Ford Inside News banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,679 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
CARB gives Chevy Volt ULEV II status, misses SULEV II by a hair
Autoblog

by Jonathon Ramsey
Oct 29, 2010



The California Air Resources Board has given a green rating to the 2011 Chevrolet Volt, the grade atop the page being ULEV (Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle). That's below the SULEV and PZEV ratings of cars you might not expect to beat the Volt, such as the four-cylinder Honda Accord and Volkswagen Golf GTI 2.0T and Jetta TDI. Also on the list as being cleaner than the Volt are the Toyota Prius, Honda Insight and Honda CR-Z. Click past the break for some interesting comparative charts.

The issue is that CARB performs its testing with the engine running – it has no electric-power-only test. When the Volt's engine runs, it emits 1.3 g/km, which puts it 0.3 grams beyond the allowance for a SULEV vehicle. What's more, since it can't get the PZEV (Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle) rating of the Prius and Leaf, it can't get carpool lane stickers in California. One of the biggest boons of buying a green car, at least in California, is the extra time you get to enjoy your life because you can use the carpool lane and don't need to haul around Frank and Bob from sales in order to to it.


Full text at the link
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,679 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
This is pretty bad . . . but like they say, "its more car than electric" LOL . . .

"Its more [conventional] car than electric"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,028 Posts
OH OH... Wait a minute: An electric car that need premium gas. An electric car that have an engine that move the front wheels. An electric car that is less "green" than some gas powered cars. An electric car that produce more carbs emissions than a Honda Accord.????????????

Is this a good car, at all??? Really, is this an electric car??????

I think the Volt is an hybrid. A bad hybrid car. A bad and expensive and ugly hybrid car
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,900 Posts
this just shows you the wacko nature of california
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,679 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Ausrutherford and ndwariga blame California. How oblivious can one be? Did you see the charts? or does the Volt pollutes more in California?

When hybrids and non-hybrids alike have qualified for SULEV and PZEV for years its pretty pathetic that the Volt doesn't even get SULEV status and even though Autoblog says it missed SULEV II by a hair, one most add that that was some giant hair . . . 30% worse that the minimum qualifying emissions.

The Ford Focus sold in California has been qualifying as a PZEV since 2005.

Thank God for California (and New York)
 

·
The Spaminator
Joined
·
5,791 Posts
Ausrutherford and ndwariga blame California. How oblivious can one be? Did you see the charts? or does the Volt pollutes more in California?

When hybrids and non-hybrids alike have qualified for SULEV and PZEV for years its pretty pathetic that the Volt doesn't even get SULEV status and even though Autoblog says it missed SULEV II by a hair, one most add that that was some giant hair . . . 30% worse that the minimum qualifying emissions.

The Ford Focus sold in California has been qualifying as a PZEV since 2005.

Thank God for California (and New York)

The problem comes from that they dont test it in EV mode, but just when its using gas. Thats what is wrong with the test. It needs to take into the affect of 30-50 miles of being on electric. They need to update their testing fast before more come online in the league of the Volt...and that includes Ford.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,679 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
The problem comes from that they dont test it in EV mode, but just when its using gas. Thats what is wrong with the test. It needs to take into the affect of 30-50 miles of being on electric. They need to update their testing fast before more come online in the league of the Volt...and that includes Ford.
It is emissions they are testing, not fuel economy. What you are saying is as if your local water utility was asking the quality of the water to be tested while the faucet is shut. Doesn't make much sense, does it?

