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Mercury C557
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Discussion Starter #22 (Edited)
3 parts:
-- Cadillac Plug-Ins, Not BEVS
-- super-aero Cuv from Mission:2020, &
-- something completely different than a GMI post today
=
Could an electrified Lincoln be a crossover Between a crossover & a swoopy sedan?





thinking these might best fall into tweener categories
-- a 2½ row, ie NOT a bus/caravan-like adult capable last row to prevent a van-like appearance/air-brick, &
-- a 1½ row with only 'occasional/short-trip use' backseat...oh! guess that's called a '2+2'
= whitespace


& re: the FocusBEV with a $10k drivetrain VS hydrogen
Quote: Mirai costs $57,000 as it is. That's roughly a $40,000 price increase over a Corolla.

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I'm willing to wait on Ford and Lincoln to deliver a range extending EV that combines the benefits of both technologies in an attainable and desirable package. I think the closest is the VOLT but it's far from a Lincoln.
 

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Mercury C557
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Discussion Starter #24 (Edited)
still
ranting = Porsche's fault!
...Take a Z** with... :toetap:
...It's been too long since Ford updated anything related to their electrification offerings...
...Lincoln, along with Ford in general, doesn't take electrification seriously...
Porsche.com
Cayenne S E-Hybrid: tech specs

Aluminum engine block and cylinder heads
Wet-sump lubrication
Direct Fuel Injection (DFI)
Continuous intake and outlet camshaft control
Cylinder-specific knock control
Returnless fuel system
Hydraulic valve adjustment
MED 17 engine management system
On-board diagnostics for monitoring emission control system
Stereo Lambda control circuits
Electronic throttle
Vehicle electrical system recuperation
Brake energy recovery
Variable deceleration fuel cutoff
Supercharger
Auto Start Stop function
Parallel Full Hybrid: 3.0 Liter supercharged V6 and Electric Motor
Combustion Engine: 333 hp @ 5500 - 6500 rpm
Combustion Engine: 325 lb.-ft. @ 3000 - 5250 rpm
Electric Motor: 95 hp @ 2200-2600 rpm
Electric Motor: 229 lb. - ft. @ <1700 rpm
Max. power (parallel full hybrid) at rpm: 416 hp at 5500 rpm
Max. torque (parallel full hybrid) at rpm: 435 lb.-ft. at 1250 - 4000 rpm

Permanent all-wheel drive (Torsen)
Eight-speed Tiptronic S with Porsche Hill Holder and shift on the move

.MKZenergi with *AS*IS* FusionEnergi drivetrain EXCEPT for software/controls(/SETTINGS?)
.7.6 kWh battery (Porsche isn't telling afaik)
.141+(88kw/118hp)=251.7hp = 97% of Total ...LIKE PORSCHE

.NOT the 72½% of Fusion's 188hp

IF Porsche pulled the same [email protected],
their Cayenne-S-H would only make 310hp


repeat/ranting:
Combustion Engine: 333 hp Electric Motor: 95 hp Total Output: 416 hp
97% of Total



also
Porsche Traction Management (PTM)
PTM on the Cayenne Diesel and Cayenne S E-Hybrid features a permanent all-wheel drive system with self-locking center differential. This provides a standard torque split of 60% to the rear and 40% to the front. If one of the wheels is about to lose grip, the self-locking center differential transmits the torque to the axle offering the highest level of traction. Variable distribution of engine torque to the rear wheels also enhances steering precision and driving dynamics.
&
found it:
High-voltage battery: 10.8 kWh

Charging time*: approx. 2.7 hrs with 3.6 kW on-board charger/approx. 1.3 hrs with 7.2 kW on-board charger
Recuperative braking system
E-Charge and E-Power buttons


edit honorable (future) mention: Mission E
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Mercury C557
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Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)
crossreference: crimmas wishlists

All new cars to be zero emissions vehicles by 2050
AutoExpress.co.UK.com

8 Dec, 2015 11:00am Martin Saarinen


Every single new car sold in the UK is likely to be a zero-emissions vehicle by 2050, according to the latest agreement signed by the Government.

The UK was among the 13 international members of the Zero Emissions Vehicle Alliance during the Paris conference on climate change to sign a commitment to promote cleaner motoring and slash transport emissions...

...Other countries and states who also signed the agreement include The Netherlands, Germany, Norway and one of the leading US states on sustainability, California...

- - - - - - -

I'm starting to ponder the LincStang starting with BEV/plug-in versions!
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I really hope that Ford's NG Architectures (either the CD6 and/or the new C3) are built with serious focus on electrification packaging and performance.

Ford's struggles in the hybrid space have often came to packaging and now with the very efficient, though not electrified Skyactiv from Mazda, the dual-motor-plugin ready SPA from Volvo, the plugin-ready MQB from VW, and the "It launched under a Prius" TNG from Toyota ...

Between 2018 and 2022, Ford will reveal the architecture(s) that will underpin _every_unitbody_car_they_sell (ok save the Figo and other last-gen cars). I understand why Ford is being quiet, for now. Good on them for keeping a lid on things. However, that new architecture / those new architectures better be ready to battle some great new efforts. I hope Ford is ready (I am sure they are ready, but it's an anxious time nonetheless).

