKT is low slung more like a wagon right?

Maybe not as low as the MKT but the upcoming Aviator still seems more low slung than the current Explorer SUV, that's what I was trying to say.

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rmc523

· #55 · May 29, 2018

AM222 said:
Maybe not as low as the MKT but the upcoming Aviator still seems more low slung than the current Explorer SUV, that's what I was trying to say.

I think it has a more sloping roofline than Explorer will.

Bloggin

· #56 · May 29, 2018

rmc523 said:
I think it has a more sloping roofline than Explorer will.

It's doubtful that Ford will invest into changing the roofline between the Aviator and Explorer. Just like what was done with the higher margin Expedition and Navigator.

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rmc523

· #57 · May 30, 2018

Bloggin said:
It's doubtful that Ford will invest into changing the roofline between the Aviator and Explorer. Just like what was done with the higher margin Expedition and Navigator.

Explorer and Aviator will share zero body panels, or a roofline. Just like Flex and MKT, MKZ and Fusion, MKC and Escape, Edge and Nautilus.

Expy/Navi are the exception, in that that's a common practice in that segment - GM triplets, Infiniti QX80/Nissan Armada, Toyota Land Cruiser/Lexus LX.

So you can be doubtful, but you'd be wrong.

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Bloggin

· #58 · May 30, 2018

rmc523 said:
Explorer and Aviator will share zero body panels, or a roofline. Just like Flex and MKT, MKZ and Fusion, MKC and Escape, Edge and Nautilus.

Expy/Navi are the exception, in that that's a common practice in that segment - GM triplets, Infiniti QX80/Nissan Armada, Toyota Land Cruiser/Lexus LX.

So you can be doubtful, but you'd be wrong.

That sounds good but we will have to see how that all works out in production form for both models.

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