Cars like the Golf GTi 2.0T or the Ford Focus have achieved the PZEV qualification (the Focus since 2003, not 2005 as I stated in my previous post) with their engines on, so has the Prius. Why should they have a different standard for the Volt? especially now that we know that the gas engine is used not only to charge the battery pack but also to move the car in some instances.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
220 Posts
Two things...I don't think California's standards know how to adequately test or qualify plug-in hybrids. That being said, I think this is a pretty big oversight on GM's part, not anticipating this. Unfortunately, I think the eligibility for a tax break and carpool sticker will influence many people's purchasing decisions. GM needs to address this ASAP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,679 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Two things...I don't think California's standards know how to adequately test or qualify plug-in hybrids. That being said, I think this is a pretty big oversight on GM's part, not anticipating this. Unfortunately, I think the eligibility for a tax break and carpool sticker will influence many people's purchasing decisions. GM needs to address this ASAP.
Those are California's own standards and I really don't know what the difference would be between a plug in hybrid and a regular hybrid as these tests are for the emissions of the gas engines and have nothing to do about how or when the car is charged. By the way, the CA standards are being adopted by NY, MA and other states in the north east.

I think that the Volt is still eligible for HOV lanes stickers and the such, ironically if I am correct that would allow it to go faster and reach those 75 mph in which the gas engine will gear up and move the car.

Again cars like the GTi and the Focus have been PZEV for almost a decade, why can't the Volt?

Is very telling how people talk about the Volt as a hybrid and not as an EV anymore.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,933 Posts
Thanks Simon, I was just thinking about that... everyone is saying oh its not all the time.. but HEY if youre on the highway then guess what.. IT IS ALL THE TIME
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,679 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I just think it's 'funny' that the way the rules are set up that the Volt can't get a PZEV rating yet
cuz
a Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle is EXACTLY what the Volt is
I know, Too bad its gas engine is stinkier than it should. And definitely more than a 2003 2.0 Duractec as found in the Ford Focus, a PZEV ever since.
Thanks Simon, I was just thinking about that... everyone is saying oh its not all the time.. but HEY if youre on the highway then guess what.. IT IS ALL THE TIME
LOL, right. And guess what . . . . the famous range extender will pollute.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
204 Posts
It is emissions they are testing, not fuel economy. What you are saying is as if your local water utility was asking the quality of the water to be tested while the faucet is shut. Doesn't make much sense, does it?

Cars like the Golf GTi 2.0T or the Ford Focus have achieved the PZEV qualification (the Focus since 2003, not 2005 as I stated in my previous post) with their engines on, so has the Prius. Why should they have a different standard for the Volt? especially now that we know that the gas engine is used not only to charge the battery pack but also to move the car in some instances.
Yea,
But wouldn't the superior gas mileage the Volt gets compared to these cars pretty much cancel out the slight advantage they have on the Volt in the pollutant scores? I mean the fact that the Volt can go 25-50 miles on just electricty has to make it cleaner then those cars most of the time...

Or am I missing something ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
388 Posts
Yeah, you are missing the fact that GM is marketing this car as your do everything car. This means, if you are running on the freeway, you will not be an "electric" car. Thus, you are emitting just like any other ICE, or, in the Volts case, more than many ICE's.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. This is a gross oversight by GM. They were so busy worrying about it being an electric car with a range extender, that they forgot about the range extend part.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,966 Posts
There is no doubt that being able to go up to 50 miles on a charge is a great thing.
It is all the negatives that hurt GM.

They approached this completely wrong.
They were wrong to give so many details so early, they should have been secretive.
They were wrong to predict 230 mpg, cuz it bit them in the ass.

GM was so excited to let the world know they finally have a real hybrid (sorry, this is little more than a hybrid), that they blew their wad and the media is now there examining the dress.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,679 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Yea,
But wouldn't the superior gas mileage the Volt gets compared to these cars pretty much cancel out the slight advantage they have on the Volt in the pollutant scores? I mean the fact that the Volt can go 25-50 miles on just electricty has to make it cleaner then those cars most of the time...

Or am I missing something ?
( . . . you forgot to boldface the Prius)

I guess we are going to have to wait for the EPA numbers for the Volt to know how superior these numbers are. The Volt has been a let down after a let down.

But why would you mix CARB status with gas millage? A song can have beautiful music and horrible lyrics, and vice versa. And why should be even be talking about gas millage for an EV anyway?

I don't think its you, it is GM who is missing thing after thing after thing.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top