The types of cars Ford and Lincoln will build on these architectures / this architecture is secondary. But the architecte(s) need to be fantastic bits of kit. Everything from C1 to CD4 to D4 is outdated, and it shows. Ford cannot release an also-ran in the next wave.
 

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Mercury C557
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Discussion Starter #27
cherry-picking from a 2016 forecast article...

2016 CarAdvice Year Ahead
Predictions for the next 12 months of the automotive world

CarAdvice.com.AU
...
Tim Beismann, New Cars Editor

2016 will be the year…
2016 will be the year… Of the plug-in hybrid.

The number of range-extenders available in Australia will more than double in 2016, and it will be the luxury brands leading the, err, charge. The BMW i3 and i8 models will be joined by the 330e and the X5 xDrive40e in the second quarter of the year, around the same time as Mercedes-Benz flicks the switch on the C-Class, S-Class and GLE Plug-In Hybrid trio. German rival Audi will follow towards the end of 2016 with the Q7 e-tron, though not before the Volvo XC90 T8 arrives in either Q2 or Q3. The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV will get a facelift to match the rest of the range around the middle of the year, and there’s a small chance Hyundai’s new Ioniq could get a power socket to join the regular hybrid version that’s due in the third quarter. With diesel increasingly on the nose (thanks to Volkswagen) and electric power cooler than ever (thanks to Tesla), 2016 could be the year plug-in hybrids start to get traction on local roads.
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^.....

Ford: Fusion Energi, C-MAX Energi, Focus Electric and possibly a New Taurus Energi.

Lincoln: it's about time for a 2017 MKZ Energi and if we get a Taurus Energi, we should get a Continental Energi. Hopefully NAIAS or CES offers details of a new AWD hybrid system, that enables Edge and Escape to go hybrid.

I say this because China is suffering badly with poor air quality, and Lincoln really need to get plug-in vehicles in the dealerships to benefit from the huge Chinese government incentives.

Expecting big news from Ford about electrified vehicles any day now.....
 

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FlatRock is not capable of building EV products, just FYI.
YET.............

With Ford's plan to shift out next gen Focus and C-Max from MAP which is currently the electrification center, to another 'undisclosed' plant, along with the New Hybrid to be built at a n undisclosed plant, it may either be Flat Rock or Hermosillo. Both have room for expansion, but Flat Rock has both Fusion/MKZ, Continental/Taurus platforms.

Then with the upcoming new FWD, RWD and AWD hybrid drivetrains coming, which should fit Edge/MKX in Canada, Escape/Focus, F-150/Expedition/Navigator in the US, Ford will need to invest in electrification manufacturing in multiple factories. Which is where I think some of the billions of dollars in investments in electrification is going.

Electrifying multiple platforms would require electrification manufacturing to happen in multiple plants.

It will be interesting to see how this all works out........
 

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Mercury C557
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Discussion Starter #31
YET.............
:thumb:

...but Flat Rock has both Fusion(FOR NOW)/MKZ(maybe), Continental(YUP)/Taurus(maybe) platforms...
AND *STANGS
Ooooooo,
I meant that as the old DOS wildcard but just realized before hitting [submit]
that it could be pronounced
"StarStang"


...F-150/Expedition/Navigator in the US, Ford will need to invest in electrification manufacturing in multiple factories...
do you remember if an official suit ever said Exped/Navi & "electrify" in the same breath?
OR
ditto for F-series - - thought (Mr.Fields?) only said "hybrid" < which doesn't Hafta mean electro (or petrol)

...'undisclosed' plant...
...an undisclosed plant...
...upcoming new FWD, RWD and AWD hybrid drivetrains coming, which should fit Edge/MKX in Canada, Escape/Focus...in the US...
...electrification manufacturing in multiple factories...
...Electrifying multiple platforms would require electrification manufacturing to happen in multiple plants.

It will be interesting to see how this all works out...
I really oughta know (since I'm in spitting distance of the Gigafactory - if the wind is right) but
Whose batteries is FoMoCo using-vs-will-use
& WHERE are they made?



:wink2: "UDCP" for undisclosed plant(s)
 

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^.....Ford hybrid and plug-in hybrid batteries are made by Panasonic(same as Tesla). Focus Electric pack uses LG Chem batteries. At least that's the case for 2016.

Back to the MKZ Energi....it's got new competition launching next year in the US:


http://insideevs.com/mercedes-benz-c350-fall-us-launch-delayed-2016/

Here is a recap of the Mercedes-Benz C350e specs:

Combined power output of 275 hp, 443 lb-ft of torque
Electric range of 18.6 miles (estimated)
Five transmission modes: Individual, Sport, Sport+, Comfort and Economy
Four engine modes: Hybrid, E-Mode, E-Save and Charge
AIRMATIC air suspension
Energy recuperation during braking and coasting
Central display unit with optional touchpad
Available Head-Up Display
Available LED headlamps
Standard safety technologies including ATTENTION ASSIST and COLLISION PREVENTION ASSIST PLUS
 

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Mercury C557
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Discussion Starter #33
a real world example...

