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^
That's a bit of a stretch.
Aside from trucks and pony cars I see no need for RWD. If you want a luxury car it should have the best and newest technology and RWD doesn't offer that, you get far smaller interior dimensions in a RWD car than a FWD car that's a fact. Also what happens in the winter time? I will easily blast past all those silly BMWs in my AWD Edge but then again we don’t get much snow here but I do travel up to TN to visit family around the holidays and it never ceases to amaze me how many of those BMWs and Mercedes are on the side of the road.
 

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A sub ATS would be a terrible mistake. I am beginning to think the ATS was a mistake. I am beginning to think Cadillac's whole experiment with RWD that started 12 years ago was a mistake, and it should have a lineup consisting of the XTS, Escalade, and 3 crossovers.
 

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A sub ATS would be a terrible mistake. I am beginning to think the ATS was a mistake. I am beginning to think Cadillac's whole experiment with RWD that started 12 years ago was a mistake, and it should have a lineup consisting of the XTS, Escalade, and 3 crossovers.
hmm
...That^^^ sounds familiar ... sorta :angel
&
2 things:

WHAT!?! No ZTS?!?
&
now I wondering about a 4-seat (not 2+2) VeTteS / VeTteR
 

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^ Bigger flop, in terms of segment expectations and efforts applied......yeah, I can see that. Few expected the ELR to exceed, but many would expect the sub ATS to succeed - based on price.

Who knows though, if it looks great and is priced right, they can borrow all their sales right from Buick.
Which raises another question.
 

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Cadillac efforts have been worthy and world class. You don't change the mind of consumers overnight no matter how good the product is. Even with Toyotas past issues, they still sell more Camry's and Corolla's than anyone else in the segment because the quality has been ingrained into the American consumer mind. That mindset wasn't established overnight and will not be destroyed overnight. Cadillacs efforts will payoff eventually, they've gone about the cars the right way. The lesson I think that Lincoln has to learn also along with Cadillac is to compete with the big boys, you have to offer more and for a cheaper price just to be considered, you have to take the Hyundai route. The sales will eventully come along but you have to be prepared to accept that your profit will be smaller for about 10-15 years. Cadillac prices their vehicles like there at the big boys levels then throw incentives at it. The ATS and CTS has to offer more at every trim level versus the competition and be cheaper to succeed against MB/BMW/Audi/Lexus. You have to do more frequent updates of your vehicles, not waiting 4-5 years for a refresh and 6-7 years for a total redesign.

Cadillacs efforts are paying off in China and doing the same here slowly. I'll agree with Wings that Cadillac's problem here is that it competes with Buick for sales. Buick offers the same level of luxury inside as Cadillac but cheaper and it's not rwd.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
A sub ATS would be a terrible mistake. I am beginning to think the ATS was a mistake. I am beginning to think Cadillac's whole experiment with RWD that started 12 years ago was a mistake, and it should have a lineup consisting of the XTS, Escalade, and 3 crossovers.
The entire current Cadillac program is a big mistake. Exclusives and multiple RWD platforms, lack of Crossovers, too much money invested in a lone brand. The results? A big fail.
 

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I too think that a sub ats is not the right move. More crossovers are needed versus miniature sedans. BUT I also feel and to a certain extent know that the reason the ats is not doing that good is in NO correlation to it being rwd, and to think so beyond silly. Do the c class and 3 series not sell? They sure do, and it's because they offer many things the ats doesn't offer (brand cache and buyers wiling to spend on them). Oh and while fwd does have advantages, it will never I repeat never replace rwd in a proper luxury vehicle because fwd suffer fwd suffers too many inherent disadvantages. Having a fwd system that's set up like a rwd system will and can work when done properly a la audi, but a mundane fwd setup from a mainstream family sedan will have glaring flaws when put against top notch rwd architecture
 

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I too think that a sub ats is not the right move. More crossovers are needed versus miniature sedans. BUT I also feel and to a certain extent know that the reason the ats is not doing that good is in NO correlation to it being rwd, and to think so beyond silly. Do the c class and 3 series not sell? They sure do, and it's because they offer many things the ats doesn't offer (brand cache and buyers wiling to spend on them). Oh and while fwd does have advantages, it will never I repeat never replace rwd in a proper luxury vehicle because fwd suffers too many inherent disadvantages (unproven balance, weight, proportions). Having a fwd system that's set up like a rwd system will and can work when done properly a la audi, but a mundane fwd setup from a mainstream family sedan will have glaring flaws when put against top notch rwd architecture
 

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You can't ignore the new entry level in the luxury segment, sometimes you have to follow the competition especially if the market is going there with the sales expectations. Most likely those consumers will be brand loyal for life assuming they get great service and have very few problems with the cars. If GM feels the sameway as Lexus does that the Buick Regal can handle the below $30,000 market, then they shouldn't do it but if not, then they should go for it. The question will be how many consumers cross-shop the Regal with CLA/A3/2.
 
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