Cheers&Gears forum
Quote originally posted by "dfelt", Editor/Reporter
Posted Today, 11:02 AM
Since October, the battery industry is changing at a pace unseen by other technologies.

In October, this was the best battery pack I could get:
200 mile battery pack
48V, 400Ah LiFePo4 Lithium Prismatic cells with bus bars, bolts and washers will cost $28,032.00

Now less than 3 months later I can get the following:
400 mile battery pack
48V, 800Ah LiFePo4 package for $20,576.00

Pretty amazing, the range is an estimate on using a Warp 9 electric motor.

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Aftermarket electrical conversion of IC engine cars is an interesting idea. But given the advant of cars like the Leaf, Bolt, and (yes) Tesla, it'll probably never get beyond niche stuff.
 

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Mercury C557
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Discussion Starter #35
video &
"Superior electric cars are on their way, and they could begin to wreck oil markets within a decade"

Bloomberg

by Tom Randall - February 24, 2016


...The oil price crash that started in 2014 was caused by a glut of unwanted oil, as producers started cranking out about 2 million barrels a day more than the market supported. Nobody saw it coming, despite the massively expanding oil fields across North America. The question is: How soon could electric vehicles trigger a similar oil glut by reducing demand by the same 2 million barrels?

That's the subject of the first installment of Bloomberg’s new animated web series Sooner Than You Think, which examines some of the biggest transformations in human history that haven’t happened quite yet. Tomorrow, analysts at Bloomberg New Energy Finance will weigh in with a comprehensive analysis of where the electric car industry is headed.

Even amid low gasoline prices last year, electric car sales jumped 60 percent worldwide. If that level of growth continues, the crash-triggering benchmark of 2 million barrels of reduced demand could come as early as 2023. That's a crisis. The timing of new technologies is difficult to predict, but it may not be long before it becomes impossible to ignore.
 

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Mercury C557
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Discussion Starter #36
John McElroy earned his stripes for the whole year imho
with his comment starting just past 28:45


basically
(don't feel up to transcribing)
Tesla & GM have used up about half of their 200k vehicles that get the full $7½K from the gov'mint
&
John speculates that FLincoMoCo is waiting for the competitors new models to burn thru the remainder (faster)
THEN
bring out serious electro'd vehicles of their own THAT WILL HAVE A free $7500 ADVANTAGE
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Will better, cheaper EVs really crash the oil market soon?


As the many, many analysts around the media world prove every day, you simply can't go wrong when you predict the future. Sure, you can be wrong, but it seems like no matter how factually incorrect you might be about the future, you will always find a place at the media table. Of course, I don't know what will happen in the next decade, either, so look who's talking. With all that in mind, I wanted to share a prediction that found purchase in Bloomberg this week: namely, that electric cars will cause the next oil crisis.

"The 2020s will be the decade of the electric car." - Tom Randall

On the one hand, this article sounds at times wistfully and wonderfully optimistic. The gist is that, thanks to rapid and unexplored (by the oil market, anyway) advances in battery technology, plug-in vehicles first become comparable in cost and then cheaper than today's gas cars. That's when things get real. The author, Tom Randall, says that, "the 2020s will be the decade of the electric car" and that, "thirty-five percent of new cars worldwide will have a plug," by 2040. As you may remember, OPEC strongly disagrees.

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/02/26/cheaper-evs-crash-oil-market-soon/
 

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^.....I think as plug-in hybrids offer 30 - 50 EV miles, and EVs have 200+ miles as a starting point, most everyone will want their new vehicle to have a plug.

Then there are the used sub 100 mile EVs that will begin to flood the market(upgrades to 200+ mile EVs), that are well suited for second cars, student cars, etc. Again...second generation with no oil and not replaced with gasoline vehicles.

Plug-in vehicles are about to flood the market in a big way over the next few years.
 

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Mercury C557
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Discussion Starter #39
just saw on TV'newws' that Airbus is working on a HYBRID airplane for 2030
will use 'silent' electric motors for takeoff
so
if batteries have a Chance of getting so much lighter(&smaller?) by then
then
all vehicles other than bargain-basement / trucks (/ performance?) should be primarily electro by then...


...if true :angel
 

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Mercury C557
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Discussion Starter #40
^and...

the thought (rant) occurs to me,
Largely due to my Tesla "Federal Tax Credit" post just now,
that
1, GM is doing Everything WRONG = (poorly)selling hodgepodge electros = Bad Reputation°°
2, Tesla is doing almost everything RIGHT = selling high-priced electros = Best Reputation°°
&
3. what does this say about FoMoCo?** and
4. do the Energis get (& therefor USE UP) the full $7500 rebate?
or WORSE
- WASTE the rebate by counting as a Sale but not getting the full amount for the buyers?


°° perceived industry relevance consumer relevance necessarily, or vice-versa
** I'm tempted to believe its a wickedly-clever Plan, *IF* only the FocusBEV counts...
...otherwise, imho they might be worse than GM
 
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